21,000 Detroiters losing welfare benefits

[Searay215]

This is terrible news at a time when jobs are hard to get for anyone, much less someone who may be down and out. Thanks Snyder!!!

While I agree there should be limits, now is not the time to impliment this. I hope law enforcement it taking note, because I feel crime will increase.....People need to feed their families and will do just about anything to do that.

http://www.detnews.com/article/20110...lfare-benefits

What are your reactions?

[Signman]

My heart freaking bleeds.

[Lowell]

Someone has to pay for the business tax cuts. Merry Early Christmas.

Much of this cost that will result from the cut-offs will be borne by the communities where these people reside. So the tax cuts are really tax shifts.

[sycloneman]

UGH..I had a response all typed out and somehow it got lost. Simply put the program is supposed to be a short term ASSISTANCE program, not a long term INCOME program. I hope that it helps the people who truely depend on it for short term needs but it's a hard pill to swallow when I hear about people who get a monthly check from the government, supplied by hard earned tax dollars that come from MY check, who have been collecting for 10 years or MORE!!! I know times are tough but it has to be done. If we don't have the money to do it then we simply can't do it anymore.

Just like the taxing of pensions, we were in the minority of states who did not do this; we were also the in the minority of states that did not have a limit on cash assistance. I think it's fair and about time.

To those whose benefits will be cut and who are looking for another way to make ends meet, I pray for you. I hope you can figure something out. To those who "don't know what to do once they get their letters" and who have been collecting checks for 6, 8, 10 years or more and who have not tried to make it on their own; get a paper and start looking for a job. There are jobs out there. I work at a law firm and do alright, but am about to take a second job just to make ends meet.

[majohnson]

I think more notice should have been given.
Although I admit partaking of the program is notice to get a job when possible.

[aj3647]

.People need to feed their families and will do just about anything to do that.

NOBODY needs to rob or steal to feed their family...NOBODY. Food stamps is an entirely separate program from welfare and there is no benefit cap on food stamps.

[kryptonite]

Welfare is a conflicting concept. When I was about four years old my family went on welfare briefly.

Later when I was a teenager I worked as a dishwasher at a suburban restaurant in Akron, OH. Three of the waitresses discussed in detail one night that if they wanted to go on welfare they would move to Detroit where the benefits were so generous.

And as a 30-something I remember being one of the few working adults on my block on the east side of Detroit. My neighbors were young-ish and healthy, there were no disabled or addicted people on public assistance on the block. No more than seven or eight of us on the block had jobs. The other houses were largely inhabited by individuals on welfare or generations of a single family all on welfare.

It was always meant to be a temporary program. As Bill Clinton said during his campaign "Welfare was never meant to be a legacy passed down from generation to generation". [[at least I believe Bill made that comment). In reality welfare has become just that in large cities and rural areas - a legacy. It cannot be supported when declining numbers of taxpayers are working and responsible for the support of those that are not.

Michigan and the country are out of comfortable choices to be made in dealing with ten years of economic hard times.

[313WX]

Yeah, so what plan does Snyder has to provide these people with jobs, or [[to play the angel's advocate) provide these people with transpotration to the few McJobs out there. A Wendy's and Belle Tire hiring on 23 mile and Van Dyke does nothing to help the Detroiters who are hardest hit by these austerity measures.

[Johnnny5]

Right policy, but really bad timing. The cold weather is just a few weeks away and many of those affected are going to end up on the streets.

Snyder and his "Business friendly" cronies are using this recession to force changes that at other times would not be accepted by the populace. The working class fought for decades to get some of these social benefits, but in less than a year Snyder has reduced or eliminated many of them. Taxing pensions, reducing unemployment benefits, strangling organized labor and at the same time reducing the taxes on corporations and not asking for any sacrifices from the wealthiest among us.

I will add that without Granholm's 2 terms of incompetence Michigan never would have been in the position to elect someone like Snyder. .

[SWMAP]

They will have to move. This is not as hard as it sounds. It already happens a lot within the confines of the City where there is tremendous movement. When I have bad neighbors on the SW side I pretty much know they are renters and I can console myself that they will move withing the year. That's pretty much my experience.
One of the problems that the DPS experiences is that so many of the children are so mobile. Many, many children in the DPS population move from school to school several times during the year, as the family situation changes, as better or cheaper housing becomes available.

Is this hard? Yes! But people can do it. People moved to Detroit for the jobs generations ago. If there are no jobs now, people will have to move.

[DetroitPole]

Yeah, so what plan does Snyder has to provide these people with jobs, or [[to play the angel's advocate) provide these people with transpotration to the few McJobs out there. A Wendy's and Belle Tire hiring on 23 mile and Van Dyke does nothing to help the Detroiters who are hardest hit by these austerity measures.

There's the rub. Some of these people don't want jobs, period. Some of them do. Mass transit has been cut to the bone. It doesn't even function anymore. There are no jobs in the inner city. Suburban communities such as Livonia have opted out of the non-functioning transit system altogether. What do they expect to happen? How are these people supposed to get ANY job? I don't think they really care.

So those of us who are honest, tax-paying citizens still fighting the good fight in Detroit instead of fleeing to the suburbs are now bracing for a massive crime wave.

I'm sure those billions in business tax cuts will translate to plenty of new jobs for these folks booted off of welfare at Hayes and 7-Mile, right? Pure brilliance.

This has nothing to do with a bleeding heart. This has to do with the social consequences. I think these people should get jobs. Many of them are simply lazy and stupid. But everyone at least needs a fighting chance. And responsible government needs a plan if they're going to enact sweeping cuts to social programs.

Thanks a lot. Thanks to all of you who voted for Snyder. We're really looking forward to the consequences of this.

[Dave70]

Food stamps is an entirely separate program from welfare and there is no benefit cap on food stamps.

Um, I think I heard on WDET this morning that the bridge cards will be cut off for people who have 5k in assets and a car worth 15k?

[ferntruth]

Yeah, so what plan does Snyder has to provide these people with jobs, or [[to play the angel's advocate) provide these people with transpotration to the few McJobs out there. A Wendy's and Belle Tire hiring on 23 mile and Van Dyke does nothing to help the Detroiters who are hardest hit by these austerity measures.

You are correct, it does nothing to help Detroiters. However, these cuts will also affect some of those living at 23 and Van Dyke, and they will need those jobs as well. Detroiters will need to look for work closer to home and rely on DDOT for transportation to and from work.

Not to be harsh, but it's called hard times for a reason.

[Scottathew]

It's supposed to be a safety net, not a long-term way of life.

I wish the best for the folks, but it's time for them to start contributing to society instead of living off the work of others.

When you give someone everything for free they have no motivation to work.

[313WX]

There's the rub. Some of these people don't want jobs, period. Some of them do. Mass transit has been cut to the bone. It doesn't even function anymore. There are no jobs in the inner city. Suburban communities such as Livonia have opted out of the non-functioning transit system altogether. What do they expect to happen? How are these people supposed to get ANY job? I don't think they really care.

So those of us who are honest, tax-paying citizens still fighting the good fight in Detroit instead of fleeing to the suburbs are now bracing for a massive crime wave.

I'm sure those billions in business tax cuts will translate to plenty of new jobs for these folks booted off of welfare at Hayes and 7-Mile, right? Pure brilliance.

This has nothing to do with a bleeding heart. This has to do with the social consequences. I think these people should get jobs. Many of them are simply lazy and stupid. But everyone at least needs a fighting chance. And responsible government needs a plan if they're going to enact sweeping cuts to social programs.

Thanks a lot. Thanks to all of you who voted for Snyder. We're really looking forward to the consequences of this.

Well playing the devil's advocate now, I don't think the folks on Welfare actually WANT to be on Welfare [[and they want to work), but they also realize the resources for them to do better are so hard to access [[through no fault of their own of course). So why should they strive for better then they're nowhere to get or nothing for them to do to get better? Would you waste your time taking a now 2 hour bus ride to and from home for a minimum wage job or school when you can do just as good sitting on your butt receiving the same amount of money from the government?

[Autoracks]

yea. Its not going to be like... "Snap the gigs up time to start working." The jobs dont exist and this is going to result in crime. Lots of folks are going to be doing desperate shit, it will be winter time and to top it all off bridge cards are getting chopped for some people.

[Danny]

Oh NO! All those poor single mothers playing house with their children. [[ that include poor families) They will not be able to pay their bills, feed their kids and will be put out of them homes.

Please listen to this song http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CACNk...feature=fvwrel

WORD FROM THE STREET PROPHET

When Synder says he's ONE TOUGH NERD! he's a very tough nerd that elimates pre-socialist programs.

[BagAJellyDonuts]

http://www.mdrc.org/publications/51/full.pdf

Interesting report.

Of course some of it is outdated. Looks like Vermont is last state standing that gives unlimited "assistance".

But with that perspective, [[that nearly half the states have a five year cap) what is so wrong with Michigan's four year cap?

[Scottathew]

what is so wrong with Michigan's four year cap?

It lets people sit on their asses for four years and live off the hard work of others. That's a problem.

A four-year gap on your resume.
Atrophied work skills.
Sets people up to depend on government assistance for life.

4 years is way too long.

[Detroitnerd]

It lets people sit on their asses for four years and live off the hard work of others. That's a problem.

A four-year gap on your resume.

Much better when you're homeless and your ass is on the street.

Atrophied work skills.

Those kids will learn to work hard stealing and hooking to make the family nut.

Sets people up to depend on government assistance for life.

Which is wrong ... unless you're Wall Street

4 years is way too long.

Yeah, let's re-open the workhouses. Dickenian England was so charming...

[1953]

I think this is unfortunate, but needed. Probably many of these folks will move in with relatives and partake in adaptive austerity measures, rather than turn to crime - though certainly some may turn to crime.

[Scottathew]

Much better when you're homeless and your ass is on the street.

That's a false dichotomy. In your argument there are only two choices:

1) Unlimited government assistance
2) Ass on the street


There are more options:

3) Get a f***ing job
4) Still can't get a job? Try f***ing harder
5) Still can't get a job? Keep trying.
6) Too lazy to find a job? Move in with family.
7) Too lazy to find a job? Appeal to a charity for assistance.
8) Get a f***ing job

I would find it amazing if a person couldn't get a job after 4 years! If you can't find a job in 1461 days then you're either not trying or you need to do setup at 8-Mile and I-75 and ask folks for change. The guy with the dog chained to a shopping cart seems to do well.


We're acting as if these free-loaders have been trying so hard to get a job and they just for some reason can't...

[DetroitPole]

I question the amount of time any of you have spent in an urban area.

In any city neighborhood there is the ubiquitious granny/auntie/stepdad/mom/10 other people living under one roof.

People are already living together. Many of these people have zero relatives who have regular, full-time employment. I don't see how putting a dozen unemployed people under one roof helps anything [[usually that situation translates into squatting, which I am sure we will see a lot more of - folks heeding your advice, after all) . In fact, you throw a dozen people in any house and it is going to get worn down pretty quickly. That doesn't help a neighborhood.

I know many people would work if they could but some do not - a minority, I believe. I get resumes from Michgian Works! though and I get some bogus ones that clearly indicate that the person is just sending out resumes to say they did to keep collecting. This is the exception, not the rule, though. Extreme minority.

However for one crappy, part time job I will get 50 resumes in a week - with one spot to fill - and that usually goes to someone with advanced [[but not too advanced, because that works against you, all you who say keep getting degrees) education. I wish I could hire everyone, but I can't. What happens to the rest of these people who are simply not economically viable?

I think they should continue to try to find jobs. There simply aren't the jobs to be had. So bad things will happen. Is that so hard to understand? Pray to God you're not the next victim or statistic.

[corktownyuppie]

They will have to move. This is not as hard as it sounds. It already happens a lot within the confines of the City where there is tremendous movement. When I have bad neighbors on the SW side I pretty much know they are renters and I can console myself that they will move withing the year. That's pretty much my experience.
One of the problems that the DPS experiences is that so many of the children are so mobile. Many, many children in the DPS population move from school to school several times during the year, as the family situation changes, as better or cheaper housing becomes available.

Is this hard? Yes! But people can do it. People moved to Detroit for the jobs generations ago. If there are no jobs now, people will have to move.

I think you're right.

The weird thing is that we DO have jobs. They're just not jobs that the people on welfare are going to be qualified to do. I mentioned in another post about a laid off factory worker client asking me when unemployment in Michigan is going to go down. I told him that it'll happen when more engineers move to Michigan, or when more unemployed unskilled labor migrates out of state.

His response was, "well, neither of those scenarios is going to help me."

I really want him to go back to school. He's only 50, so a skilled trade or college degree takes him 2 years and then gives him 13 years of working. He said it might be easier to just move out of state and find something else. If he were 60, I'd probably say I agree, but moving out of state to do the same job is just going to risk putting him in the same situation 3-5 years from now.

The bottom line is that no matter what he does, it's going to involve some major change. And I have a lot of compassion for him...it's going to be hard for someone to change when they've never had to do so in 30 years. But we don't have a lot of choices, and the reality is tough right now.

7 fat cows, 7 skinny cows. I'd say that it's skinny cow season these days.

[Detroitnerd]

That's a false dichotomy. In your argument there are only two choices:

1) Unlimited government assistance
2) Ass on the street

For many of the people thrown off assistance, that is the reality, not a rhetorical fallacy. Sure, headlines show a national unemployment rate of 9.1 percent. But they started cooking those numbers at the beginning of the 1980s, discounting part-time people looking for full-time work, and discounting discouraged workers who had given up hope of rejoining the labor force. If you count them, the unemployment rate for the country is at least double the official rate, and by some measures as high as 22 percent.

And that's just for the nation as a whole. When you start to get to the underclass, the truly poor, those without good educations, those with criminal records, and those unfortunate enough to be black, those statistics worsen. As a Georgetown University economist put it: "On average black unemployment rates are twice as high as whites', and teen rates are higher than adults, so you put that combination together. And black teens have the highest unemployment rates of anybody in the country -- even during good times."

Many of the people thrown off assistance are of this group. They would have a hard time finding a job -- any job -- even if they didn't have all these forces working against them. If we take the official statistics of the government -- remember: the ones that have been cooked for 31 years now -- the unemployment rate for teens 16-19 is 24.2 percent; for black teens, the figure is 40.7 percent.

These are not the haughty beneficiaries of some sweet social program that allows them to shirk work while rolling in cash. These are largely the victims of the economy, the ones who've grown up malnourished, undereducated.

And it isn't just an urban problem. Across the state, the number of children in poverty in Michigan has risen from 12 percent in 2000 to 22 percent. If families are finding it increasingly hard to take care of their children, should we be cutting them loose from assistance?

And where are the jobs? They're all going overseas. Perhaps you'd have a leg to stand on if there were scores of factories across Detroit demanding unskilled labor to bolt together Oldsmobiles and Huppmobiles, but it hasn't been like that since the 1940s. The jobs ain't there, man -- even for a well-educated college graduate, they're out flippin' burgers and dunkin' fries. What makes you think the hardest-done-by will do any better than them?

It's pretty clear what's going on in this country. When the rich have a problem, when they crash and burn their businesses, when they need some sweet subsidies to keep bilking the public, when they don't want to be investigated even though they're on the public dime, they get to do whatever they want. They get to send our jobs overseas so that we have to pay them a multiple of what it cost some foreigner to make it, and it cripples the tax base further. Then when economic disaster comes, or when the rich need more, who must pay for it? The poor, the working, the 99 percent of us without effective representation in the houses of state.

Who are the real freeloaders? You need look no further than Wall Street. And yet your anger [[and what a lot of anger!) is directed at the neediest? The most vulnerable? Not only does your perspective not make any sense, you, sir, are a bully.

There are more options:

3) Get a f***ing job
4) Still can't get a job? Try f***ing harder
5) Still can't get a job? Keep trying.
6) Too lazy to find a job? Move in with family.
7) Too lazy to find a job? Appeal to a charity for assistance.
8) Get a f***ing job

Oh, that's rich. Maybe you can start your own business "motivating" people by screaming at them at the top of your lungs. It's becoming obvious that your reactions are pretty much emotional, and that you really don't care about the rest of society as long as your gut is full. Screaming, swearing, demanding austerity of the neediest while the people at the top play us all? You embarrass yourself, sir.

I would find it amazing if a person couldn't get a job after 4 years! If you can't find a job in 1461 days then you're either not trying or you need to do setup at 8-Mile and I-75 and ask folks for change. The guy with the dog chained to a shopping cart seems to do well.

We're acting as if these free-loaders have been trying so hard to get a job and they just for some reason can't...

There are a number of statistics that would clearly explain to you why people cannot find jobs. I doubt very much that you will consider them. I have no doubt that not only are you screaming and swearing, but that your fingers are also jammed in your ears.