GM: Taking the fight to Warren

[Huggybear]

It must be a month of slow news Sundays when we see all this chatter in the papers about whether GM will move its headquarters. Mayor Fouts makes some noise and tries to poach a business from Detroit. GM [[with much bigger fish to fry) has no definite comment. And all we get is reiterations of the same story.

If Fouts wants to open that door, why doesn't Detroit make a play for all of GM's people, including the ones in the Tech Center? Detroit has access to tax credits that Warren can only dream of; it has tons of land to give away [[let's start with City Airport...); the presidential administration likes the D; it owns the waterfront; and let's face it: the Tech Center is nice, but it's in one of the ugliest, most dated areas of inner suburbia. If the best and the brightest are reluctant to come to Michigan or Detroit, imagine what they will think when they see the Campbell-Ewald building.

No reason for Detroit to be on the defensive here; fifty years should be ample proof that being reactive simply does not work. You can fault the medieval crusades for a lot of things, but you can't fault one aspect: when your enemies are at your gates, the best defense might be hitting them all the way back where they sleep.

[Crumbled_pavement]

If Detroit was smart it would go after a lot of the region's businesses. Many of those businesses would prefer to be located in the urban center. Problem is that leadership in Detroit is more concerned with "getting theirs" than with producing a competitive viable city.

[Sstashmoo]

Quote: "Many of those businesses would prefer to be located in the urban center."

Not as long as the crime situation is like it is [[the reason the left to begin with), and now the lack of police action towards crime. Who wants to move a business into an area if they get broken into nobody shows up? Free would be too expensive.

[MrNittany]

I don't know all the costs/benefits, but if GM would be moving employees from Detroit to Warren or vice-versa, the latter intuitively seems preferable. Center your employees in Downtown where you're already in a good location.

Warren could "win" as well, since that would be a whole square mile available for in-fill housing development [[hopefully, done right, the stuff west of Mound between 12 and 13 Miles I don't find attractive).

Off-topic, but since the Campbell-Ewald Building was mentioned, it's simply bizarre that an advertising agency ....... where you want to attract top-notch creative types ....... is in one of the drabbest buildings on Planet Earth.

[Retroit]

I think that the deal that Bing & Ficano offerred to GM at Mackinaw Island today involved all the land from the RenCen to the Belle-Isle Bridge.

Watch the news tonight. I'm sure they'll talk about it.

[Crumbled_pavement]

Quote: "Many of those businesses would prefer to be located in the urban center."

Not as long as the crime situation is like it is [[the reason the left to begin with), and now the lack of police action towards crime. Who wants to move a business into an area if they get broken into nobody shows up? Free would be too expensive.

I knew I was going to get this response, which is why I said "urban center." These businesses are not against being in an urban environment, they're against the conditions they would face in Detroit. But if Detroit's leadership wasn't preoccupied trying to "get theirs" then they would have tackled the crime, high taxes, blight, etc, etc, insert rant, etc, etc, issues that currently plague the city. Creating a competitive city would entail fixing those issues, no? Do you not agree?

[Novine]

"If Fouts wants to open that door, why doesn't Detroit make a play for all of GM's people, including the ones in the Tech Center? "

If you're a company going into bankruptcy, doing a massive upheaval of your tech center operations probably makes little sense financially or operationally, no matter what Detroit can offer. If it was about tax dollars, GM could have left Warren years ago for a greenfield in Oakland County.

[Stosh]

I like the idea about the renaissance zone concept for the Ren Cen. That will be great for GM, and great for the businesses that could come in and fill the center to capacity.

I'm hoping that somewhere within all this Ren Zone talk, that they put the conditions that only existing and NEW businesses can benefit from the tax break there. Otherwise, they'll just be leaching the businesses from the surrounding CBD.

[MIRepublic]

Warren could "win" as well, since that would be a whole square mile available for in-fill housing development [[hopefully, done right, the stuff west of Mound between 12 and 13 Miles I don't find attractive).

That makes no sense. Warren's population has been declining for decades [[though, it's starting to level off as is much of the inner-ring) and you need jobs to justify building mounds of new housing. They aren't even building housing by the subdivision in Canton, anymore, let alone Warren.

No, Warren is lucky that GM hasn't went under, yet, and that's about all Warren has, these days. Of all of the cities in the Metro, Warren is about as close as you're going to get to becoming the next Detroit, but without the history and status. A swift wind, and it's over, and I think Fouts knows that better than anyone else.

[Bearinabox]

That makes no sense. Warren's population has been declining for decades [[though, it's starting to level off as is much of the inner-ring) and you need jobs to justify building mounds of new housing. They aren't even building housing by the subdivision in Canton, anymore, let alone Warren.

No, Warren is lucky that GM hasn't went under, yet, and that's about all Warren has, these days. Of all of the cities in the Metro, Warren is about as close as you're going to get to becoming the next Detroit, but without the history and status. A swift wind, and it's over, and I think Fouts knows that better than anyone else.

Seems as though if he did "know that better than anyone else," he'd be trying to end the animosity between Warren and Detroit, not exacerbate it. Maybe he understands the situation he's in, but he doesn't seem to understand the reasons he's in that situation or how to get out of it.

[Det_ard]

Maybe, channeling one of the conspiracy theorists on here, Fouts and GM made a deal to scare Detroit and Michigan into offering huge tax abatements and incentives. In exchange, GM promises to maintain their current headcount in Warren. Bottom line, GM benefits, Warren benefits, Detroit maintains status quo albeit at a significant cost in foregone revenue, and Michigan loses. Clever, those guys.

[sharmaal]

There are facilities at the Tech Center [[and other Auto R&D Centers) that a Skyscraper would not be conducive for.

[MIRepublic]

Seems as though if he did "know that better than anyone else," he'd be trying to end the animosity between Warren and Detroit, not exacerbate it. Maybe he understands the situation he's in, but he doesn't seem to understand the reasons he's in that situation or how to get out of it.

I don't think that's it. I think everyone gets the situation and understands the reason that the region is in the situation it's in. Everyone's fighting for a shrinking pie of the pie, and aren't willing to publically admit that an all-in rejuvination of the city of Detroit is the only thing that's even going to give the region even a shot at rising, again. At this moment, if anything, the region should realize that the only hope left is to bring its resources [[human, infrastructure, etc) back towards the center of the region, not spreading the area thinner than it's already spread. Even Patterson said at Mackinac, the other day, that he wishes more municipalities would consider consolidation but that it's not going to happen.

[crawford]

What a bunch of hypocrites. Warren wanting GM is "bad", but Detroit wanting Quicken is "good."

Why exactly?

[Crumbled_pavement]

What a bunch of hypocrites. Warren wanting GM is "bad", but Detroit wanting Quicken is "good."

Why exactly?

Detroit should be greedy and want it all. However, Detroit is restricted to 139 square miles. This is usually what causes growth in metro areas, because there just simply isn't the room within the core city to contain all the growth. In this area though, the growth of the region, or sprawl, is because everyone is trying to get away from Detroit. A healthy core usually results in a healthy outer region. A healthy outer region doesn't guarantee a healthy core.

[crawford]

Warren isn't the "outer region"; it's just as much the core as Detroit. There is absolutely no difference in density between the Warren and Detroit sides of 8 Mile. It's not like some township in Livingston County is trying to lure GM.

I agree that Detroit SHOULD be greedy; however the same holds true for Warren.

And the "healthy core is necessary for healthy outer region" is obvious B.S.

LA, Phoenix, Atlanta, Miami, Dallas, Houston, etc. etc. all have weak and pathetic cores [[many of these cores are weaker than Detroit's core), yet they have some of the fastest American population and economic growth in the past half century.

Oakland County has become one of the richest and most successful places on earth, and did it concurrent with the destruction of Detroit. You really thing Big Beaver Road would be stronger if downtown Detroit were stronger?

[Novine]

"Detroit and Wayne County will take a tax hit if General Motors Corp. accepts a tax-free renaissance zone — but the consequences are far worse, said Wayne County Executive Robert Ficano"

http://www.crainsdetroit.com/article...FREE/905299978

"Ficano said he didn’t know how much GM paid to the county in taxes last year. "

He's offered to give away the farm but doesn't know what he's offering? No wonder Wayne County's budget is a perpetual disaster. The suggestion that GM is playing Warren against Detroit to score a massive tax break looks like it's on the money.

[Bearinabox]

Warren isn't the "outer region"; it's just as much the core as Detroit.

Okay, you don't know what you're talking about...next!

[MIRepublic]

Detroit's the historic central city, Warren is a suburb. I've never quite understood why anyone believes that the relationship should be the same in both directions.

BTW, concurrent is hardly the most appropriate adjective or phrase; it's far too kind.

Oh, and Ficano and Bing don't really have another option, unless moving to Warren is an option. I was surprised, but pleasantly, to see Bing's words for Fouts, yesterday.

[croweblack]

What a bunch of hypocrites. Warren wanting GM is "bad", but Detroit wanting Quicken is "good."

Why exactly?

spot on!!!

I also love how some people actually believe companies want to go downtown with the crime, high taxes, horrible schools and corrupt city government.

If I was a ren cen gm worker I would be ecstatic about the move-NO MORE CITY OF DETROIT INCOME TAX!!!

[Crumbled_pavement]

spot on!!!

I also love how some people actually believe companies want to go downtown with the crime, high taxes, horrible schools and corrupt city government.

If I was a ren cen gm worker I would be ecstatic about the move-NO MORE CITY OF DETROIT INCOME TAX!!!

I guess it's mandated that a downtown have crime, high taxes, horrible schools and corrupt city government. Silly me, I thought a downtown could be created without those things. Minus those things you still think NO COMPANY would want to locate in the central city? See the post I left for Sstashmoo that he has yet to respond to.

P.S.: For those who are dense, there are lots of companies that the only reason they locate out of the city is the taxes and red tape. If Detroit became competitive then they would tackle that issue. This suggests to me that companies DO want to locate in the central city. It's just the leadership doesn't remove the roadblocks that make it difficult for companies to do so.

[French777]

What a bunch of hypocrites. Warren wanting GM is "bad", but Detroit wanting Quicken is "good."

Why exactly?

Detroit has suffered so much in the past 30+ years. A stronger Detroit means a stronger region!

also Its not like Livonia will go bankrupt without Quicken.

[Patrick]

Off-topic, but since the Campbell-Ewald Building was mentioned, it's simply bizarre that an advertising agency ....... where you want to attract top-notch creative types ....... is in one of the drabbest buildings on Planet Earth.

-A LOT of ad agencies are located on drab boring suburban offices. No offense, but ther architecture is NOT going to bring out the creativity in your workforce

Of all of the cities in the Metro, Warren is about as close as you're going to get to becoming the next Detroit, but without the history and status

-Much of Warren’s problems are due to its close proximity to Detroit along with an aging population.

What a bunch of hypocrites. Warren wanting GM is "bad", but Detroit wanting Quicken is "good."

-There ya go. Bout time someone finally mentioned that.

[crawford]

Okay, you don't know what you're talking about...next!

My bad, Bear.

I assumed you had at least some knowledge of the past half century in metro Detroit. I didn't know you were posting from a retirement home in Florida, and hadn't set foot in Michigan since the Cavanaugh administration.

Quick recap of the last 50 years:
1. Warren is no longer an exurb. It's old, dense, and declining.
2. Detroit is no longer the region's job center, and has lost 60% of its population.
3. Oakland County is the region's population and job center.
4. Downtown Detroit is a long way from the region's executive neighborhoods.
5. Proximity to Bloomfield Hills is probably the biggest factor in white collar relocation decisions.
6. The Honeymooners was cancelled, but is still in syndication.

[French777]

Warren is so ugly and boring! just like the rest of Macomb county.

Why are people who don't want Detroit to become better even on this forum?

Its not WarrenYes! it is DetroitYes!