The Changing Face of Detroit

[Zozo]

Great article in Crain's "Living and Investing in the D" issue. This is going to be a big decade for Detroit, methinks.

http://www.crainsdetroit.com/article...FREE/110819901

[ferntruth]

Great article in Crain's "Living and Investing in the D" issue. This is going to be a big decade for Detroit, methinks.

http://www.crainsdetroit.com/article...FREE/110819901

I hope you are right, but I was told the 70's would be the big decade for Detroit, then it was the 80's, then the 90's....you get the idea....and yet, the same problems exist.
Color me doubtful.

[bailey]

Great article in Crain's "Living and Investing in the D" issue. This is going to be a big decade for Detroit, methinks.

http://www.crainsdetroit.com/article...FREE/110819901

2 Gateway Park: A 370,000-square-foot shopping center anchored by a Meijer Inc. store is proposed for the old Michigan State Fairgrounds at Eight Mile and Woodward. The proposed RobotTown robotics research consortium is also eyeing the fairgrounds as a possible location.

Seriously? Gateway is still being floated? While you're at it Crain's, why not reprint all those breathless reports about Caddilac Centre.
and this one...

4 Meijer: A deal still in the works would include constructing a 200,000-square-foot retail building with smaller retail buildings surrounding it on the 25 acres at Grand River and McNichols, on the site of Redford High School, which closed in 2007. Grand Rapids-based Meijer Inc. has not announced it will occupy the site, but government and real estate sources say the tenant will be Meijer. The project is being developed by Southfield-based Redico LLC and backed by a handful of longtime Detroiters including developer Bernie Schrott.

...so the company in question....that hasn't pulled the trigger on the long rumored Gateway project.... has not announced participation in this venture either....but you're reporting it as if it'll happen?

Crain's needs to have another section in that article called "Proposals" with a sub heading of "not meant to be a factual statement". you can put cohesive, functioning, regional mass transit there too.

[rjk]

I'm getting a little tired of hearing/reading about the Shops at Gateway.
Reports in late June had Meijer looking over the lease and prepared to sign it by mid July.
It seems like there are 2-3 news stories a year for the last 5 years that this is going to actually happen.

[rjk]

Crain's needs to have another section in that article called "Proposals" with a sub heading of "not meant to be a factual statement". you can put cohesive, functioning, regional mass transit there too.

No kidding. The only time I read Crain's is when it's posted on this site, but I really question their crediblity.
More times than not they seem to be more cheerleader than fact finders.

[Detroitnerd]

There was an interesting debate over whether it should be a typical park-in-front development [[developers like doing what they've done before) or whether it would have an urban orientation with parking and loading in rear. I'd rather they take their time and hammer it out right. Would be awful to be left with something like Model T Plaza if things went sour.

[animatedmartian]

I wonder what the hell Gilbert has planned for that parking garage. Or he's probably holding on to it until a big company needs a new building.

[BrushStart]

I hope you are right, but I was told the 70's would be the big decade for Detroit, then it was the 80's, then the 90's....you get the idea....and yet, the same problems exist.
Color me doubtful.

I think the difference is this:

70s- businesses fled Detroit
80s- businesses fled Detroit
90s- businesses fled Detroit
00s- business loss bottomed out
10s- businesses are relocating to and flourishing in Detroit

If anyone wants to see how much new development has occurred in Detroit since 12/15/2010, please see this thread: http://www.city-data.com/forum/detro...elopments.html

By the end of the thread, you can see how fast things are accelerating. The ball is indeed rolling.

[313WX]

Great article in Crain's "Living and Investing in the D" issue. This is going to be a big decade for Detroit, methinks.

http://www.crainsdetroit.com/article...FREE/110819901

You mean "new" Detroit.

This will probably be "Detroit's" [[areas outside that I-75/River/M-10/Grand Blvd.) worst decade.

[Red Devil]

If you could trade wishful thinking, then Detroit would be Wall Street

[GOAT]

I call skipper's rule on this stuff. This decade is giong to be slow growth for the entire USA economically speaking so money won't be moving in too quickly.

The biggest issue facing Detroit is it's crime [[shocking!) and then it's horrible school system. Until these things are rectified somewhat nothing will change.

People with money are not going to move to Detroit enmasse if they don't feel safe and families won't move until the education system can give the kids an actual education.

No amount of hipsters, singles or wishing will change this unless Detroiters take back their city and demand action on the horrendous crime rates and nepotism and bullshit educational politics that have destroyed the system.

Fuck, I feel like a broken record.

[Detroitej72]

Crime is not rampant in the entire city, so people will move to the safe areas first. If there is enough demand, the growth could spread to other parts of the city. As far as the horrible schools, very soon the governor will get his way and all school districts in the state will be forced to become schools of choice. Then Detroit Public Schools will become irrelevant and anybody who buys in Detroit will have the option to send their kids to Oakland County Schools or wherever they choose. For these reasons, this time Detroit may have a chance at rebirth.

[Carey]

The ball is, indeed, rolling in Midtown, downtown and Corktown...to a certain extent. But I'd like to see some stats on the rest of the city of businesses moving in vs. businesses moving out. Same thing with people moving in vs. people moving out. I'm admittedly taking a wild guess here, but I don't think the picture is so bright in ROD -- the rest of Detroit.

[ismoakrack]

Obviously it isn't. I've only lived here 4.25 years and entire neighborhoods that used to be a little weathered but intact, are completely devastated now. BTW is there any momentum in the clark park/hubbard richard area? Or is it stable but stagnant?

[BrushStart]

Obviously it isn't. I've only lived here 4.25 years and entire neighborhoods that used to be a little weathered but intact, are completely devastated now. BTW is there any momentum in the clark park/hubbard richard area? Or is it stable but stagnant?

It seems stable and mostly stagnant [[some new stuff), but I've pegged those neighborhoods as potential boom areas. They have great assets and are still intact. Mexicantown seems to be becoming somewhat of an attractive area for artists and hipsters, [[perhaps overflowing from the lack of availability in Corktown?). If you shop at Honeybee, you know what I'm talking about. Hubbard-Richard/Clark Park are looking good for the future.

[Zacha341]

I did not know that Honeybee was still open...? Where are they now?

It seems stable and mostly stagnant [[some new stuff), but I've pegged those neighborhoods as potential boom areas. They have great assets and are still intact. Mexicantown seems to be becoming somewhat of an attractive area for artists and hipsters, [[perhaps overflowing from the lack of availability in Corktown?). If you shop at Honeybee, you know what I'm talking about. Hubbard-Richard/Clark Park are looking good for the future.

[GOAT]

Crime is not rampant in the entire city, so people will move to the safe areas first. If there is enough demand, the growth could spread to other parts of the city. As far as the horrible schools, very soon the governor will get his way and all school districts in the state will be forced to become schools of choice. Then Detroit Public Schools will become irrelevant and anybody who buys in Detroit will have the option to send their kids to Oakland County Schools or wherever they choose. For these reasons, this time Detroit may have a chance at rebirth.

For one, outsiders aren't going to pick through the few neighbourhoods where crime isn't an almost every day occurance. They will instead look at the suburbs and realize these are thriving neighbourhoods with better schools and live there.

When the governor "gets his way" do you think people are going to want to move to the city just to send there kids to a school on a bus with longer commutes or do you think they will live closer to schools in a good neighbourhood like most people?

If the majority of Detroiters start going to school in Oakland County or Warren Consolidated, I wouldn't be surprised that parents there move their kids further away. Because a principal I know now has his hands full with the few Detroiters at this school now. With the daily class interruptions, fighting, and lower level of education [[they are having a hard time with the curriculum) this is going to cause some serious problems.

I stand by my original post....again.

[Zacha341]

I hear you. I am concerned about rather or not crime has really topped off in certain areas. Federal funding of programs such as food stamps and the coming cuts in welfare in October will have an impact... though I AM NOT suggesting that to be an excuse for crime.

I hope you are right, but I was told the 70's would be the big decade for Detroit, then it was the 80's, then the 90's....you get the idea....and yet, the same problems exist.
Color me doubtful.

[corktownyuppie]

For one, outsiders aren't going to pick through the few neighbourhoods where crime isn't an almost every day occurance. They will instead look at the suburbs and realize these are thriving neighbourhoods with better schools and live there.

When the governor "gets his way" do you think people are going to want to move to the city just to send there kids to a school on a bus with longer commutes or do you think they will live closer to schools in a good neighbourhood like most people?

If the majority of Detroiters start going to school in Oakland County or Warren Consolidated, I wouldn't be surprised that parents there move their kids further away. Because a principal I know now has his hands full with the few Detroiters at this school now. With the daily class interruptions, fighting, and lower level of education [[they are having a hard time with the curriculum) this is going to cause some serious problems.

I stand by my original post....again.

Everyone seems to wish for and talk about regional cooperation, arguing that if the wealthy and the poor were forced to share resources and cooperate, it would actually force a better result for all parties. I still agree with this. If the people north of 8 mile never have to listen to the constituency south of 8 mile -- and if the people south of 8 mile never have to listen to the constituency north of 8 mile -- then, progress will be impossible. Walls go up. Alliances form. Simple problems like the Cobo Hall become multi-year Gordian knots which steal precious time and resources from other big-issue problems.

Mass transit becomes an elusive oasis for 3 decades because infighting and dysfunction.

The City of Detroit encompasses a citizenry which bears the weight of social problems disproportionate to most other municipalities in SE Michigan. Unemployment, single parenthood, homelessness. Crime. The political boundaries will never require L. Brooks Patterson to deal with Detroit's uneducated and unemployed. The political boundaries will never allow Bloomfield Hills voters to vote for the Detroit City Council. And God forbid raising the issue of raising taxes on Oakland County residents to help with the social problems of Detroit.

But it looks like regional cooperation will start to happen, not because of a political concession to do so. It's happening because Detroit is starting to shed its residents who are leaving for the suburbs while simultaneously attracting an affluent, educated citizenry into its core.

Southfield Mayor Brenda Lawrence is probably one of the more liberal mayors Oakland County has ever had. Detroit Mayor Dave Bing is arguably one of the most business-friendly mayors Detroit has ever had.

I would argue that for specific individuals, this transition is likely to feel like "things are getting worse". I'm sure it feels that way for some of the inner-ring suburbs who are having to take on some of Detroit's social problems. It probably feels that way for Detroiters for whom "things have gotten so bad", that they've been forced to move.

But for the region as a whole, this transition -- painful as it may be -- will result in a political landscape that serves the greater good in a much compelling way:

[[1) Brooks Patterson and the Oakland County crew will be forced to share their affluence to deal with the poor. Not because they're "sending money into Detroit". But because the working poor and lower-middle class is starting to become their problem.

[[2) This new affluent educated is bringing entrepreneurship and business sense into the city, resulting in a migration away from unskilled job toward a knowledge economy that will make the core of Michigan's new economy. This new citizenry also has a lot less patience for "Onward Christian Soldiers" being sung at a City Council Meeting and is pushing for real solutions. Plus, they pay lots of taxes and require fewer services.

Socialism makes a good argument for the redistribution of wealth. It's not one I subscribe to, though I think the intent has some merits. Well, we don't live in a socialist system. But instead of redistributing wealth, the changing face of Detroit is resulting in a re-distribution of Detroit's social problems.

In the long run, we all benefit, especially if you are on board with the idea that the City of Detroit is the "face" of SE Michigan to the rest of the world. And the better state of the city will eventually result in the better state of the region.

[rb336]

You mean "new" Detroit.

This will probably be "Detroit's" [[areas outside that I-75/River/M-10/Grand Blvd.) worst decade.

In rebuilding you HAVE to move from the core outward. That is what every successful urban revival has done. Yes, other pockets [[like corktown) will spring up, but for the revival to be sustained, the core has to be strong, just like getting your body back in shape

[Detroitej72]

When you see the reports that lofts downtown have waiting lists, companies following Dan Gilbert to the Central Business District, and witness new business coming to town, you can't help but to feel optimistic. Sure, some people will sit back and downplay it, and only time will tell if they are correct.

When you see the trends like downtown being filled by many former suburbanites and many former Detroit residents moving to the suburbs, the chances of regional cooperation become more likely.

[DetroitPole]

Crime is not rampant in the entire city, so people will move to the safe areas first. If there is enough demand, the growth could spread to other parts of the city. As far as the horrible schools, very soon the governor will get his way and all school districts in the state will be forced to become schools of choice. Then Detroit Public Schools will become irrelevant and anybody who buys in Detroit will have the option to send their kids to Oakland County Schools or wherever they choose. For these reasons, this time Detroit may have a chance at rebirth.

i wish you could tell me where the "safe" areas are, because I would move there. Or if you mean "safe" as in relative to, say, Somalia, okay then.

I'm sick of hearing about this "rebuilding the core" too. This "core" is a few square miles in a city of ~138 square miles. What we HAVE to do is provide a decent quality of life to all sustainable areas of the city.

Hell, Coleman was "rebuilding the core" decades ago, throwing up monorails and putting awnings on abandoned hotels, monkey bars on Washington Boulevard. Well, the renaissance still hasn't come. In fact, things have gotten unspeakably worse virtually everywhere else.

There is nothing wrong with Midtown and downtown. In fact, I think they're sustainable on their own merits. Yet every incentive still goes to them. They are truly the welfare queens of Detroit.

Rebuilding the core and the revival "moving outward" sounds more like the human centipede to me, with the vast majority of the population being at the back of it.

[corktownyuppie]

What we HAVE to do is provide a decent quality of life to all sustainable areas of the city. .

I desperately wish we could. We can't. We've tried. There's just not enough money. And the pot is getting smaller not larger. It's time to start performing triage and save what we can, otherwise the whole ship goes down.

Midtown and Downtown are not sustainable...yet. You still have vacant building after building after building that will need the up-front capital investment to redevelop. People [[including me) talk about how downtown buildings are 98% full. That's true when you only include the ones that are built out. There's still a decades worth of work to do in the core of the city before anyone will call it "fully sustainable". Until you can walk from New Center to the Coleman Young Building without going through giant islands of blight and danger...it's not fully sustainable.

And maybe you're right and that other areas and other neighborhoods deserve the incentives and redevelopment money more. Let's assume that. That's like putting money into a block with 18 abandoned houses instead of trying to rescue the block with only 3.

These aren't fun times for residents on either of those blocks. But if you dilute your efforts, both blocks die. If you focus all your effort on one block...then at least you'll have one sustainable neighborhood at the end of the day.

[rjk]

But it looks like regional cooperation will start to happen, not because of a political concession to do so. It's happening because Detroit is starting to shed its residents who are leaving for the suburbs while simultaneously attracting an affluent, educated citizenry into its core.

Detroit might be attracting an affluent, educated citizenry into its core [[a very small area by the way), but it's also been shedding its black middle class and that's been happening for a long time..

Hardly a scientific survey, but I don't know any poor or lower middle class former Detroiters who have moved to the suburbs. The number of college educated, middle class or higher residents who have left the city that I know are many.

I get the feeling you're placing too much importance on the people who are moving into the midtown area and not enough on the people who have left the neighborhoods.

[Gannon]

I call skipper's rule on this stuff...Fuck, I feel like a broken record.

Yeah, but SOMEONE has to bring a bit of reality to this party.

Cheers