MM Nails It....

[d'oh]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/michae..._b_209603.html

[Fury13]

He sure did.

[DetroitDad]

Excellent, he hit it dead on.

[eriedearie]

WOW! What a powerful piece of writing that is. He did nail it - spot on!

Wonder if one of the president's advisers will read this article and show it to him? Wonder if he'll take any of it to heart? Wonder, wonder?

[izzyindetroit]

Bit extreme, no?

[Stosh]

I, for one, feel that he is partially right in some respects, and a blathering idiot in others.

Right: GM was overly full of themselves,and moving jobs overseas cost them sales, and a death spiral they couldn't stop.

Right: Conversion of factories to produce alternative energy devices. These should come from companies that have experience in the field. And also right is the tax credits for home energy improvements and driving fuel efficient vehicles.

Wrong: That GM should cease production of cars immediately and produce mass transit vehicles and alternative energy devices... DUH? After they completely retool their factories to produce these completely unrelated items, there's not a guarantee that these will even sell. They already make buses, if I'm not mistaken. Stick to what you know. Hybrid, electric, efficient personal vehicles. And sell trucks too.

Wrong: Two dollar tax on gas. I mean, you saw what happened to our economy when the gas prices went out of sight last summer. Imagine the carnage when this becomes a permanent way of life. And the fuel costs add to the cost of food transport too, among other items. Why another tax on us?

[Det_ard]

Business advice from Michael Moore? Next he'll bring out his healthy eating cookbook.

Every educated analyst I've read has stated petroleum will play a major role in transportation for several decades. The automobile provides unmatched personable mobility and utility for people all over the world. Billions of these expensive machines have willingly been bought by people all across the globe. They'll change but they're not going away in our lifetimes. There's simply no reasonable alternative for many, many people. And for every car purchase foregone in the US and Europe in favor of mass transit there will be an eager new buyer in China, India and those in the growing global middle-class.

[hamtown mike]

Japan 374,744 SQ KM

The U.S. 9,161,923 SQ KM

Just saying.

[R8RBOB]

Japan 374,744 SQ KM

The U.S. 9,161,923 SQ KM

Just saying.

Are you trying to say that because Japan is smaller that they are able to have high-speed trains and we aren't?

You know what your comparisons tell me? That we had more room to setup and we pass the ball.

[Patrick]

I dont know why people blame GM for Flint's demise. Sure, they may have did some negative things to workers but GM wasn't in business to support a city. It was in business to make cars. Flint should have diversified its economy.

[LodgeDodger]

Do you really think people are willing to give up their cars?

[R8RBOB]

I dont know why people blame GM for Flint's demise. Sure, they may have did some negative things to workers but GM wasn't in business to support a city. It was in business to make cars. Flint should have diversified its economy.

I know business is business, but you make it sound so cold.
"It was in business to make cars. Flint should have diversified its economy.

I am sure GM used that same excuse when they made cars in China and Mexico and expected unemployed Americans to buy those cars. As for Flint, well I would expect a corporation like GM would be treated like a partner not a passing fling at the crossroads. GM left and took a majority of their business with them.

[ghettopalmetto]

Do you really think people are willing to give up their cars?

If they have reasonable and realistic alternatives, then yes, people are willing to give up their cars.

For better or for worse, though, private automobile ownership is virtually mandatory for 90% of the people in this country.

[R8RBOB]

Do you really think people are willing to give up their cars?

I don't think it is an issue about giving up our cars. It is about choice. For us in Metro Detroit, we got to have a car. Either have a car or walk. That's it. I wish I had a choice on if I feel like driving to Downton Detroit or can I take the light-rail downtown or maybe the train. I can't!!! Because there is no such thing in Detroit. Mass Transit....

L. Brooks Patterson once said he loved sprawl. He wanted more and more freeways and highways built straight thru Metro Detroit He said that because he was opposed to mass transit because he didn't want to use tax money. The one thing that kept Southeastern Michigan strictly in automoblies. I hope Brooks wasn't crying too hard after his GM stock was tossed with the rest of the garbage.

[gazhekwe]

I think he is right on as well, but I can see the need for a transitional period as we complete the mass transit alternatives and phase out the need for families to have multiple cars just to get by. It did take more than 20 years to phase out the horse. I can remember horsedrawn milk wagons and scrap trucks in the 1950s. So we have a couple of decades to make cars, and find ways to include them in the future. New engines, new drive trains and safe and aerodynamic designs, there is plenty of room for innovation in the automotive sector.

Adding this: I just remembered, of course, the horse still isn't completely phased out. We have Mackinac Island, and there are the Amish. I am sure there are more holding out.

[Parkguy]

Here's the hitch in L. Brooks' opinion. He conveniently ignores that fact that every street and every road and every highway is totally tax-supported. And the only funds that go to support the highway after it is built come from taxes. No user fees... just tax money from fuel taxes and other taxes [[at least that is the case in Michigan.) He just likes everyone's taxes to go to the things he values.

[Reality_Check]

Me, I'm just relieved this thread isn't about Matty Moroun.

Couldn't tell from the title line . . .

And though the other MM makes some sense in some sentences, it's tough to get past his Bloated Blowhard Boasts.

Twenty years ago when I made 'Roger & Me,' I tried to warn people about what was ahead for General Motors. Had the power structure and the punditocracy listened, maybe much of this could have been avoided.

[Bearinabox]

Do you really think people are willing to give up their cars?

As long as there's cheap gas [[and yes, $4/gallon is cheap), obscenely excessive amounts of free parking, subsidized roads, concentrations of businesses miles away from where people live [[an effect of said free parking), and buses that show up twenty-eight minutes behind schedule [[like the Eight Mile did when I rode it earlier today), probably not. That said, how sustainable do you think that way of life is going to be? Oil isn't getting any cheaper or easier to find, our roads are sprouting potholes that could swallow a Volkswagen, and almost nobody is as well-off as they used to be. Cars are expensive to buy, expensive to insure, expensive to maintain, and expensive to keep full of gas [[even when gas is cheap, which it most assuredly is). I guess my answer to your question, LodgeDodger, is "we'll have to wait and see."

[2blocksaway]

I for one will never give up my car.

The bus sucks. I hate being stuffed next to other people for any period of time. I have only been on public transportation a few times since middle school but every time reminded me of how much I loved having my own transportation.

Even planes suck. I hate the thought of it. I wish I could be knocked out before every flight and wake up on approach. I would pay extra for nitrous in the oxygen masks.

Gas would have to be over $7 a gallon for me to think about changing my driving habits and over $10 for me to think about public transportation.

That being said I am for a $4 per gallon floor for gas. For example today gas was $2.79 per gallon you would be paying $1.21 per gallon in road taxes. Above $4 a gallon and the current gas taxes plus little extra kick back in.

I can't for the life of me think of why the government can't make Chrysler and GM build every single car sold in the U.S. in the U.S. Is it just too easy of a concept?

Tear up the current contracts and get back to the table. Jobs that pay less are better than no jobs at all. Aren't they?

If Chrysler and GM said today that they were hiring on the line for $15 and hour and partial benefits it would look like Highland Park after $5 a day was announced.


As for Michael Moore. Please. SHUTUP!!!!!

Has there really been such and outcry from the public for cars that got great gas mileage? Last time I checked trucks were still the #1 selling vehicles in the country.

[Bearinabox]

I for one will never give up my car.

Gas would have to be over $7 a gallon for me to think about changing my driving habits and over $10 for me to think about public transportation.

Those two statements contradict each other. Are you implying that $10/gallon is outside the realm of possibility? Like I said, we'll have to wait and see.

[R8RBOB]

As for Michael Moore. Please. SHUTUP!!!!!

Has there really been such and outcry from the public for cars that got great gas mileage? Last time I checked trucks were still the #1 selling vehicles in the country.

Hmm, I suppose the only outcry is from two bankrupt automakers. Crying about being stuck with thousands of trucks in lots not being sold. Great gas mileage should have been the standard, not the exception

[DetroitDad]

Many Americans have already bought their last new car. Some Americans have bought their last car period.

$4 a gallon happened in less than one decade, as we had $0.98 per gallon in 1998. Before that, gas was climbing cents on the decade. So, with peak oil we can expect the rise per decade to only accelerate. $10-$12 a gallon in ten years might not be that surprising.

[Det_ard]

Gas goes to $4, the cost makes people change behavior. MPG standards go way up to 36 or whatever, the cost to drive goes down and people love their cars again.

Gas goes up to $6, MPG's at 60 via hybrids, electrics, currently undiscovered technology, cost to drive is still reasonable, people still love cars.

Gas goes to $10, lots of vehicles get the equivalent of 100 MPG, people are still driving like they always did, suburbs are still sprawling and transit/density advocates have made only modest progress. Where transit has really taken off and filled out the region, people can more enjoyably live way way out and still get around relatively quickly and inexpensively.

Probably a nightmare scenario to many on here, but probably more likely than cars going away.

[Detroitej72]

Has there really been such and outcry from the public for cars that got great gas mileage? Last time I checked trucks were still the #1 selling vehicles in the country.

Thats what I've been wondering.

GM, Ford, and Chrysler build what the market wants, and the market wanted trucks and SUVs. They can build all the Volts the government mandates, but will people actually buy them? Also, you hear all the talk of how great the Prius is, but seriously, how many do you see on the road?

Everybody I know who drives the big trucks and SUVs tell me they will never buy small cars since they perceive them to be unsafe. I am all for small cars, as evident by my Ford Focus, but the masses don't seem to share my view. Therefore, I think its a mistake to force automakers to build the small cars, as the public is not demanding their construction.

As for mass transit, I like that idea, but we have this whole two car per household mentality that it will take a long time for this culture to change and for folks to realistically consider riding the rails.

[2blocksaway]

Bear,

I will never not have a car. $10 a gallon will only make me consider public transportation. As in, " geez gas is $10 a gallon. maybe I should start thinking about driving less."

I don't think $10 a gallon is out of the realm of possibility. It may be closer than we think.

r8rbob,

i don't think you got what i as saying.

72,

I agree. I prefer smaller cars and hate driving big trucks. As a former 2 time Focus owner and two time Focus crasher I can testify that they are very safe.