Arrests in Pontiac up 600% since policing turned over to Oakland County

[corktownyuppie]

Makes me wonder why Pontiac residents fought it for so long....from the Detroit News.

Pontiac — Arrests have skyrocketed in Pontiac the past month since Oakland County Sheriff's deputies took over police duties under contract with the city.

Nearly 300 arrests — both new offenders and fugitives wanted on outstanding warrants — have kept deputies busy on all shifts. The 130 warrants authorized on new cases — more than four cases a day — is about a 600 percent increase from July, before deputies took over, according to the Oakland County Prosecutor's office.

And during the same time, the state's largest drug seizure of uncut heroin and cocaine — with a street value of $150 million — was made in Pontiac, stemming from a traffic stop by a deputy.

The disbanding of the Pontiac Police Department prompted intense debate among city residents. Some feared the cash-strapped city under the control of a state-appointed emergency manager was further losing its power and identity.


From The Detroit News: http://detnews.com/article/20110913/...#ixzz1Xqs9XQyY

[animatedmartian]

Too many people in this region are holding on to "power and identity." Detroit and Highland Park come to mind. If the city is falling apart and things that need to be done can't be done then what "identity" are you protecting? The identity that you're a failing city?

I would think a better argument is that a state-appointment manager would come in and fire everyone and then replace them with lower-wage workers but I haven't heard about that happening or being argued. But this "identity" argument is something I never understood.

It's also good to hear that at least something has turned crime around in Pontiac.

[Detroitnerd]

Well, the numbers are impressive, but there are good reasons for communities to want to resist outside policing.

When problems arise, the community will have to now appeal to the county government, which is arguably less beholden to the community.

Outside police are often seen as an occupying army, and seldom know the people, businesses and habits of that community.

Outside police are much more likely to make arrests in situations that could otherwise be defused. I'm thinking in particular of STATCOM-type policing, in which "making numbers" are paramount and the actual view from the street isn't as important. Just speculating, but were all 18 arrests for domestic violence calls really necessary? Who knows?

Contracting the Oakland County Sheriff means that tax dollars paid by local citizens go to outside employees. Those dollars no longer stay within the community. And, given police organizations' increasing reliance on forfeiture for funding, many other "community assets" could leave the city.

Pontiac's minority population will likely have to deal with increased racial profiling as a result of this, yet another reason why a city like Rochester Hills [[2.42% black) might contract with the county voluntarily, but Pontiac [[51% black) might require some strong-arming to accede to it.

The philosophy of an outside police force can also be radically different. Did Pontiac police put a high priority on low-level drug arrests? You can be sure that Mike Bouchard, the local champion of continuing the failed War on Drugs will want every single minor drug arrest he can get. I'm sure it thrills the peaceful and otherwise law-abiding marijuana smokers of Pontiac to know they're now contracting with a confirmed Drug Warrior for their policing.

Anyway, let's not forget that local democracy is important. Powerful officials are always going to produce "dramatic" statistics to show that they're "getting stuff done." The democratic proposition, though, is whether or not the people themselves want something. And from scanning the news reports, it sounds like the debate over this was hurried and not exactly a model of democratic decision-making.

[Scottathew]

When I lived in Clawson I wanted them to contract out police services. I thought it didn't make sense for such a small city to have its own police force.

The citizens rejected it with the "identity" argument. Clawson now contracts out dispatch, but still has their own police force.

[luckycar]

I know we feel better at the lot.At least there is a police presence.Get the thugs and their gang punk wantabes off the streets,and jobs a chance for a nornal life will follow.

[Jimaz]

Wow. That ought to put quite a load on the courts and jails. It will be interesting to see if there's a corresponding effect on the crime rate.

[Detroitnerd]

In Hamtramck, the police were allowed to step up fines so they could raise about $60,000 a month to maintain their budget. I'm sure it worked out well for the PD, but the local court in Hamtramck turned into a freakin' ZOO. Seems to me a lot of the time the executive branch makes the bucks or the numbers, but then saddles the judiciary with the costs and headaches ...

[Dan]

As a business owner in Pontiac, I must say the police takeover has been terrific.

Fast response time and courteous officers.

[Gistok]

Well, the numbers are impressive, but there are good reasons for communities to want to resist outside policing.

When problems arise, the community will have to now appeal to the county government, which is arguably less beholden to the community.

Outside police are often seen as an occupying army, and seldom know the people, businesses and habits of that community.

Outside police are much more likely to make arrests in situations that could otherwise be defused. I'm thinking in particular of STATCOM-type policing, in which "making numbers" are paramount and the actual view from the street isn't as important. Just speculating, but were all 18 arrests for domestic violence calls really necessary? Who knows?

Contracting the Oakland County Sheriff means that tax dollars paid by local citizens go to outside employees. Those dollars no longer stay within the community. And, given police organizations' increasing reliance on forfeiture for funding, many other "community assets" could leave the city.

Good Lord Detroitnerd... you are starting to sound like that JoAnn Watson.... who doesn't care how much benefit a lower crime rate, or catching more criminals has... as long as it's ALL ABOUT LOCAL CONTROL... and local this and local that...

So what is preferable? Getting the job done.... or continue to let Pontiac slide downhill... as long as they still have local control...

[animatedmartian]

Anyway, let's not forget that local democracy is important. Powerful officials are always going to produce "dramatic" statistics to show that they're "getting stuff done." The democratic proposition, though, is whether or not the people themselves want something. And from scanning the news reports, it sounds like the debate over this was hurried and not exactly a model of democratic decision-making.

Well, that makes sense. I'd probably use "representation" rather than "identity" but I can see how people are wary of it. But I'd expect that relatives of criminal offenders would probably have a strong say in trying to defend them or refrain from helping police.

[Detroitnerd]

Good Lord Detroitnerd... you are starting to sound like that JoAnn Watson.... who doesn't care how much benefit a lower crime rate, or catching more criminals has... as long as it's ALL ABOUT LOCAL CONTROL... and local this and local that...

So what is preferable? Getting the job done.... or continue to let Pontiac slide downhill... as long as they still have local control...

Gistok, is that your response? To try to take my nuanced remarks and reduce them to a caricature? All I did was say that there are reasons Pontiac residents would object to contracting with the county. And I did my best to present a list of possible objections. If you have a bone to pick, why don't you concentrate on debunking the actual objections instead of resorting to caricatures and false either-or choices, OK?

[MikeyinBrooklyn]

Let me be the first to propose that the OC Sheriff's Dept take over for the Detroit Police Department.

Oh, just kidding. They don't have the manpower. I'm all for protecting people from getting killed, no matter who does the policing, though. And arrests- even for small infractions- are important. Most criminals don't commit crime just once. Get your B&E and low level drug dealers off the streets, and the murder rates go down.

[rjk]

In reference to domestic calls, if police see any evidence that a battery has taken place they have to make an arrest.

As far as outside police not knowing the people, it's stated in the article that the majority of deputies are former Pontiac policemen/woman.

[Detroitnerd]

MiB: We shouldn't even be talking about busting low-level drug dealers. We should be talking about legalizing and taxing drugs... not adding to decades of already-failed prohibition.

[Detroitnerd]

In reference to domestic calls, if police see any evidence that a battery has taken place they have to make an arrest.

Thanks for the insight.

As far as outside police not knowing the people, it's stated in the article that the majority of deputies are former Pontiac policemen/woman.

I wondered about that allegation in the article, because it wasn't necessarily attributed to anybody. And the quote from Elam, which is actually attributed, would seem to suggest that the deputies really didn't know the community, and vice-versa.

Elam: "I'm greatly encouraged by what I have seen already, but I would like to see more on the community side: meet and greet, that type of thing, where people get to know each other on a first-name basis."

[Detroitej72]

Outside police are often seen as an occupying army, and seldom know the people, businesses and habits of that community..

This argument is no longer valid because Big John repealed the residency requirement, thus most police no longer live in the communities which they serve.

Outside police are much more likely to make arrests in situations that could otherwise be defused. I'm thinking in particular of STATCOM-type policing, in which "making numbers" are paramount and the actual view from the street isn't as important.

I'd like to see some actual proof of this. If they were contracting to a private, for profit police company then you'd have a point, but not when your talking about civil servants.

Pontiac's minority population will likely have to deal with increased racial profiling as a result of this, yet another reason why a city like Rochester Hills [[2.42% black) might contract with the county voluntarily, but Pontiac [[51% black) might require some strong-arming to accede to it.

I seriously doubt the racial make-up of the old Pontiac PD was 51% black. In my own experience, I've seen more diversity among the Oakland County Sheriff's force than most communities forces.

[Patrick]

What are the benefits to having a regional police force compared to the drawbacks?

[Gistok]

Gistok, is that your response? To try to take my nuanced remarks and reduce them to a caricature? All I did was say that there are reasons Pontiac residents would object to contracting with the county. And I did my best to present a list of possible objections. If you have a bone to pick, why don't you concentrate on debunking the actual objections instead of resorting to caricatures and false either-or choices, OK?

Sorry DN... I was in a hurry...

But aren't the tradeoffs worth it? I can understand when the state comes into Detroit, takes over the school system, and then produces few tangible results [[I'm talking earlier this decade)....

So if there are fewer criminals and lawbreakers on the street... doesn't the ends justify the means?

Gotta run again...

[rjk]

As part of the agreement, the OC Sheriff Dept. agreed to hire all of the sworn Pontiac officers including some who were laid off.

[Detroitnerd]

Sorry DN... I was in a hurry...

But aren't the tradeoffs worth it? I can understand when the state comes into Detroit, takes over the school system, and then produces few tangible results [[I'm talking earlier this decade)....

So if there are fewer criminals and lawbreakers on the street... doesn't the ends justify the means?

Gotta run again...

Thanks, Gistok. You know, I'd be happy to talk about or dream about a real regional police force, just as I'd like to consider regional solutions to everything. But I just wanted to point out that "dramatic" numbers don't always mean excellent service and democracy for the people. And, despite all the praise for so-called "broken windows" policing in New York, let us recall that it coincided with a time when the rich began to move back into New York in droves. Wealth in a community is what improves crime statistics. How can you tell? Because, in New York, crime didn't disappear so much as it moved ... elsewhere, to the next poor neighborhood. Not exactly a good regional solution.

As for the ends justifying the means used to achieve them, yes, I have to say the means are more important. Democracy is important. I think in particular of that Grosse Pointe thread, where I'm certain many of the people in GP were all for giving the executive more power to decide the affairs of "troubled" cities by overriding their democratic decisions. When they found out it was to affect them, they thought perhaps they'd been too hasty. It's always easy to say that democracy can wait for other people as long as we get results. "You can't make an omelet without breaking a few eggs." But, as Sinclair Lewis pointed out in "It Can't Happen Here": "If I ever hear that 'can't make an omelet' phrase again, I'll start doing a little murder myself! It's used to justify every atrocity under every despotism, Fascist or Nazi or Communist or American labor war. Omelet! Eggs! By God, sir, men's souls and blood are not eggshells for tyrants to break!"

OK, the passionate polemical politics of the 1930s don't translate well to today's jaded ear. But, really: Ultimately, ends justifying the means is the mindset of tyranny. Of totalitarianism. And we should never want that, no matter how messy our lives are.

Now, if you wanted to have a regional police force that enforced the law all over, everybody would have a say in the sort of policing they got. We could go a long way toward getting police to do what they should be doing, protecting the public.

Finally, I object to Mike Bouchard having any more power than he already has. Just look at that asshole. With his phony smile, his political grandstanding, an executive perhaps less interested in fighting crime than in generating press releases and using his office as a political springboard [[flop). A regional police force? I'd go for that. But the idea of Bouchard moving in and being top cop in my neighborhood would make me want to puke with rage.

[Islandman]

In Hamtramck, the police were allowed to step up fines so they could raise about $60,000 a month to maintain their budget. I'm sure it worked out well for the PD, but the local court in Hamtramck turned into a freakin' ZOO. Seems to me a lot of the time the executive branch makes the bucks or the numbers, but then saddles the judiciary with the costs and headaches ...

That is the truth. I have to go there tomorrow and I'm already dreading it. You have to leave your cell in the car too, wtf?!? But I digress, carry on..

[iheartthed]

Why is everyone falling over themselves with praise for such a superficial metric? What happens when half of those turn out to be false arrests and Oakland County ends up with some civil rights lawsuits?

[Detroitnerd]

This argument is no longer valid because Big John repealed the residency requirement, thus most police no longer live in the communities which they serve.

You may be right. I wonder, though, what gets lost in institutional memory, knowledge of the community, etc. Frankly, I think residency requirements are fair and would like to see them reinstituted.

I'd like to see some actual proof of this. If they were contracting to a private, for profit police company then you'd have a point, but not when your talking about civil servants.

Oh, yes. The numbers game is all the rage. It's one of those policing "fads" you can trace to New York in the 1990s, enacted as an insatiable need for more arrests, higher numbers, viewing policing quantitatively as opposed to qualitatively. Since the STATCOM approach is now perceived as "best practices" by many PDs, I imagine that Oakland County's police department must have a similar mentality.

I seriously doubt the racial make-up of the old Pontiac PD was 51% black. In my own experience, I've seen more diversity among the Oakland County Sheriff's force than most communities forces.

The stats weren't for the police department, but the population.

[Detroitnerd]

What are the benefits to having a regional police force compared to the drawbacks?

The very idea of a regional police force is so alien to metro Detroit that I doubt there have been many serious discussions of it.

[Detroitnerd]

As part of the agreement, the OC Sheriff Dept. agreed to hire all of the sworn Pontiac officers including some who were laid off.

Thanks, rjk. I imagine there are some new faces, though, given Elam's quote, and that it isn't just deputized PPD cops patrolling Pontiac now. In fact, if it were only deputized PPD cops, what would account for the change?