Transit Idea

[MikeyinBrooklyn]

I had an idea [[I am probably not the first to have it, but I've never seen it posted here). What if all public transit systems in Michigan [[Detroit, suburban, Ann Arbor, Lansing, Flint, Grand Rapids bus systems, People Mover, any future light rail) used a universal pass card [[metrocard, call it whatever)? One card that could be used on any of these systems. I think it could be a way of making mass transit easier to use and would lead to more people using mass transit. MDOT could run the card system.

I figure that there would be 2 types of cards [[like they had in NYC when I lived there). First, a debit-system card, where you load any amount you like on them. When swiped, the fare value is deducted and given to the transit system you entered. The second would be for daily/weekly/monthly unlimited passes. MDOT would collect all money on unlimited cards, and distribute the money to local transit systems based on how many unlimited swipes there were in a given month [[i.e., if DDOT buses had 55% of the swipes statewide, DDOT would get 55% of that month's unlimited swipe money).

This could make transferring easy between different lines/systems. Visitors might also find it easier, knowing they have access to different systems, and don't have to worry about correct change. fare, etc. Also, college kids who live back and forth between home and school could use it on both systems.

I know I use the PM and buses in Detroit, and I go to Lansing/ East Lansing and Ann Arbor several times a year, but never use the transit systems in those cities. I don't know why. I used CATA in East Lansing daily when I was at MSU. A mass transit rider in any part of the state would have in their head that they have ready transit in any other urban part of the state they travel to. More broadly, it woud help to create the vision [[hopefully one day reality) that mass transit in Michigan is one interchangeable system. You can drive your car on any Michigan road, you should be able to "ride your card" on any Michigan transit system.

In fact this card could also be accepted at municipal parking garages/ meters. You could park in downtown Ann Arbor and then take an AA bus Michigan Stadium.

Although I don't know the details, I wouldn't think this would be either time consuming or highly expensive to implement. The technology and equipment are already in existence. It would just require installation, and could be phased in.

What do you think?

[stasu1213]

I think that it is a good idea. Most ideas to help revitalize the region come from average non political people such as who are on thise site not from the politicians who are selected not to look out for the people of this region.

[professorscott]

It's a good idea. There are two issues that would have to be overcome, and the second one would cost money:

1. MDOT will not do this. MDOT has absolutely no role in transit operations anywhere in the state. Somebody else would have to manage this card business, and one of the interesting questions to answer would be which operator gets how much of the card revenue? This is not something impossible to overcome, IMO, but it has to be figured out.

2. The agencies do not have compatible fare-collection equipment. DDOT and SMART do, they can [[and do) accept some of each other's fare media. The People Mover, if it continues to operate at all, has its own type of pass, but I don't think the card swipe machines at the DPM stations could even read the DDOT or SMART passes or cards. The other bus systems I know very little about, but in Port Huron for instance the buses have no card reading technology of any kind. So the various agencies would have to retrofit their fare collection equipment, and the money for that would have to come from somewhere.

So it's a great idea, but it crashes against the same two rocks that have killed every good transit idea for 90 years: politics and money.

[MikeyinBrooklyn]

Hey ProfScot,
Thanks for the feedback. Whatever agency distributes mass transit money from the state [[I think all local transit systems in Michigan get some money from the state) should operate the card system. I guess that's not MDOT. Do they just do roads? The details would need to be worked out, but I don't think they'd be the most contentious details ever. At the end of the day [[or end of the year, as the case may be) I would suspect each system would have more money than it otherwise would.

As for the equipment, I can't imagine it would cost mega millions. It's not like Michigan has tens of thousands of transit buses and train cars. I imagine also phasing it in over a couple of years. The card vending machines would also offer mucho advertising opportunities all over the place, not that I suspect that ads could fund most of the system...

Not having interchangeability benefits no one. SImilar to railroads in the 19th century having different gauge tracks. Railroads made more money when they standardized equipment.

[laphoque]

It should be RFID cards anyway. Boston, DC, & Baltimore have them, they're much quicker. You don't even have to take them out of your wallet. It appears the machines in those cities were retrofitted. Perhaps the same could be done here.

[JBMcB]

How about this: There's a website, and a corresponding smartphone app. You tell it where you are [[or it figures it out if you're using a GPS smartphone or kiosk) and where you'd like to go. It gives you a variety of options on how to get there via train/bus/whatever, the travel times and rates. You hit a button and your account is billed for the trip [[or you pay at a kiosk) and your transit card is activated for whatever transfers and legs you need for your trip. If you have to make connections, your smartphone app tells you where to go, or you check in at a kiosk with your transit card and it will tell you where to go next [[what bus/train to get on, whatever) If you make the same routes over and over, your card can learn this and you can prepay for so many trips and get a discount. Of course, this is all assuming that the corresponding governmental agencies respond to consumer needs and have a vested interest in operating efficiently and providing value to their citizens. It's all unlikely to happen.

[professorscott]

Replying to various thoughts in the last few postings:

1. MikeyinBrooklyn, you are right that the state channels the transit funding that flows in from mostly federal funds, but they aren't involved with operations and this would be seen as an operations issue. Really we need an RTA then that would be the obvious choice. Also, you are right that the number of fareboxes to be converted is not huge; DPM has, I think, about 100 fare machines altogether, and DDOT and SMART each have a couple hundred. It's mostly a matter of finding the will to do it, then finding the money [[as electronic transit fare boxes do not come cheap).

2. laphoque, RFID is very modern; if they are going to convert fareboxes at all, this would be a good idea. My concern is that the RFID tag cards are quite pricey compared to old-fashioned magstripe. Remember everybody around here is more or less broke right now. But I like the idea.

3. JBMcB, although not all bus users have access to the technologies you are working with, you are definitely thinking in terms of the real future of fare payments for all kinds of things: transit, toll roads, retail stores. Imagine the Meijer store of the future: as you pick items off the shelf, a proximity tag reader on your smart phone keeps track of your purchases; when you are done you just leave the store, and a transponder at the doorways charges your preregistered credit card for what you've purchased. For transit, not only could you pay your fares that way, but you could snap a photo of the QR code on your bus-stop sign and your phone will tell you when the next bus is coming.

Great ideas everyone! I will make sure my various colleagues in the transit business have access to your creativity.

[DetroitPlanner]

Mikey, MDOT has a major role in adminstrating federal transit dollars. It also provides state funding to transit agencies through the CTF [[comprehensive transportation funds) which is slightly less than ten percent of what is collected from the gasoline taxes and vehicle registration funds.

They do not however run transit services. Ideally a statewide authority could be established that would take over much of the MDOT adminstration and also implement the card you suggested. This however is a hard sell because this state is very home rule in nature. There is currently an agency known as the RTCC that does this for DDOT and SMART, but due to home rule politics it is not as effective as it could be.