This is how you eventually get regionalism.

[corktownyuppie]

I never really understood why Metro Detroit/Southeast Michigan is so addicted to their structure of inefficient fiefdoms when we could cooperate and have so much more to gain. I also was fortunate of to spend 6 years of my life at U-D Jesuit, so I guess I just thought everyone else saw it the same way.

From the Craig Fahle show on WDET:

Southeast Michigan has long been known as one of the most segregated regions in the nation. And nowhere is this more apparent than in the school systems that dot Metro Detroit. But there is a school in Detroit that turns this idea on its head…attracting students from more than 30 communities. As part of a series about people and institutions working to bring the Metro region together, WDET’s Noah Ovshinsky reports on a school that is seeing a level of popularity it hasn’t seen in decades.

GO CUBS!

[DetroitPlanner]

Yawn its also economically stratified. Rich people don't have the same barriers put up between them as working class people do. Divide and conquer thats how you stay in control.

My high school attracted kids from a lot more than 30 communities and we had everyone from cop's kids going there to the kid's of CEOs... oh and we had women too! It was Bishop Borgess. Schools like that were crushed. Only one left is Redeemer and its known now at Christo Rey.

[MikeyinBrooklyn]

"Rich people don't have the same barriers put up between them as working class people do."

I'm not commenting here on the topic directly, but I just wanted to comment that RICH PEOPLE WORK. The term "working class" is offensive because it lumps any person who might develope a dollop of sweat, regardless of education, ambition, intelligence, or anything else into the same group. I am by no stretch rich, and would be considered "working class," but I know it is wrong to divide people that way. We're individuals with our own problem, talents, and outlooks on life. No one is in need of anyone looking out for their "class." This is not colonial India for God's sake. We don't have castes!

Sorry for the rant, but I think it is belittling to use the term working class. Also, in my opinion, it creates the idea that there is "another side" that you must oppose and can't join. MOST rich people, didn't start that way. I hope to be rich one day, and you can bet your ass I will still be "working" for it.

[Detroitnerd]

"Rich people don't have the same barriers put up between them as working class people do."

I'm not commenting here on the topic directly, but I just wanted to comment that RICH PEOPLE WORK. The term "working class" is offensive because it lumps any person who might develope a dollop of sweat, regardless of education, ambition, intelligence, or anything else into the same group. I am by no stretch rich, and would be considered "working class," but I know it is wrong to divide people that way. We're individuals with our own problem, talents, and outlooks on life. No one is in need of anyone looking out for their "class." This is not colonial India for God's sake. We don't have castes!

Sorry for the rant, but I think it is belittling to use the term working class. Also, in my opinion, it creates the idea that there is "another side" that you must oppose and can't join. MOST rich people, didn't start that way. I hope to be rich one day, and you can bet your ass I will still be "working" for it.

The working class lives by selling its labor or starves.

The rich don't have to work. Many rich people don't work, and live on inheritances, trust funds or other mechanisms.

Now, that isn't to say that all rich people are parasites. Many are. Many profit from the misery of others [[their "work"). But there are some rich folks who are actually contributing to society. Mostly, they have to be forced to do that by the people through their government.

[GoGrixdale]

Is attending U-D Jesuit an indicator of rich?

At least with racism its easy to know what side of the war your on.

[MikeyinBrooklyn]

DetroitNerd: What planet are you from? Have you ever met a successful small business owner? My last boss owns three restaurants- very successful restaurants- in New York. She started as a hostess when she was 13. She did every job in the place through her teens. She scrounged to open her first place. She had 2 failures before having a hit. She now is finally worth quite a bit of money, and she still works 60+ hours a week. She washed dishes on the fourth of July when the dishwasher didn't show up. She is a hero and someone I want to emulate. She employs 250 people. If you are reliable and good at your job, she pays you well. And all management was promoted up from lower jobs. Because they worked hard! They lazy stay where they are. Let me tell you: THERE ARE A LOT MORE OF HER THAN THERE ARE FORD HEIRESSES. She isn't working class: she works with class. You don't attack your way to prosperity. You earn it.

[mwilbert]

Yawn its also economically stratified. Rich people don't have the same barriers put up between them as working class people do. Divide and conquer thats how you stay in control.

If you think that UDHS lacks working class kids, I think you are mistaken. If you think it is part of a plot to control the lower classes, I think you are very mistaken.

[English]

U of D definitely isn't this classist or elitist school. [[Then again, people think that my public high school, Renaissance was where all the rich or bourgeoisie kids went. My parents were too poor to buy my class ring -- I still don't have one from high school, college, or grad.)

I think socioeconomic class in the United States is more fuzzy than race and ethnicity, which is why we use the latter as a convenient proxy for us vs. them. Whoever came up with skin color as a definitive caste marker a half millennium ago [[or whenever) was diabolical -- but brilliant. Fine clothing [[Cinderella) or a fine education [[Eliza Doolittle) or enough money [[many others) can sometimes mask your class origins. Nothing can mask your racial origins -- you get entered into that lottery at birth, and there's nothing you can do to change it.

Anyway, I digress. U of D Jesuit is a local gem. It's a crying shame that so many other fine Catholic schools have left Detroit.

[corktownyuppie]

Ha. My first house had 5 people sharing a 2-bdrm, 1 bath house right by Denby High School. U-D High has plenty of rich kids. But it has plenty of non-rich kids, too. WHICH IS THE WAY IT SHOULD BE. Geographical and socio-economic diversity.

Btw...shout out to Cristo Rey, too. Their principal spent the early 00s as principal at U-D Jesuit and another 2 decades prior to that on faculty.

U-D for the rich? You must be confusing it with Cranbrook and Country Day. Yawn.

[corktownyuppie]

Many profit from the misery of others [[their "work"). But there are some rich folks who are actually contributing to society. Mostly, they have to be forced to do that by the people through their government.

Wow. You're kidding, right? Most rich people I know are the hardest working people I've ever met. Sure there are some exceptions, but they are exceptions, not the rule.

[Det_ard]

The working class lives by selling its labor or starves.

The rich don't have to work. Many rich people don't work, and live on inheritances, trust funds or other mechanisms.

Now, that isn't to say that all rich people are parasites. Many are. Many profit from the misery of others [[their "work"). But there are some rich folks who are actually contributing to society. Mostly, they have to be forced to do that by the people through their government.

Dude, you've got some serious issues.

[DetroitPlanner]

My comment had a certain amount of sarcasm. A co worker of mine who also went to Bishop Borgess ended up sending his son to U of D. I would rib him about how he was elitist.

[Detroitnerd]

DetroitNerd: What planet are you from? Have you ever met a successful small business owner? My last boss owns three restaurants- very successful restaurants- in New York. She started as a hostess when she was 13. She did every job in the place through her teens. She scrounged to open her first place. She had 2 failures before having a hit. She now is finally worth quite a bit of money, and she still works 60+ hours a week. She washed dishes on the fourth of July when the dishwasher didn't show up. She is a hero and someone I want to emulate. She employs 250 people. If you are reliable and good at your job, she pays you well. And all management was promoted up from lower jobs. Because they worked hard! They lazy stay where they are. Let me tell you: THERE ARE A LOT MORE OF HER THAN THERE ARE FORD HEIRESSES. She isn't working class: she works with class. You don't attack your way to prosperity. You earn it.

You admit friend isn't rich, just "worth quite a bit of money." The "elite" are rich. You know: the top .01 percent. Just because there are a lot more hard-working people than the elite doesn't matter. That's the whole point. That's what makes the elite the elite.

Anyway, look who's making generalizations, hmmm?

[Detroitnerd]

Dude, you've got some serious issues.

Dude, you don't have a point.

[DetroitPlanner]

You admit friend isn't rich, just "worth quite a bit of money." The "elite" are rich. You know: the top .01 percent. Just because there are a lot more hard-working people than the elite doesn't matter. That's the whole point. That's what makes the elite the elite.

Anyway, look who's making generalizations, hmmm?

I would aree. Someone who starts working at 13 is definitely working class.

[corktownyuppie]

I don't quite understand the anti-elitist mentality in Detroit. If anything, we need more elitists, not fewer. We should be thankful that there is an institution that brings the elite into the city, gives them an emotional connection to the city, gives them a reason to invest in the city, build their businesses in the city, employee people in the city, re-develop buildings in the city...

Considering that most of colleagues see me as far to the left, given my industry, I'm shocked that how frequently Detroiters I encounter see me as part of the problem instead of part of the solution.

"Rich people are taking the city back" "White people are taking over"

Seriously?

[Detroitnerd]

I don't quite understand the anti-elitist mentality in Detroit. If anything, we need more elitists, not fewer. We should be thankful that there is an institution that brings the elite into the city, gives them an emotional connection to the city, gives them a reason to invest in the city, build their businesses in the city, employee people in the city, re-develop buildings in the city...

Considering that most of colleagues see me as far to the left, given my industry, I'm shocked that how frequently Detroiters I encounter see me as part of the problem instead of part of the solution.

"Rich people are taking the city back" "White people are taking over"

Seriously?

I'm not sure if this helps shed any light on the topic, but I am familiar with inner-city residents' suspicion of proposed improvements. For a long time, this has played out as fights against large projects, industrial expansions, freeway-building and eminent domain. In that sense, Detroiters do have a long history of fighting to hold onto their property in the face of large governmental and industrial players. But it's hard to stack that up against what you're saying, because, compared to that legacy, the small amounts of gentrification in the city are small potatoes. When they're gentrifying Hamilton Avenue, then we can talk about white moneyed people changing the face of the city, right?

[corktownyuppie]

I'm not sure if this helps shed any light on the topic, but I am familiar with inner-city residents' suspicion of proposed improvements. For a long time, this has played out as fights against large projects, industrial expansions, freeway-building and eminent domain. In that sense, Detroiters do have a long history of fighting to hold onto their property in the face of large governmental and industrial players. But it's hard to stack that up against what you're saying, because, compared to that legacy, the small amounts of gentrification in the city are small potatoes. When they're gentrifying Hamilton Avenue, then we can talk about white moneyed people changing the face of the city, right?

Right When Davison/Dexter turns into a neighborhood of $300,000 townhouses with a Crate & Barrel and an Ikea, then we can talk about the social costs of economic improvement!

[lilpup]

corktownyuppie, you are apparently also one of the many who feel they'd gain from regional cooperation. For those who gain there will be those who lose. You need to understand views on both sides of the issue and find solutions accordingly.

Secondly, you need to learn a lot more about the region's history. Many of the immigrants and Depression area laborers who settled here and defined a successful Detroit came from areas where they were oppressed by the wealthy and powerful. As a result people here tend to split into two groups - the "I, me, mine"s and those who lean more toward populist/socialist thinking. Henry Ford was a huge populist, doing things for his employees well above and beyond anything today's "elites" even *think* of doing. If we had more like Ford we'd be far better off as a nation but we don't so the divide is ever-increasing [[btw the consolidation of wealth in the US right now is the greatest it's ever been).

[Detroitnerd]

Ford is more complicated than that. He'd give the workers HIS heaven, and on HIS terms. He employed a ruthless group of secret police and would fire anybody who whispered about a union, and wanted workers who didn't drink or smoke. As for his feelings about Jews ...

[lilpup]

Ford is more complicated than that. He'd give the workers HIS heaven, and on HIS terms. He employed a ruthless group of secret police and would fire anybody who whispered about a union, and wanted workers who didn't drink or smoke. As for his feelings about Jews ...

That was in much later years and those who were willing to work didn't have problems with them. Ford didn't have a problem with smokers or drinkers unless it interfered with their work. And the whole Jewish thing is blown waaaay out of proportion.

[iheartthed]

corktownyuppie, you are apparently also one of the many who feel they'd gain from regional cooperation. For those who gain there will be those who lose. You need to understand views on both sides of the issue and find solutions accordingly.

Secondly, you need to learn a lot more about the region's history. Many of the immigrants and Depression area laborers who settled here and defined a successful Detroit came from areas where they were oppressed by the wealthy and powerful. As a result people here tend to split into two groups - the "I, me, mine"s and those who lean more toward populist/socialist thinking. Henry Ford was a huge populist, doing things for his employees well above and beyond anything today's "elites" even *think* of doing. If we had more like Ford we'd be far better off as a nation but we don't so the divide is ever-increasing [[btw the consolidation of wealth in the US right now is the greatest it's ever been).

Umm, wow. There is a lot here that is just factually incorrect, forget about a difference of opinion. I'll just put two things out here: 1) Henry Ford was not an altruistic populist [[or a populist at all). He was fervently anti-union and he recruited black labor from the South solely for the purpose of busting the all white unions who initially refused black membership. [[He was also unapologetically racist, so he wasn't shipping up the blacks because he enjoyed their company.) 2) The concentration of wealth in the U.S. now is the greatest it's been since the onset of the Great Depression [[which also happens to coincide with the era of Henry Ford).

[corktownyuppie]

corktownyuppie, you are apparently also one of the many who feel they'd gain from regional cooperation. For those who gain there will be those who lose. You need to understand views on both sides of the issue and find solutions accordingly.

Secondly, you need to learn a lot more about the region's history. Many of the immigrants and Depression area laborers who settled here and defined a successful Detroit came from areas where they were oppressed by the wealthy and powerful. As a result people here tend to split into two groups - the "I, me, mine"s and those who lean more toward populist/socialist thinking. Henry Ford was a huge populist, doing things for his employees well above and beyond anything today's "elites" even *think* of doing. If we had more like Ford we'd be far better off as a nation but we don't so the divide is ever-increasing [[btw the consolidation of wealth in the US right now is the greatest it's ever been).

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree.

[[1) When regionalism is practiced effectively, it's not a zero-sum game with winners and losers. It's an expanding pie, and everyone will improve. Could you imagine if we had a centralized location for hotels, tourism, sports, theater? And if 40 municipalities kicked in funds to make it safe and service it right, with revenues shared with everyone?

Imagine Las Vegas, but instead of one strip with 20 great hotels, they're spread out with a 20 minute drive between them. It's not really Las Vegas, is it.

[[2) Perhaps I need to learn more about our history. I think more people need to forget about it and leave it in the past. Are we really arguing about what Henry Ford did and didn't believe?

I have a better idea. Rather than argue about who did what to who 20, 40, and 60 years ago...how about we learn about what IS and ISN'T working in various cities and various cultures in the PRESENT.

There's lots of hurt and lots of animosity on all sides, much of which is justified. And I think everyone will get a chance to tell their side of the story eventually. But in the meantime, how about we figure out how to get along, find common ground, and use resources in ways that act as force multipliers.

In a healthy, effective culture, 1+1=3
In Metro Detroit, 1+1=.5

That's what needs to change.

[lilpup]

Ford was very much a populist and was not anti-black. As matter of fact his own grandsons apprenticed under blacks at the company. He started schools and hospitals. He paid better than all his competition AND introduced the 40 hour work week decades before the UAW existed. He regularly offered benefits to employees the general public did not get [[such as coal coke at reduced rates for home heating delivered to the home by a company truck as well as making garden plots available on company land for those who didn't have land of their own to plant).

It's always the muckrakers who repeat their memes until they are taken as fact at the exclusion of all else.

[lilpup]

Imagine Las Vegas, but instead of one strip with 20 great hotels, they're spread out with a 20 minute drive between them. It's not really Las Vegas, is it.

Wow, is that ever a bad example [[know the condition of Vegas right now?)