Detroit council endorses move to regional transit

[MSUguy]

Detroit -- The Detroit City Council today passed a resolution to support regional mass transit.
The council, by a 6-3 vote, urged the creation of a Regional Transit Authority. Some see it as the first move toward starting the conversation on finding a dedicated source for mass transit in the region.
"
It's a huge step in the final outcome because Detroit can't fund light rail or a regional system [[alone)," Council President Pro Tem Gary Brown said. "The money has to come from the region. This is the first step in getting the region talking about getting the funding in Michigan." Wayne and Macomb counties have passed similar measures, Brown said. Council members JoAnn Watson, Brenda Jones and Kwame Kenyatta opposed the resolution.

"I wholeheartedly support the spirit of the resolution to finally move decidedly toward the establishment of a regional transit system for the Metro Detroit region," Kenyatta said in a released statement. "The need has never been more necessary to support the 33 [[percent) of Detroit residents who must secure transpiration without access to a vehicle of their own.
"[[But) I could not ignore the gaping holes...to the essential elements covering governance and funding."


From The Detroit News: http://detnews.com/article/20110927/...#ixzz1ZVaIrfZD

[Detroit Stylin]

Detroit -- The Detroit City Council today passed a resolution to support regional mass transit.
The council, by a 6-3 vote, urged the creation of a Regional Transit Authority. Some see it as the first move toward starting the conversation on finding a dedicated source for mass transit in the region.
"
It's a huge step in the final outcome because Detroit can't fund light rail or a regional system [[alone)," Council President Pro Tem Gary Brown said. "The money has to come from the region. This is the first step in getting the region talking about getting the funding in Michigan." Wayne and Macomb counties have passed similar measures, Brown said. Council members JoAnn Watson, Brenda Jones and Kwame Kenyatta opposed the resolution.

"I wholeheartedly support the spirit of the resolution to finally move decidedly toward the establishment of a regional transit system for the Metro Detroit region," Kenyatta said in a released statement. "The need has never been more necessary to support the 33 [[percent) of Detroit residents who must secure transpiration without access to a vehicle of their own.
"[[But) I could not ignore the gaping holes...to the essential elements covering governance and funding."


From The Detroit News: http://detnews.com/article/20110927/...#ixzz1ZVaIrfZD

Probably THE most intelligent thing that Council has done in my lifetime...

[Scottathew]

This is great news.

Regional mass transit will both help folks that cannot afford a car, and also help enable folks to use more environmentally friendly transit options.

I've been shocked at work to find out how many of my co-workers take the bus in. Granted it's not a high percentage, but it's way more than what I thought it would be. Folk that make plenty of money, but choose to take the bus in because they can read while the travel in, it's cheaper, and it's good for the environment.

[esp1986]

Now the next problem... funding it.

[animatedmartian]

Now the next problem... funding it.

Isn't whatever isn't covered by private money covered by federal grants? I don't know the exact numbers but if the whole region pays for it, I don't expect it'd be that hard to fund.

Unless you mean that the money won't somehow get to where it's supposed to go because of certain people's past history with financial mismanagement.

[Detroitej72]

I'm cautiously optimistic that we may actually see this plan come to bear fruit.

[Dexlin]

I like that the council has finally put their support behind this, but this is still just a symbolic resolution. What is holding this up is that the so-called leadership of Oakland County doesn't want any additional taxes, even if its spread out over the three counties. This seems like a no-brainer; this isn't rocket science, especially if places like Dallas and Salt Lake City can get this stuff accomplished. I mean, Dallas's system, for instance, levy's a really simple 1% sales tax to pay to run the system. It's also an opt in done by municipality, though, I'd much rather we go all in with counties to make sure we don't build some substandard system destined to fail.

The money for the capital costs [[i.e. to build this first line) are largely in place or will be in place, but the feds aren't going to go any further unless they are dealing with a regional transit authority just like in just about every other major city in the country. BTW, what is this "worry" about who'll manage the money? That's what a regional authority is; every county gets a say. It'd be no different than the successful regional authority set up to run Cobo.

[Hypestyles]

I guess we'll see what happens.. or what doesn't happen..
the objections were semi predictable.. the undercurrent of assumption is that "they" [[e.g., Oakland exec, Macomb exec. Wayne Co. exec) will "take" whatever income comes into play and disburse it primarily in suburban locales..
..people either want a regional system where Detroit interests will have a vote[[s) or they don't..
unfortunately the hardline afrocentrics tend to see the city bus service as a 'black-owned business' by cultural default and regardless of the benefit for urban detroit residents of a region-wide-accessible system, regionalizing its ownership/management is looked on as a "sellout" move..
By this time next year, I hope a real Regional Transit Management council is in place, but...

[Dexlin]

I guess we'll see what happens.. or what doesn't happen..
the objections were semi predictable.. the undercurrent of assumption is that "they" [[e.g., Oakland exec, Macomb exec. Wayne Co. exec) will "take" whatever income comes into play and disburse it primarily in suburban locales..
..people either want a regional system where Detroit interests will have a vote[[s) or they don't..
unfortunately the hardline afrocentrics tend to see the city bus service as a 'black-owned business' by cultural default and regardless of the benefit for urban detroit residents of a region-wide-accessible system, regionalizing its ownership/management is looked on as a "sellout" move..
By this time next year, I hope a real Regional Transit Management council is in place, but...

That is a very odd thing to focus on when this article was about the Detroit City Council, as a body, voting in favor of proceeding with the development of a regional authority. The Detroit City Council is not holding this up, so why are you even going on about afro-centrism? Seems to me that it's Oakland County holding this thing up if you've been following the issue [[i.e. Macomb has stated a desire on more than one occassion that they want to be included in any new regional transit system). Again, the city council, as a body, also ended up voting in favor of forming a regional authority on Cobo.

[antongast]

I mean, Dallas's system, for instance, levy's a really simple 1% sales tax to pay to run the system.

Something like that would be the ideal solution, IMO. The issue, I believe, is that Michigan law doesn't allow any local entity to charge a sales tax beyond what the state already charges. I would love to see, for instance, a 7% sales tax within the tri-county area, of which the additional 1% went straight to the regional authority to cover its operating costs, but I think that would require an action by the state legislature beyond simply creating a transit authority [[and yes, I did just use "action" and "state legislature" in the same sentence, I'm trying to be optimistic here).

[Vox]

Something like that would be the ideal solution, IMO. The issue, I believe, is that Michigan law doesn't allow any local entity to charge a sales tax beyond what the state already charges. I would love to see, for instance, a 7% sales tax within the tri-county area, of which the additional 1% went straight to the regional authority to cover its operating costs, but I think that would require an action by the state legislature beyond simply creating a transit authority [[and yes, I did just use "action" and "state legislature" in the same sentence, I'm trying to be optimistic here).

So if this one percent solution gets passed, will the other transit taxes be phased out?

You will note that this is a TRANSIT authority. That means busses as well as the stupid train system.
.

[antongast]

So if this one percent solution gets passed, will the other taxes be phased out?

You mean the SMART millages? I would think so. To be fair, I just got the 1% number from the post I quoted about Dallas, and I haven't personally run the numbers on how much revenue a 1% sales tax in metro Detroit would produce. But even if the eventual sales tax was a bit higher or lower than 1%, I can't see any logical reason for having a sales tax plus the existing patchwork of millages.

[antongast]

You will note that this is a TRANSIT authority. That means busses as well as the stupid train system.

Indeed. That's because they're not separate systems. You use buses where it makes sense to have buses, and stupid trains where it makes sense to have stupid trains, and the end result, if it's done correctly, is that people in one part of town who want to get to another part of town have an efficient and reliable [[and stupid) means of doing so. The governing/funding structure is a separate issue from which modes go where.

[Dexlin]

Something like that would be the ideal solution, IMO. The issue, I believe, is that Michigan law doesn't allow any local entity to charge a sales tax beyond what the state already charges. I would love to see, for instance, a 7% sales tax within the tri-county area, of which the additional 1% went straight to the regional authority to cover its operating costs, but I think that would require an action by the state legislature beyond simply creating a transit authority [[and yes, I did just use "action" and "state legislature" in the same sentence, I'm trying to be optimistic here).

I was just using the sales tax as an example of how Dallas does it, but Michigan could always work within our existing system and fund the authority with the hotel and liquor taxes like they do for Cobo, though, I think that's far more unreliable than a sales tax. You could also do it through a millage, but that would be an unpredictable and unreliable funding source, too, by subjecting the authority to the whims of the voters every time the millage came up.

It's really sad that we're back to this point. We actually had a regional transit authority approved in the last days of the Engler administration by the legislature, and it's well documented on his very last day in office he vetoed the creation of the authority out of political spite. I forgot what initiative or proposal the legislature had stopped him on, but I remember that DARTA [[the Detroit Area Regional Transit Authority) was killed for little other reason than political payback.

[iheartthed]

If they scrap the millages in favor of something like a sales tax increase then it would make it impossible for random communities to opt out...

[HistoryNotHisStory]

The City of Detroit and SMART has no choice.

The Feds inherently imlied that will stop funding if they do not regionalize.

[Dexlin]

Just did a bit more research. It seems I was partially wrong about something. The Oakland County Commission actually did pass resolution [[a bipartisan one, at that), last week, calling for the implementation of of a regional transit authority. That said, I'm still under the impression that the executive's office [[i.e. L. Brooks Patterson) is ambivalent about this issue, at best, and at worst, still pretty hostile to the idea.

In fact, it seems that every major county commission that would [[or could) be involved has passed a resolution supporting this or will very soon. That includes the Detroit City Council, the Oakland County Commission, the Macomb County Commission [[the executive's office has also been pretty favorable to the idea), and the Washtenaw County Commission. The Wayne and St. Clair county commissions are expected to pass resolutions very soon, though, I'm not sure what Wayne County's executive office's [[Bob Ficano) position on this is, though, I'd imagine he'd be fully behind this.

[corktownyuppie]

Regional transit is an inevitability here in Metro Detroit. The demographic shifts are moving in that direction, as older die-hards are moving out of power and a younger electorate is wondering WTF we've been waiting 3 decades for. You have relationships crossing county lines that are civil and workable, even if they're tense at times. The population shifts have the inner ring suburbs taking on a more lower-income electorate who are more likely to see the value in public transportation.

The question is not "Will it happen?", rather "How long will it take?". I think an optimist would say 5 years and you'll see regional transit. 10 to be conservative. IMHO.

[professorscott]

JI'm still under the impression that the executive's office [[i.e. L. Brooks Patterson) is ambivalent about this issue, at best, and at worst, still pretty hostile to the idea.

Not at all true. The last time the state legislature got pretty far toward passing an RTA bill - what was it, two or three years back - Mr. Patterson's deputy executive, Jerry Poisson, wrote a very detailed critique of the legislation. It was very well thought out and well written, and my recollection of the essence of it is "we aren't opposed to the idea of a regional transit authority, but we are opposed to many of the specific details of this particular implementation of it."

I haven't spoken with Mr. Patterson about this in a few years, and I haven't had the chance to talk about it with Mr. Poisson at all, though I'd like to. But I think Oakland County's overriding concern has been with the cost and with who would pay. Specifically, because Oakland County has more money than the others but fewer transit-dependent people, they were concerned they would be putting more money into any kind of system than their people would get from it, relative to the rest of the region. This is a legitimate concern and one I think that needs to be addressed to some extent.

[corktownyuppie]

Specifically, because Oakland County has more money than the others but fewer transit-dependent people, they were concerned they would be putting more money into any kind of system than their people would get from it, relative to the rest of the region. This is a legitimate concern and one I think that needs to be addressed to some extent

I agree. And, to the likely dismay of many, the argument for regional transportation needs to be delivered in terms of how Oakland County will benefit, given their disproportionate contribution to the system. This may mean they have more control, it may mean their contractors will get more of the work, it may mean that some decisions will need to be made to benefit Oakland County in proportion to how much they support.

It reminds me of a convo here on DYes where a writer was lamenting about how major philanthropists wanted to have influence on how the money was spent, complaining that they should just give and then leave well enough alone.

We will need to eliminate [[or at least silence) that faction if we're ever going to get cooperation. On the flipside, the O.C. will also need to recognize that it's not worth keeping us in the stone age compare to other metro areas just because they can't get every decision to go their way.

Hopefully we'll see Cobo Hall has a testament to how regional cooperation could work...then maybe the political landscape will shift just enough for all the counties and players to find enough common ground to push it through.

[Dexlin]

Not at all true.

How is what I said not true at all? How can you be for the idea, but be critical of anything that would pay for it? The council that was held on Friday or Saturday featured one of the Oakland County representatives basically saying that he supports the idea of an rta...as long as it doesn't mean any additional taxation. That's not support. That's not being intellectually honest. The counties are going to have to pay more for transit than they do now...all of them. Period. Metro Detroit spends the lowest of any major metropolitan area in the country on mass transit. You can't say you're support this and then turn around and deride the only option for getting it done. How convenient a position to have and hide behind, because it basically means nothing gets done.

Patterson's demeanor and style may have softened over the years, but he's as ideologically rigid as he ever. Now instead of scowling at your when he tells you to 'eff of, he does it with a grandpa's smile. The result isn't any different even if the style is.