Occupy Wall Street

[Searay215]

Occupy Wall Street......this is absolutely laughable. Every single one of these people owns either an IPhone, IPad, Apple computer, listening to their ITunes...all of which is made by a corporate giant, financed by Bank of America or some other large banking firm. And watch the news of themselves on their Vizo, Sony or other large Flat screen TV again from another Corporate giant, again financed by some large banking firm, as they sit in there $3000 a month 1100 sq. ft. Manhattan apartment, owned by a corporate conglomerate.
So if you were REALLY serious about greed, you would not own any of it.....if you Really Want to hurt Wall Street....STOP BUYING THE PRODUCTS THAT SUPPORT IT!!!! You Can't Have it both ways!!!

[Ravine]

Way to over-stress how you value style over substance.

Whatever you say, Oldredfordette. I wasn't trying to bring the fight to you. Ideologically, we're on the same side. I was supporting Gnome's premise regarding tactics & strategy.
The folks in that clip don't look all that hipster-garbed, to me. Yet, the point is still a good one, even though I suspect that we will not see the upper-middle class become involved, because the upper-middle class is now full of our generation, and despite having once sconed Jerry Rubin for "selling out," we blindly followed his lead on that move, en masse, as though making the pilgrimage to Woodstock all over again.
So, do we sound like our parents? Yes and No. Our parents' generation showed more courage, behind their convictions, than we ever have, and for all of our youthful yammering about revolution, if there is to be any real revolution, any taking-back of America from Wall Street & the rich, it had better not depend on the likes of us Baby-Boomers, because no generation in American history has been so aggressive in its pursuit of self-interest.
If anything like that is going to happen, I don't know who will carry it off, because us Boomers are entirely full of shit; years ago, we climbed into our VW mini-vans to go off and "find ourselves," and we're still looking.
So, showing up looking like the proletariat avec I-Phones and getting pepper-sprayed won't stir any palpable outrage, but what the hell. It ain't as though we carried any balls for any touchdowns, either.

[oladub]

Funny thing; I agree with much of what Michael Moore and Stefan Molyneux have to say about the Wall Street protests.

Michael Moore is asked [[12min28 sec) what specific things the crowds advocate. He made it clear that people attended with different perspectives but he cited-
-tax the rich
-jail the bankers - Moore noted that although demonstrators were being arrested, no one on Wall Street had been arrested for causing far more problems than the demonstrators.
-end corporate welfare
-end the wars

Stefan Molyneux recognizes the reasons for discontent . His response is different however pointing out that it is illogical to expect help from the same government that set up Wall Street to do so much damage. The answer to problems caused by government are not necessarily addressed by more of the same government.

[Jimaz]

Inside Occupy Wall Street: A Tour of Activist Encampment at the Heart of Growing Protest

In this report, Democracy Now! producer Mike Burke gets a tour of the private park, open to the public, that people have occupied, and and speaks with demonstrators, including a woman who was pepper sprayed by New York City Police Department Deputy Inspector Anthony Bologna last Saturday.

[oldredfordette]

Since most people don't have land lines anymore, they have cell phones, what brand of cell phone [[which is most cases also doubles as a portable computer) would be acceptable? Obviously iPhones are out, but what if the iPhone is cracked and old? Would it be okay then?

[Papasito]

This protest is class warfare at it's finest.
What we need now is the Soviets to come in and show us how everyone should have the same amount of money, the same amount of food, and the same standard of living, so the Government can control all the wealth and disburse it as they see fit.

While these clowns are texting each other on thier 4G cells, posting on Facebook, and blasting the Corporations, there is over 10% of the country who is jobless and would stand in line to work for them.

...And while we are after those "evil" corporations who give themselves more and more money, why don't we turn our attention to that "evil" corporation called THE GOVERNMENT who gave themselves WAY BIGGER RAISES than the private sector did DURING A RECESSION...??




Don't believe it?
http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/whraises.asp

TRUE

Obama administration inspired class warfare = do as I say, not as I do

[jiminnm]

Since most people don't have land lines anymore, they have cell phones, what brand of cell phone [[which is most cases also doubles as a portable computer) would be acceptable? Obviously iPhones are out, but what if the iPhone is cracked and old? Would it be okay then?

Actually, the last numbers I saw were that 68% still have land lines. So most people do have land lines.

[old guy]

Occupy Wall Street......this is absolutely laughable. Every single one of these people owns either an IPhone, IPad, Apple computer, listening to their ITunes...all of which is made by a corporate giant, financed by Bank of America or some other large banking firm. And watch the news of themselves on their Vizo, Sony or other large Flat screen TV again from another Corporate giant, again financed by some large banking firm, as they sit in there $3000 a month 1100 sq. ft. Manhattan apartment, owned by a corporate conglomerate.
So if you were REALLY serious about greed, you would not own any of it.....if you Really Want to hurt Wall Street....STOP BUYING THE PRODUCTS THAT SUPPORT IT!!!! You Can't Have it both ways!!!

It sounds like you're making a case for the protesters. Yes, corporate America is pretty much in control of everything we do. They control the food chain, housing, energy, insurance, transportation, media, communications, medicine and medical care. Want to buy some good stocks? Invest in privatized corporate prisons. It's kind of hard not to support corporations.
Does a person need to give all that up before they have the right to voice their dissatisfaction with a system that treats well over half the population as disposable?
I have a roof over my head, a cell phone and a television. Does that mean I should be quiet and accept everything that's thrown at me?

[Ravine]

Since most people don't have land lines anymore, they have cell phones, what brand of cell phone [[which is most cases also doubles as a portable computer) would be acceptable? Obviously iPhones are out, but what if the iPhone is cracked and old? Would it be okay then?

You are clinging to sarcasm and rancor in order to absolutely refuse to acknowledge the merit of a "take" which, while not matching your own, could serve a goal which you, I thought, shared: the public embarrassment of Wall Street and the government that kid-gloved it.

I am reminded of the scene in Hemingway's "For Whom The Bell Tolls," where the furiously impulsive guerilla Joaquin accuses the band's leader, Pablo [[who has thumbs-downed a plan which he judges to be too dangerous,) of cowardice; Pablo replies [[may be slightly off-quote, here,) "But I will be alive when you are dead."

[Papasito]

“The fact that we are here today to debate raising America 's debt limit is a sign of leadership failure. It is a sign that the US Government cannot pay its own bills. It is a sign that we now depend on ongoing financial assistance from foreign countries to finance our Government's reckless fiscal policies. Increasing America 's debt weakens us domestically and internationally. Leadership means that, "the buck stops here.' Instead, Washington is shifting the burden of bad choices today onto the backs of our children and grandchildren. America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership. Americans deserve better.”

~ Senator Barack H. Obama, March 2006!

Sen. Obama, Congressional Record, S.2237-8, 3/16/06
http://rpc.senate.gov/public/_files/...ncreasev20.pdf

Yeah, screw those corporations and thier jobs.
We will be just fine with Government choosing what's fair and what's not instead of those dirty, evil corporations!

After all, isn't America that place where we demonize people who start from nothing, work thier way up and become successful, and then have the audacity to be wealthy!?!?

Screw the American dream of the past.
Today, if you're wealthy, you're the evil elite.

The solution = Keep everyone poor!!

[Pam]

You are clinging to sarcasm and rancor in order to absolutely refuse to acknowledge the merit of a "take" which

Seems pretty obvious that she thinks it doesn't have merit. I don't either. The protestors seem to be gaining support from a variety of people without having to wear costumes.

http://www.democraticunderground.com...ss=102x5013932

Among the protesters was Columbia University Professor Joseph Stiglitz, who received the Nobel Prize in economics in 2001. He criticized the US government for its failure to keep financial markets in check during the global financial crisis of 2008.

Stiglitz said the protests were bound to happen and long overdue, with 25 million people without regular jobs. He expressed support for the protests, noting that they may lead to greater movement toward change

[Searay215]

It sounds like you're making a case for the protesters. Yes, corporate America is pretty much in control of everything we do. They control the food chain, housing, energy, insurance, transportation, media, communications, medicine and medical care. Want to buy some good stocks? Invest in privatized corporate prisons. It's kind of hard not to support corporations.
Does a person need to give all that up before they have the right to voice their dissatisfaction with a system that treats well over half the population as disposable?
I have a roof over my head, a cell phone and a television. Does that mean I should be quiet and accept everything that's thrown at me?

Sure voice your opinion all you want, won't do much good.......but corporations and government only see protests as an annonyance. They only true way as I have suggested is to use your wallet to protest. Stop buying their products. I'd bet everyone of those protesters have one or more of those products, yet complain about how greedy corporations are. If I'm not mistaken, that is the whole point of a company....to make as much money as possible. As I have asked so many over this issue.....What do you REALLY want to happen? I still have not gotten a REAL answer.

[old guy]

...And while we are after those "evil" corporations who give themselves more and more money, why don't we turn our attention to that "evil" corporation called THE GOVERNMENT who gave themselves WAY BIGGER RAISES than the private sector did DURING A RECESSION...??

"Yeah, screw those corporations and thier jobs.
We will be just fine with Government choosing what's fair and what's not instead of those dirty, evil corporations!" Papasito

Where do you see people protesting about Wall St. and cheering for the government? I must have missed something. Part of the argument I'm hearing is that nobody from Wall St. was prosecuted for any wrong doing. I don't think anybody's very happy about the close ties of this administration or the republicans with Wall St.

I agree with your quote of "Yeah, screw those corporations and their jobs." They claim to be the job creators that can't add or bring back jobs to the U.S. unless the corporations get more tax breaks. These fat cats are manufacturing products overseas for 75 cent an hour wages. Do you honestly think that a few tax breaks are going to give them a reason to bring jobs back here? It's not going to happen.

They were given interest free loans and tax breaks to build factories overseas during the 50's. A large portion of the money they got in the form of interest free loans was taken from our social security funds. A number of them took the profits from those factories, started new companies overseas and then defaulted on their original interest free loans. The money was never paid back. The original intent of the Eisenhower administration was to build businesses up overseas so other countries could afford to purchase products from the U.S. It backfired, the corporate assholes took the money and ran, never looking back.

Screw em'. I'm sick and tired of these people bleeding us dry and the government helping them do it. I'm sick and tired of the very people that raided the social security funds complaining that it's a system that doesn't work after they've prospered from it. And I'm sick and tired of hearing people that have absolutely no plans to help Americans get back to work, complaining that they need more perks in order to do it.

Do you really wonder why so many people are taking to the streets?

[rb336]

This protest is class warfare at it's finest.

the class warfare was started under reaganomics. the right only calls it class warfare if the working people dare stand up for themselves

[Danny]

Let's make a protest not to shop at corporate owned franchise retail stores. That would make them lost money and see how it feels to be POOR! like us. Show you're local mom and pop retail stores.

[rb336]

"They were given interest free loans and tax breaks to build factories overseas during the 50's.

That long ago? that swedish vaccuum company that was making things in michigan untill 5 or 6 years ago left and the CEO said it left because the state couldn't match the incentives the bushies were offering for it to move to some oceana third-world country

[Danny]

That's right proletarians and conrads! Take back America from those evil corporations who are controlling our U.S. gov't. Take back the American Dream from the super rich! Shout your socialist cries accross the U.S. big town and small towns. The People's march for democracy against plutomy mus go on until our voice and demands are compromise. Uprise and rebell!

WORD FROM THE STREET PROPHET

We Shall Overcome for Neda's sake.

[Downtown Lady]

If I'm not mistaken, that is the whole point of a company....to make as much money as possible.

Yes, this is exactly what corporate executive and shareholders would lead people to believe. But at what point do ethics come into play?

So then is it a matter of making as much money as possible within the confines of a set of moral standards, or is it a matter of making as much money as possible by any means necessary? I think it's become the latter, and that's why people are taking to the streets.

If the whole point of a company is to make as much money as possible, it is right to do so by:

-- eliminating U.S. jobs and sending them overseas in order to use cheap labor
-- slashing healthcare benefits
-- slashing pension benefits
-- paying little in taxes, or in some cases no taxes
-- spending exorbitant sums on campaign contributions to, in effect, buy an elected official

And how about the companies that keep the cost of life-saving drugs sky high? Or companies that are war profiteers? Or companies that pollute the food supply with genetically-engineered food because they can show a great return to their shareholders?

Since corporations that are guilty of these things have shown no interest in reining themselves in, since "the whole point of a company is to make as much money as possible" [by any means necessary], then government needs to step in and put the brakes on these country-destroying tactics, to save the people from these money whores.

But government will not step in, since most of them are bought and paid for. Alienating the big corporations means an end to campaign contributions, which means the end of their job.

So the bottom line is that money needs to be removed from campaigns. Everything else can then follow.

[Searay215]

Yes, this is exactly what corporate executive and shareholders would lead people to believe. But at what point do ethics come into play?

So then is it a matter of making as much money as possible within the confines of a set of moral standards, or is it a matter of making as much money as possible by any means necessary? I think it's become the latter, and that's why people are taking to the streets.

If the whole point of a company is to make as much money as possible, it is right to do so by:

-- eliminating U.S. jobs and sending them overseas in order to use cheap labor
-- slashing healthcare benefits
-- slashing pension benefits
-- paying little in taxes, or in some cases no taxes
-- spending exorbitant sums on campaign contributions to, in effect, buy an elected official

And how about the companies that keep the cost of life-saving drugs sky high? Or companies that are war profiteers? Or companies that pollute the food supply with genetically-engineered food because they can show a great return to their shareholders?

Since corporations that are guilty of these things have shown no interest in reining themselves in, since "the whole point of a company is to make as much money as possible" [by any means necessary], then government needs to step in and put the brakes on these country-destroying tactics, to save the people from these money whores.

But government will not step in, since most of them are bought and paid for. Alienating the big corporations means an end to campaign contributions, which means the end of their job.

So the bottom line is that money needs to be removed from campaigns. Everything else can then follow.

Your not going to get an arguement from me....all your points are right on the money. But I do believe we do not have much leverage...except to vote with our wallets. Try to buy locally from mom and pop stores. Hell the very use of the internet we are dicussing this on is making ALL the companies on here millions.... I don't know if there is an answer.....until we hit bottom and I'm not sure how or when that will happen.

[oladub]

post #78 continued-
"I really, really understand the impulse driving them to do this, I applaud the moral fortitude, I applaud the youthful courage, and I repudiate the solutions that are being put forward. Yes, of course, the general population has been raped and pillaged by the financial sector, but what is astounding to me…[is that these protestors] know that the government has been complicit in all of this stuff, they know that the government is dependent upon the financial institutions for money to continue to bribe the general population into getting votes, they know that the government has started unjust wars and have been responsible in America for the murder of hundreds of thousands of foreigners and tens of thousands of Americans, they know that the government kidnaps people and throws them in jail for non-crimes like having unpopular bits of vegetation in their pockets, they know all of this about the government, and what is their damn solution to the problem of financial corruption? Let’s have the government do something about it. Let’s have the government put a tax on financial transaction. Let’s have the government…repeal the repeal on Glass-Steagall. Let’s have the government swoop in and do all of this wonderful stuff because these financial institutions are like wayward children who have eaten too much candy and the government, like a parent, needs to come in and take away all the Halloween bags. It’s completely insane! -Stefan Molyneux intro

[Downtown Lady]

these financial institutions are like wayward children who have eaten too much candy and the government, like a parent, needs to come in and take away all the Halloween bags

I think that Molyneux unintentionally actually made quite an apt comparison. The children certainly aren't going to take the candy away from themselves.

[BShea]

While I am sympathetic to some of the concerns voiced by the Occupy Wall Street crowd, there's either massive hypocrisy at play or massive ignorance when they cry about corporate money in politics fails to include organized labor's contribution.

Unions donate far more massively than Wall Street does:

OpenSecrets breakdown of political donations 1989-2012.

I was shocked to see this. Unions dominate the donations and almost all of it goes to Democrats. Only AT&T and UPS are in the top 20.

Goldman Sachs, No. 25 on the list, has donated $21 million since 1989, and 60 percent of that has gone to Dems. That surprised me, too [[even tho the Obama Administration is rife with GS veterans).

Organized labor is a close ally of the various Progressive groups and individuals that loosely make up the Occupy Wall Street movement [[and has been increasingly participating), but there is silence from the protesters about getting union money out of politics, too.

[old guy]

It needs to be all special interests money out of elections, including unions.

[rb336]

While I am sympathetic to some of the concerns voiced by the Occupy Wall Street crowd, there's either massive hypocrisy at play or massive ignorance when they cry about corporate money in politics fails to include organized labor's contribution.

Unions donate far more massively than Wall Street does:

.

with all that money donated, there has not been one significant piece of pro-labor legislation passed in the 1989-2010 time frame and tons of anti-labor items have. There in lies the difference.

[BShea]

with all that money donated, there has not been one significant piece of pro-labor legislation passed in the 1989-2010 time frame and tons of anti-labor items have. There in lies the difference.

I don't think ineptitude of the unions at this game is the issue. Buying access and influence is the problem. Just because labor got very little ROI doesn't make it OK to ignore the fact labor does exactly what Wall Street does -- try to buy influence.