Occupy Wall Street

**Jimaz** · September-27-11, 08:55 PM

Corporate Media's censorship has failed to squelch the Occupy Wall Street protest. It must now be addressed whether they like it or not.

How you will be assaulted with chemical weapons for respecting "police lines" strategically preventing your escape. Conclusion: They demand you breach their police lines. If you fail to breach their police lines the police will retaliate for that respect by using chemical weapons against you. In this video they have made those demands explicit. For your own protection, do not respect police lines in this way, by the order of the police themselves. If these women had successfully escaped, they would not have been assaulted by the police.

Occupy Wall Street protest slowly spreads across the United States

Michael Moore @ Occupy Wall Street

Note how the decision to prohibit amplifiers has backfired. Crowdnet beats bullhorns because its message is immediately and implicitly affirmed by the people.

**Goose** · September-27-11, 11:07 PM

funny watching all these anti-corporate, anti-wallstreet activists take to the streets with their iphones and other expensive must have materialist gadgets...

**oldredfordette** · September-28-11, 07:00 AM

It's growing and growing and spreading.

Goose, nice to see someone be entirely, completely and totally wrong.

**GOAT** · September-28-11, 07:06 AM

I agree there hasn't been much said about this with the media giants...go figure. When the power of mass media is in the hands of a few, society is the worse off for it. Luckily we have the internet [[though gov't is trying to censor it and throttle back what we can and cannot do...go figure on that as well.)

**Detroitej72** · September-28-11, 07:49 AM

This is yet more proof that the media is anything but liberal. The media is owned by corporate interests, and as such they push the corporatist agenda.

**Goose** · September-28-11, 09:32 AM

Originally Posted by oldredfordette

It's growing and growing and spreading.

Goose, nice to see someone be entirely, completely and totally wrong.

really, like the law school student in designer clothes crying that his parents half a million dollar home was taken by the bank? take me now, arrest me, oh the horror of my rich family and all the priveldge I have.....

**gnome** · September-28-11, 10:10 AM

Been following this for the last few days, the police seem absolutely befuddled and have predictably resorted to strongarm tactics.

Shameful.

I do have some suggestions for the marchers:

Dump the hipster garb. Where business suits. Push baby strollers, wheelchairs, walkers, etc.

The issue here is image and the picture of hipster garbed anarchists getting maced doesn't stir the emotions in middle-class America. The reason I say this isn't because I am heartless to the plight of those maced, the reason is that the marchers look like they don't have anything else going on in their lives. We all know that there are some people who just like to complain and will join any random group who is protesting this or that.

Dressed as business executives, priests, nuns, doctors or hardhats delivers a different image altogether. We all wear costumes of one sort of another. An art director doesn't dress like a plumber, a nun doesn't dress like a hip-hop MC ... these costumes - or uniforms - deliver powerful messages about one's standing in society. We may not like that reality, but it is true.

Hipster garb conveys the message that they are outside of mainstream society and that runs counter to their desired goal of bringing public anger to a boiling point.

If the police were shown to be macing a group of doctors, or nuns, or wheelchair bound mothers ... the anger in middle America would more readily be piqued.

Right now, they look like a bunch of disenchanted Obama supporters getting mouthy and getting smacked around. If they want sympathy, look sympathic. Look respectable.

Ravine · September-28-11, 10:22 AM

Tres bien, Gnome. That may be the most intelligent post I've ever seen around these here parts.
Granted, the bar to which I obliquely refer may be set in a rather low position, but you did more than clear it, you vaulted it with a few yards to spare.

**oldredfordette** · September-28-11, 10:45 AM

You're showing your age. These young people want you to know you sound like your fathers did in the sixties. Cut your hair, get a job, put on a suit, conform conform conform. What is happening on Wall Street is a rejection of all that. Try as hard as you can to decalcify your brain, stop paying attention to frivolous things and seek out the true meaning.

There's something going on but you don't know what it is, do you, Mr. Jones?

**bailey** · September-28-11, 11:00 AM

They are doing nothing productive and accomplishing nothing more than making some very well founded complaints seem to be the sole purview of the crazy and violent left. Look you want change... SHOW THE FUCK UP TO VOTE NEXT YEAR . Shall we revisit what staying home and pouting in 2010 because Obama didnt enact every single demand of the left did?

This crowd is made up of spoiled brats, crybaby hipsters pissed off that 120k in student debt incurred to get a liberal arts degree from tony east coast school hasn't delivered that loft in the hippest part of town, and aging hippies who's only validation in life comes from being an "activist"....what for? doesn't matter as long as they are "sticking it to the man". To echo the above... I could take them a lot more seriously if they weren't all tweeting about if from 500 dollar phones, or 3000 dollar laptops while wearing several layers of northface.

Ravine · September-28-11, 11:26 AM

Originally Posted by oldredfordette

You're showing your age. These young people want you to know you sound like your fathers did in the sixties. Cut your hair, get a job, put on a suit, conform conform conform. What is happening on Wall Street is a rejection of all that. Try as hard as you can to decalcify your brain, stop paying attention to frivolous things and seek out the true meaning.

There's something going on but you don't know what it is, do you, Mr. Jones?

Which one of us is Mr. Jones?

I know I'm a Thin Man, but that doesn't necessarily tell me to whom you were referring.

**old guy** · September-28-11, 11:49 AM

Originally Posted by gnome

I do have some suggestions for the marchers:

Dump the hipster garb. Where business suits. Push baby strollers, wheelchairs, walkers, etc.

The issue here is image and the picture of hipster garbed anarchists getting maced doesn't stir the emotions in middle-class America. The reason I say this isn't because I am heartless to the plight of those maced, the reason is that the marchers look like they don't have anything else going on in their lives. We all know that there are some people who just like to complain and will join any random group who is protesting this or that.

Dressed as business executives, priests, nuns, doctors or hardhats delivers a different image altogether. We all wear costumes of one sort of another. An art director doesn't dress like a plumber, a nun doesn't dress like a hip-hop MC ... these costumes - or uniforms - deliver powerful messages about one's standing in society. We may not like that reality, but it is true.

Hipster garb conveys the message that they are outside of mainstream society and that runs counter to their desired goal of bringing public anger to a boiling point.

If the police were shown to be macing a group of doctors, or nuns, or wheelchair bound mothers ... the anger in middle America would more readily be piqued.

Right now, they look like a bunch of disenchanted Obama supporters getting mouthy and getting smacked around. If they want sympathy, look sympathic. Look respectable.

I wholeheartedly agree with this idea and have for a number of decades. During the 60's when thousands of bizarre looking people assembled, it almost always made it into the evening news. There was a shock factor and it worked. Even as early as the mid 70's, the shock factor had worn off. The idea of marching around in large groups, banging homemade drums and chanting slogans over and over for hours at a time merely turned people off, including many of the people that had participated in events like that.

What finally turned the tide for the anti-war movement was the coming together of the hipsters, disenchanted military personnel, blue collar workers and mothers and fathers. The government could no longer ignore the cross section of Americans that wanted the war to end.

As an old hipster myself, I eventually realized that I could accomplish more by blending in [[somewhat) and having subtle conversations with my adversaries than I ever did screaming my opinion at someone. It's one thing to want to be cool and another to want to accomplish something.

In this situation I think it would be great if there were several thousand people there dressed in 3 piece suits, even if they were purchased from second hand stores. The drum has been beat to death. Do something creative.

**gnome** · September-28-11, 12:12 PM

ORD, It appears you need to re-read my post as you misunderstand the difference between strategy and tactics.

Mao wrote, "The guerrilla must move amongst the people as a fish swims in the sea. " Meaning to succeed as a guerrilla you have to melt into the society at large. Be the people. Confuse the opposition by looking just like them. The result will be that eventually the police will set upon all "suits" thereby inflaming the passions of all Americans.

Currently, the protesters are easy targets because they have clothed themselves in the uniform of non-conformity. They are easy to spot, easy to target ... they are not fish in the sea. They have visually set themselves apart which runs counter to what should be their strategic objectives.

It is easy to confuse the two. Tactics follow strategy. Tactics are tools. Strategies are goals. I can use a wrench to hammer a nail, but the better tool is a hammer. If I use the proper tool to accomplish the task, I succeed in meeting my goal.

The marchers are using the wrong tactics if their stategy is to inflame the passions of Main Street. The ire of Mom and Pa America. Even here on this thread, there are folks who have been turned off by the appearance of the marchers. I would guess even the hard-hearted would feel differently if those maced would be dressed as doctors or veterans or business folk.

I hope that helps you understand that my sympathies are with the marchers, I would just like them to not be discounted simply because they are dressed in their uniformed non-conformity.

**bailey** · September-28-11, 01:38 PM

Originally Posted by gnome

ORD, It appears you need to re-read my post as you misunderstand the difference between strategy and tactics.

Mao wrote, "The guerrilla must move amongst the people as a fish swims in the sea. " Meaning to succeed as a guerrilla you have to melt into the society at large. Be the people. Confuse the opposition by looking just like them. The result will be that eventually the police will set upon all "suits" thereby inflaming the passions of all Americans.

Currently, the protesters are easy targets because they have clothed themselves in the uniform of non-conformity. They are easy to spot, easy to target ... they are not fish in the sea. They have visually set themselves apart which runs counter to what should be their strategic objectives.

It is easy to confuse the two. Tactics follow strategy. Tactics are tools. Strategies are goals. I can use a wrench to hammer a nail, but the better tool is a hammer. If I use the proper tool to accomplish the task, I succeed in meeting my goal.

The marchers are using the wrong tactics if their stategy is to inflame the passions of Main Street. The ire of Mom and Pa America. Even here on this thread, there are folks who have been turned off by the appearance of the marchers. I would guess even the hard-hearted would feel differently if those maced would be dressed as doctors or veterans or business folk.

I hope that helps you understand that my sympathies are with the marchers, I would just like them to not be discounted simply because they are dressed in their uniformed non-conformity.

It's less about camouflage and more about actually being mom and pa america....actually being doctors, vets, or buisness folk. But they're not. they're professional activists that can't deign to be troubled with voting in off year elections or voting for someone that did not enact every single item they wished to see enacted in the first 2 years of his first term.

**gnome** · September-28-11, 01:53 PM

Bailey, you don't know that. You don't know they don't vote, you don't know they aren't parents, and most of all you don't know they are professional anything.

If I understand their gripe, it is mainly focused on the Wall Street Traders and NY Bankers who have picked all of our pockets and walked away without a sideways look. I happen to agree that the Goldmen-Sachs of the world have helped ruin our good-time. I also happen to be rather surprised that not a single one of the evil-doers have had to do a perp walk.

I also happen to be slightly upset that the cozy relationship between Goldman-Sachs and Mr. Obama sniffs of yesterday's diapers. By my lights, the right to protest is a right. As much as I might not like shouting in public, it still is protected under the constitution, and I trust the Constitution more than any police officer.

**Downtown Lady** · September-28-11, 01:59 PM

Originally Posted by bailey

This crowd is made up of spoiled brats, crybaby hipsters pissed off that 120k in student debt incurred to get a liberal arts degree from tony east coast school hasn't delivered that loft in the hippest part of town, and aging hippies who's only validation in life comes from being an "activist"

Originally Posted by bailey

they're professional activists that can't deign to be troubled with voting in off year elections or voting for someone that did not enact every single item they wished to see enacted in the first 2 years of his first term.

How can you possibly know these specific facts about the protesters short of having done an in-depth poll? Lots of assumption and conjecture there.

Also, do you really think that this is something we can vote our way out of? WIthout campaign finance reform and now especially thanks to Citizens United, everyone on both sides of the aisle is for sale [[well, except for Kucinich).

**old guy** · September-28-11, 02:12 PM

I signed this petition to attempt to alienate Wall St. and big money from politics. It's kind of a lofty goal but the petition is growing by about a 1000 signatures an hour. It just started yesterday. It's for an amendment to ban contributions to federal elections.

http://www.getmoneyout.com/

**Downtown Lady** · September-28-11, 02:17 PM

Thank you for the link, Old Guy -- I signed it.

**firstandten** · September-28-11, 02:19 PM

Originally Posted by old guy

I signed this petition to attempt to alienate Wall St. and big money from politics. It's kind of a lofty goal but the petition is growing by about a 1000 signatures an hour. It just started yesterday. It's for an amendment to ban contributions to federal elections.

http://www.getmoneyout.com/

If you can make that happen, that qualifies as a revolution.

A sure fire revolution without firing a single shot.

That my friend would be history making.

**Islandman** · September-28-11, 03:25 PM

Just signed it. Up to 30K.

**bailey** · September-28-11, 04:02 PM

[QUOTE=Downtown Lady;275164]

How can you possibly know these specific facts about the protesters short of having done an in-depth poll? Lots of assumption and conjecture there.

Sorry, it was from actually looking at them up close. I was just there and I swung by to check out this circus. They arent even ON wall street nor Broad which makes the whole "occupy" part a massive failure in the first place. Secondly, all they are doing is making it hard for people who work in the area to just get to work. It doesn't affect anyone that they claim to be aiming this farce of a protest at. This unfocused, meaningless "protest" is joke. it will solve nothing. and it will basically undermine the cause they claim to be fighting for as they'll just be dismissed as the cranks they are.

Can we vote our way out? sure. What we can not do is pout about Obama not implementing every fringe left wing proposal on a country with a Center-right populace.

And Citizens united works both ways. NARAL/UAW/AFL-CIO/NOW...etc all have the same unfettered access.

**Downtown Lady** · September-28-11, 04:16 PM

Originally Posted by bailey

Citizens united works both ways. NARAL/UAW/AFL-CIO/NOW...etc all have the same unfettered access.

All of those combined probably have a tiny fraction of the money that Exxon has. Or Shell, which earlier this year reported making a profit of $2.5 million dollars per hour.

**old guy** · September-28-11, 04:50 PM

Originally Posted by Islandman

Just signed it. Up to 30K.

It's up over 40K now, in just over an hour.

**Jimaz** · September-28-11, 08:32 PM

Politics aside, it's events like these that provide us with a unique opportunity to assess news outlets and search engines for objectivity, spontaneity. They can be analyzed with the following technique.

The goal is to, over time, collect a list of news outlets that scooped others and so may be regarded as prescient bellwether outlets for similar stories in the future. The technique is to use search engines to identify who was discussing an emerging issue just before it appeared in popular media. Identify a unique term that is closely related to the event [[e.g., "Osama bin Laden" as related to 9/11) then search for anyone who used that term just before 9/11 after which it became a household term. After it becomes a household term, that's when you get all the useless spin. You want to avoid that spin.

In this case, if you go to Google News and enter the search term "occupywallst.org" you'll find a list of stories from eclectic sources but Wall Street Journal and CBS don't appear until the second page. Consider monitoring those other sources more closely in the future on similar issues to avoid corporate spin/censorship.

Watch for future emerging events like this and use this technique to accumulate a list of news outlets that scoop the spinsters. That's what Wallstreeters do.

**oldredfordette** · September-28-11, 09:03 PM

I signed it, though it looks like a television celebrity vanity site. I hope it does some good. Personally, we're not going to vote our way out of this. We need to take our country back, and excuse me if I don't put makeup on before I hit the bricks. I will take my earrings out, as I know that cops love to yank jewelry out of people's bodies - I will also take a small baggie with a bandana soaked in vinegar for the pepper spray and make sure I have water to flush my eyes out. I don't know what to do to combat tasers, which will be the next weapon used on protesters.