DDOT considering raising People Mover fare

**MSUguy** · August-31-11, 02:45 PM

The city is looking at raising fares on the Detroit People Mover for the first time since it opened in 1987.
The People Mover’s board will meet this afternoon to discuss potentially doubling the 50-cent fare for a ride on the 2.9-mile elevated rail line that circles downtown. The board asked People Mover staff to propose ways to raise revenue for the service, which has seen $1 million in cuts for its operations budget as the city deals with its ongoing financial crisis

The People Mover will hold public hearings on the proposed fare increase from 6-8 p.m. Sept. 20 at the Rosa Parks Transit Center and noon-2 p.m. Sept. 21 at the Madison Building at 1420 Washington Blvd. In addition, comment cards will be accepted from the public noon-5 p.m. Sept. 22 at the People Mover’s Renaissance Center station.

http://www.freep.com/article/2011083...text|FRONTPAGE

**cramerro** · August-31-11, 02:52 PM

As a minor point of detail, the People Mover is not part of DDOT. It is run by the Detroit Transportation Corporation [[DTC) and has a separate pot of funding both Federal and City from the DDOT.

**Russix** · August-31-11, 03:10 PM

They should mothball the thing until they actually feed mass transit into it. Circulators are rather useless without connectors.

**401don** · August-31-11, 03:16 PM

It's way overdue for an increase and I just don't see doubling the fare resulting in more than a 10-15% decrease in ridership, which would be a big revenue gain.

You guys should finally switch to dollar coins. In Canada we get used to having a few "loonies" in our pocket and it doesn't seem like you're spending as much as 4 quarters. Of course, that's not always a good thing. But they are way more convenient for vending, transit, etc.

**rjk** · August-31-11, 03:16 PM

Does anyone under the age of 65 with two good legs actually use this thing?
By the time you get your token and wait for the PM you can get to almost anywhere along the track by walking there.

**Rocko** · August-31-11, 04:14 PM

Here is a full article from the front page of today's Detroit News:

August 31. 2011 1:00AM
Detroit People Mover seeks first fare hike

Darren A. Nichols and Josh Katzenstein/ The Detroit News

Detroit —The Detroit People Mover wants to raise fares for the first time in its often derided, consistently money-losing history.

Weeks after the City Council trimmed the system's $4.4 million annual subsidy by $1 million, officials who operate the trains that have circled downtown since 1987 plan to meet today to consider boosting the 50-cent fare.

The Detroit Transportation Corp. has scheduled three public hearings in September over the change, but officials won't reveal what they're proposing until its board meets at 3 p.m. today.

Some City Council members say the increase is overdue, since the system was supposed to be self-sufficient when it opened.

It's never come close: In 2010, $900,000 of its $10.7 million in revenue came from fares, while most of the rest came from state, city and federal coffers.

"We're in a financial crisis, and what people need to realize is when the cost of living increases, so does the cost of running the system," said City Council President Charles Pugh.

"We just can't keep expecting only general fund tax dollars to fund [[the system). Public transit is a necessity."

City subsidies declining

The move comes as city subsidies are continually declining. Two years ago, the city gave $6.2 million, and in July, council members suggested officials explore a fare increase.

Ericka Alexander, People Mover spokeswoman, said infrastructure improvements are necessary but cautioned the hike is "only a discussion, it's not official."

Council President Pro Tem Gary Brown suggested the fares should double to $1. "We can't continue to supplement that budget," he said. "At some point, the
People Mover has to be self-sufficient. That will at least move us in that direction."

It's uncertain, though, how big an increase users would tolerate before abandoning the 2.9-mile loop.

Annual ridership inched up to 2.2 million in 2010, and other than a few bad years, it's remained mostly flat for about 15 years, said the American Public Transportation Association.

At midafternoon Tuesday, most cars had fewer than eight riders apiece.
Most said they wouldn't mind an increase to 75 cents, but some would reconsider if fares jump to $1.

That would generate roughly $1 million for the 13-stop system, but it would force downtown worker Tony Beran to find another way to lunch.

"It's going to out-price it for the limited availability," said Beran, who lives in Dearborn and rides the system three or four times a week.

Others such as Clark Lake resident Helene McComb called the system a bargain.
After all, its fares have remained steady since 1987, while costs for a first-class stamp doubled to 44 cents and a gallon of regular gas more than tripled from 95 cents to $3.77.

'They will lose patrons'

"I love it," McComb said. "They probably shouldn't raise it because they will lose patrons."

Meagan Owens, executive director of Transportation Riders United, said some fare increase seems "legitimate" but needed more details before extensively commenting.

"We want to make sure whatever fare that's being asked is justified," she said. "There needs to be a clear justification as to why it is necessary and other cuts that have been made. [[But) they are providing a key service to a lot of people."

The system has had a mixed reputation since it opened 24 years ago, $63 million over budget and two years behind schedule.

Proposed in the mid-1970s as the first of several federally funded people movers, the system encountered so many construction problems the feds wanted to end funding two years before it opened.

Former Mayor Coleman A. Young promised it would lead to downtown development, but critics complained it goes nowhere.

The rail was originally envisioned as the final link to a larger light rail system from the suburbs. Funding never materialized.

"It seems pointless to me," said Jeff Nieman, 24, who lives in Ohio and rode the train Tuesday.

Current plans for the $550 million light rail up Woodward Avenue also don't include a direct link to the People Mover.

Carmine Palombo, director of transportation for the Southeast Michigan Council of Governments, said the system's image problems are largely undeserved.

"The People Mover gets a bad reputation because people say it doesn't go anywhere, but in and of itself, it's pretty functional for getting you from one side of downtown to another conveniently," Palombo said.

Few, if any, public transportation systems break even, Palombo said.
On most systems, fares comprise about 15-30 percent of revenue.

It's closer to 8 percent for the People Mover, according to a 2010 state audit.

The system in recent years has broadened its revenue sources, draping trains in advertisements and signing a one-year, $120,000 contract this year with a cellphone provider to add logos and rename the Greektown station the "MetroPCS Greektown Station."

Pugh said that's a good step, but more has to be done.

"It's time," he said. "It's been 50 cents since it started and we also have to step up our game on naming rights and other options."

dnichols@detnews.com

[[313) 222-2073

From The Detroit News: http://detnews.com/article/20110831/...#ixzz1WdxCj8S2

**Rocko** · August-31-11, 04:15 PM

And a follow up from detroitnews.com this afternoon. Fares will rise to 75 cents.

August 31. 2011 4:42PM
People Mover officials boost fares, warn more cuts may come

Darren A. Nichols/ The Detroit News

Detroit— Detroit People Mover officials will boost rates for the first time in the system's history, but warn the system is running dangerously low on money.

System officials voted Wednesday to boost rates to 75 cents from 50 cents, but say its cash reserves are so low the 2.9-mile loop around downtown only has enough money to operate through December. In a worst-case scenario, that could
mean the system isn't running at full capacity for January's North American
International Auto Show.

The warning comes after the City Council cut the People Mover subsidy by $1 million to $3.4 million. That triggered a multimillion dollar cut to state aid that imperils the system, officials said.

The system is forming a committee to explore options, which could include limited routes or layoffs.

The 13-stop loop has experienced money problems since opening in 1987.

From The Detroit News: http://detnews.com/article/20110831/...#ixzz1Wdxwy8GZ

**mikeg19** · August-31-11, 04:26 PM

The only time me or my friends use the People Mover is when it's freezing outside and we wanna go around town, whether it be from Greektown to a Wings game or whatever. If they wanna increase revenue and save money, limit the hours during the summer in which it runs unless there is an event going on [[Tigers, concerts, etc.) because everyone walks if it's halfway decent out. Raise the fare to $1 [[which they already screwed up by only going to $.75). It's been operating for almost a quarter century and has NEVER had a raise in fare's, yet the expense to operate it has gone up I'm sure quite a bit. Ask anyone in Boston or New York if their subway fare's have gone up in a quarter century, and I'd bet a million dollars it's gone up quite a bit. Obviously, I'm not comparing those extensive systems to our crappy little loop, but I think you guys get the point....

**Rocko** · August-31-11, 04:34 PM

RAISING FARES TO $1 IS COMPLETELY FAIR!

The $.50 fare was established in 1987 as the base fare for the People Mover, and the price has not increased since that time. I've just used three separate online inflation calculators to see what $.50 in 1987 translates to in 2010 or 2011 dollars. The results come back as between $.95 and $.99. I see the DTC has just voted to raise the base fare to 75 cents. In my opinion, this should be an incremental move with the idea that a future increase [[6 month or a year or something like that) will move the fare to $1. I would not pay more than $1, but $1 seems reasonable. Large quantities of tokens should still be offered at a discount as should monthly riding passes.

Despite the lack of a destination and never living up to our man Coleman's promises, the DPM does play an important role in the limited public transit system Detroit has. And I'm only 26 and have two very usable legs. I often park at the Compuware Garage and then jump on the DPM to my destination, whatever that may be. When I have friends and guests visiting Detroit, I always taken them for a loop or two around. It is well used by fans going to sporting events, and Greektown Casino patrons.

Despite what has been written, it will have several transfer points to the most-recent final version of the Woodward Light Rail: Grand Circus Park, Cobo, and Michigan Avenue. YES, the transfer may not be across the platform, but a simply hop across one street and up to DPM level will accomplish that. The outbound route down Larned may also be able to meet up with DPM at the Financial District station.

Despite the People Mover's falling short of Coleman's initial promises, the niche it has become is an important one. YES, trains do run empty at certain hours of the day. But 2.2 million passengers is no small number.

DDOT should take a page from DTC and work to incrementally raise fares as well, helping to improve the farebox recovery ratio for the bus system.

Maybe they should reintroduce the DPM "ride ride ride" song! Here it is in case you've forgotten: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-OyeJDHVcCA

See you at the train station, with my 75 cents in hand!

http://www.greatrealtyusa.com/realtors/MI/Detroit.htm

**Gistok** · August-31-11, 04:38 PM

Originally Posted by rjk

Does anyone under the age of 65 with two good legs actually use this thing?
By the time you get your token and wait for the PM you can get to almost anywhere along the track by walking there.

For those going to sports venues... the choice is often... do you want to pay $25 to park near the venue.... or pay 50 cents [[or a dollar) to ride each way on the PM and park at a much lower rate in a garage along the PM route??

Another scenario is this... if you want to go to a theatre or other venue, and then later go to a restaurant that's not nearby... but still downtown.... what is the best option.... walking and getting panhandled [[or worse).... or taking a quick PM ride to your destination [[and later take it back)...

Lots of uses for the People Mover.... and while you're waiting... you can appreciate the artwork....

**Jason** · August-31-11, 05:53 PM

I did the same thing as Rocko and yeah, adjusted for inflation the fare should be $1.

Also, I don't think an extra 50 cents is going to stop someone from riding it if they want to ride it.

**animatedmartian** · August-31-11, 05:55 PM

Originally Posted by Gistok

For those going to sports venues... the choice is often... do you want to pay $25 to park near the venue.... or pay 50 cents [[or a dollar) to ride each way on the PM and park at a much lower rate in a garage along the PM route??

Another scenario is this... if you want to go to a theatre or other venue, and then later go to a restaurant that's not nearby... but still downtown.... what is the best option.... walking and getting panhandled [[or worse).... or taking a quick PM ride to your destination [[and later take it back)...

Lots of uses for the People Mover.... and while you're waiting... you can appreciate the artwork....

Yep, that's what me and my family do whenever we go downtown. It's actually pretty useful if you want to get to the other side of the loop. Not so much if you just want to get to the next station.

I'm really surprised they haven't raised it sooner, especially around the time the Superbowl was in town. They could have made soooo much more than they probably did.

**Gsgeorge** · August-31-11, 06:30 PM

Does anyone know if the current tokens will still be valid? I might just take a stroll and cash in on a 10-spot to take advantage of the $.50 fare while it lasts.

**stasu1213** · August-31-11, 07:59 PM

Next to building the RenCen the people mover was another stupid and expensive idea that Detroit leaders and planners had came up with. It was built with a more expensive material, concrete or cement rather than the least expensive, steel. Detroit was like a poor man buying an expensive car to keep up with the lifestyles of his much more richer collegues, Chicago, New York, and Los Angeles. Detroit , after the riots, was desperately trying to find an identity. One crazy idea was to make lower Woodward into a mall by covering it with a canopy. Another dumb idea was to narrow Woodward from Grand Circus Park to Campus Martius. Also, to make Washington Blvd into a parklike setting from it's boulevard status. All of the ideas, whether thought of or implemented, were idiotic and a waste of tax payers as well as private money. I would rather pay the $1.50 to ride the bus a short distance than to pay a $1. to ride something that just go around in circles. Another bad decision made by the city clowncil.

**Rocko** · August-31-11, 11:09 PM

Gsgeorge - I can't imagine them issuing some entirely new token type just because the price went up a quarter, so you could probably get tokens before the fare increase and then use them afterwards. Ironically, the push to raise the fare may actually increase the number of tokens "sold" for 50 cents, and perhaps increase both revenues and ridership to a small extent before the increase takes effect.

I wonder how many DPM tokens were ever minted? I know I have a couple sitting in drawers some place, but when I actually need to ride it when I'm downtown I always bring along the 50 cents or a buck and get new tokens.

And yes, I too am somewhat surprised the fare increase was not considered prior to now. Better late than never I guess. I still think $1 would be a fair price, but I'm sure it'll get there eventually.

**professorscott** · August-31-11, 11:23 PM

Like many of you I'm surprised the City has gone this long without considering this. If you watch the PeopleMover, it is busy in spurts; it has no real peak-hour commuter importance because it doesn't tie into anything else; you can't even use a transfer from a bus system, a problem which could be easily fixed with upgraded fare collection equipment.

Ideally, one should be able to buy a single pass which would give access to both bus systems and the PeopleMover. But in the meantime, I agree with many here who've said a $1 fare is not unreasonable and probably won't curtail use much at all.

**Roq** · September-01-11, 04:08 AM

Originally Posted by rjk

Does anyone under the age of 65 with two good legs actually use this thing?
By the time you get your token and wait for the PM you can get to almost anywhere along the track by walking there.

I do quite a bit -- we like to buy baked goods from Astoria then hop on the PM for a ride. I also take guests from out of town on it.

I would have paid a $1, no problem.

bartock · September-01-11, 08:28 AM

Originally Posted by rjk

Does anyone under the age of 65 with two good legs actually use this thing?
By the time you get your token and wait for the PM you can get to almost anywhere along the track by walking there.

I do, with my kids. They love it, and I think it is much safer for them than walking across all of the intersections.

**Detroitej72** · September-01-11, 08:57 AM

It seems they only raised the fare 25 cents to 75 cents. I guess the extra quarter would have scared off some riders.

**rjk** · September-01-11, 08:57 AM

I can see some of the benifits to the PM, especially in bad weather situations.

It's been a long time since I've been on it, does it still stop at every stop regardless of whether there are people there or not? I wonder if there's some sort of technology that could eliminate these stops.

Why play games with the price and raise it to 75 cents? Just move it up to a buck.
Usually I'm not one to criticize government for keeping the price down, but 50 cents for over 20 years was quite a bargain.

**KJ5** · September-01-11, 09:13 AM

I used to use the People Mover semi-regularly when I lived downtown. A fare increase seems reasonable. Hell, they doubled the price of a daily paper and they've gopt maybe half the content they used to. At least it's the same ol' People Mover service.

**sturge** · September-01-11, 11:42 AM

Originally Posted by professorscott

Like many of you I'm surprised the City has gone this long without considering this. If you watch the PeopleMover, it is busy in spurts; it has no real peak-hour commuter importance because it doesn't tie into anything else; you can't even use a transfer from a bus system, a problem which could be easily fixed with upgraded fare collection equipment.

Yeah, I remember during the height of the recession when a national news guy [[forget which) got on the People Mover to show how empty it was during rush hour. Like that really meant something, lol.

**Hypestyles** · September-01-11, 12:35 PM

the people mover should be 24-hours...

**professorscott** · September-01-11, 04:34 PM

It will be interesting to see what happens. The decision was made to raise the fare to $0.75, rather than $1. This will barely make a dent in the system's current financial difficulties. I won't be too surprised if it has to shut down entirely.

Barbara Hansen, the person in charge of the DPM, said in the paper today that cutting service hours [[which some have mentioned as an idea) won't save enough money to make a difference. I believe nearly all the cost of operating DPM are fixed costs.

**animatedmartian** · September-02-11, 05:18 AM

Originally Posted by professorscott

The decision was made to raise the fare to $0.75, rather than $1.

Can we just put it out of its misery and get the wrecking balls? This ship can only be saved by a miracle but Jesus ain't stopping in town anytime soon.

My frustration stems partly from the failed attempts to expand it and partly from their reluctance to raise the fare. They might as well start taking donations if they want to keep this thing running. I'm not suggestion they take it up to $10 or something, but I at least want to feel like they tried something before the ship sank [[cutting hours just sounds stupid). Otherwise just take down the damned thing already.