What a great weekend in Detroit. Now lets get some locals down there

**miketoronto1** · August-21-11, 07:55 PM

I just got back in from three days in Detroit, to attend a family function. My sister finally was able to come to Detroit, and insisted that we go sightseeing. To our surprise, our parents decided to join us for a day of touring Detroit.
Well all three of them can't stop talking about how fun our day in downtown Detroit was, and how great it is.

We did not have as much free time as I was hoping, so we really only did the drive through Groose Pointe, Belle Isle[[including the conservatory, etc), and a little of downtown Detroit, including a tour of the Guardian Building by that amazing security guard who takes people on tours for free.

Anyway it was a really really nice intro to Detroit for them.
They were raving to our Detroit family members all day about it. The reaction by our Detroit family members was mixed. One was open to the idea of touring around with us sometime, and was positive about the changes happening in the city.

Others were freaked and telling us how scary it was when they recently tried to enjoy a day in the city, and warned us to stay clear of the Riverwalk due to black people picking on white people, etc.

I was very glad my parents and sister did not listen to them and instead can't wait to tour again and were defending the city

The evening was spent hanging out with my Detroit cousins who are close to my age. We went to a lounge on Hall Road at Partridge Creek, near their homes.

**corktownyuppie** · August-21-11, 08:05 PM

Originally Posted by miketoronto1

I just got back in from three days in Detroit, to attend a family function. My sister finally was able to come to Detroit, and insisted that we go sightseeing. To our surprise, our parents decided to join us for a day of touring Detroit.
Well all three of them can't stop talking about how fun our day in downtown Detroit was, and how great it is.

We did not have as much free time as I was hoping, so we really only did the drive through Groose Pointe, Belle Isle[[including the conservatory, etc), and a little of downtown Detroit, including a tour of the Guardian Building by that amazing security guard who takes people on tours for free.

Anyway it was a really really nice intro to Detroit for them.
They were raving to our Detroit family members all day about it. The reaction by our Detroit family members was mixed. One was open to the idea of touring around with us sometime, and was positive about the changes happening in the city.

Others were freaked and telling us how scary it was when they recently tried to enjoy a day in the city, and warned us to stay clear of the Riverwalk due to black people picking on white people, etc.

I was very glad my parents and sister did not listen to them and instead can't wait to tour again and were defending the city

The evening was spent hanging out with my Detroit cousins who are close to my age. We went to a lounge on Hall Road at Partridge Creek, near their homes.

I had 3 college friends come into town this weekend...one from NYC, one from Chicago, and the other from the research triangle in NC. Between two awesome baseball games on Friday and Saturday + Kenny Chesney's concert, the city was totally lit up.

What's crazy is that all 3 of them grew up here, and one of them said, "This is so strange. I lived here for 25 years but never actually came down and experience how cool the city could be."

Another said, "What the city has done in the last 7 years is absolutely noticeable. It actually feels like an actual city here for the first time."

Both would love to live in Broderick Tower.

Changing perceptions is not something that can be done in one weekend. And certainly it's even harder for the "local's" whose primary source of information is nightly TV news. But this change is real. Both of them said that if they were to move back into Michigan, they would give serious consideration to living in the GCP and Midtown area.

**DetroitPlanner** · August-22-11, 09:33 AM

Originally Posted by miketoronto1

The evening was spent hanging out with my Detroit cousins who are close to my age. We went to a lounge on Hall Road at Partridge Creek, near their homes.

Let them be. Last thing we need are more boozehounds driving around the metro.

For as much as I criticize the term "Midtown". The revibrancy of the Cass/Wayne/Medical/Brush Park area has helped and will continue to help change peoples perceptions of the City. I see this as the next Halstead [[Chicago, not NW burbs) area. Like Halstead it has the same anchors: a University, Hospitals, and proximity to regional attractions.

**miketoronto1** · August-22-11, 10:00 AM

What I find interesting is so many people can't drive when you go out, because they have to drive. So it becomes mostly water or coke

So no one got drunk.

I was reading this book about downtowns, and it was interesting because it laid some blame on the decline of downtowns on places like Midtown Detroit and New Center. The reason you ask? Because these areas were built to house major regional attractions that are usually in downtowns, like art museums, museums, libraries, etc.
With these major activity generators outside of the downtown cores, it contributed to there being nothing to draw people into the core downtown on weekends, etc.

**detroitsgwenivere** · August-22-11, 11:09 AM

I noticed when I take people on tours of the city, something I've been doing for over a decade, that one of the fear factors for them is that they don't know where they are. Even if they grew up here, folks seem to get easily confused about their location and can't recognize any landmarks other than obvious ones downtown like the RenCen. So I made nice detailed maps to give them as souvenirs, and stop often so they can look at them. Problem solved.

**ResurgetCineribus** · August-22-11, 11:34 AM

Originally Posted by detroitsgwenivere

I noticed when I take people on tours of the city, something I've been doing for over a decade, that one of the fear factors for them is that they don't know where they are. Even if they grew up here, folks seem to get easily confused about their location and can't recognize any landmarks other than obvious ones downtown like the RenCen. So I made nice detailed maps to give them as souvenirs, and stop often so they can look at them. Problem solved.

This is very true and always disappointing. I've definitely noticed my friends and family who all live and grew up right outside Detroit really have a hard time orienting any kind of landmark, building, or street in Detroit because they've literally never been there in years.

I can understand since I used to be one of them. My typical Detroit excursion would be figuring out which exit ramp to get off, driving a block or two to the destination, then driving back to the on ramp. No exploration or exposure. I had no idea New Center was miles north of Downtown.

DetroitPole · August-22-11, 11:52 AM

The only thing I call bullshit with is the "black people picking on white people."

This only seems to happen to the folks who live furthest from the city and come there the least.

I'm no pollyanna, and there are plenty of mean, nasty, and really damn stupid, uneducated people in this city. However with spending 99% of my time in the city - living, working, shopping, playing - I can count on one hand the racial altercations[[or altercations in general, really) I've had with people here. As is rather obvious, I am white. In one of those instances at least, I was just as much an antagonist, though the other party was being racist, and in the another I was in a really bad neighborhood because I'm an idiot sometimes.

The Riverwalk, really? There are few places in the city that are that socially integrated.

Real life examples:

I have a really nice but extremely sheltered family member from the 23 Mile area[[whatever the fuck that's called) who stopped coming to Detroit because some bum in the 1990's told him he liked his shoes.

Once when I was working in Midtown I had a white woman come up to me and ask if the police were going to do something about a homeless person going through a public garbage can outside. My answer was no. She was incredulous.

I'm guessing with most white people who feel threatened it is something typical, innocuous, or common in any city [[such as seeing homeless or being asked for change) and their lives are too sheltered and their viewpoints to narrow to understand and frankly they're just fucking terrified of black people.

Steve bennet · August-22-11, 12:03 PM

Originally Posted by corktownyuppie

I had 3 college friends come into town this weekend...one from NYC, one from Chicago, and the other from the research triangle in NC. Between two awesome baseball games on Friday and Saturday + Kenny Chesney's concert, the city was totally lit up.

Lit up on what standards?

I like my city and all, but lets be real. I'm spending a few days in downtown Toronto, and Detroit is anything but "lit up".

**corktownyuppie** · August-22-11, 12:12 PM

Originally Posted by Steve bennet

Lit up on what standards?

I like my city and all, but lets be real. I'm spending a few days in downtown Toronto, and Detroit is anything but "lit up".

Well, lit up by Detroit standards. It actually looked a halfway decent city. Actual people walking on the sidewalk. Bars with lines out the door. Restaurants with 20-minute wait times.

Let's not kid ourselves, I'm not saying it looked like Times Square in Manhattan. It looked like a C+/B- downtown. Which is better than the D-/F that it looked like years ago.

**detroitsgwenivere** · August-22-11, 12:42 PM

Originally Posted by DetroitPole

I have a really nice but extremely sheltered family member from the 23 Mile area[[whatever the fuck that's called) who stopped coming to Detroit because some bum in the 1990's told him he liked his shoes.

I'm guessing with most white people who feel threatened it is something typical, innocuous, or common in any city [[such as seeing homeless or being asked for change) and their lives are too sheltered and their viewpoints to narrow to understand and frankly they're just fucking terrified of black people.

That's so true. I have family at 25 mile in Shelby Twp., with whom I must regularly debunk popular myths about Detroit with. But at least they aren't effin terrified of black people lol.

But all of their neighbors seem to be.

I don't believe I've ever seen more than a handful of black people in the proximity there, let alone known of any living in the community. It feels like Mars when i go to places with no black folks [[and I'm white too). I'm pretty quick to notice it. It probably feels like mars when sheltered suburb people come to my neighborhood, so I've come to understand that I have to force myself to not be too narrowminded of communities where there aren't too many minorities and lots of cops around. But I would be lying if I said it still didn't make me nervous. Funny....

**canuck** · August-22-11, 12:57 PM

One thing I've noticed whenever I see pictures posted of ball games at Tigers stadium; the small number of african-american fans in the stands. I never asked, but wondered at the lopsided demographics in attendance, what is the deal?

**Detroitnerd** · August-22-11, 01:05 PM

Originally Posted by canuck

One thing I've noticed whenever I see pictures posted of ball games at Tigers stadium; the small number of african-american fans in the stands. I never asked, but wondered at the lopsided demographics in attendance, what is the deal?

To a certain extent, it was always like this. The Tigers organization was never proactive when it came to integration. But also, it has become increasingly expensive to see a ballgame. Old Tiger Stadium had one of the largest bleachers sections in the league. Could go for less than $10 a person. Now I imagine it's more than double that. Call it the "skyboxization" of America.

**canuck** · August-22-11, 02:03 PM

Yep I gotcha. Ballgames at the "Big Owe" were pretty cheap back when the expos were playing. Hockey on the other hand is extremely unaffordable, and always has been.

**internet_pseudopod** · August-22-11, 02:13 PM

Originally Posted by canuck

One thing I've noticed whenever I see pictures posted of ball games at Tigers stadium; the small number of african-american fans in the stands. I never asked, but wondered at the lopsided demographics in attendance, what is the deal?

Well at least there are more Black people there than show up at Wings games! But really, MLB really needs to do a better job of promoting itself amongst African-Americans as a participation sport so they can be more interested as fans.

**drjeff** · August-22-11, 02:17 PM

Originally Posted by Detroitnerd

To a certain extent, it was always like this. The Tigers organization was never proactive when it came to integration. But also, it has become increasingly expensive to see a ballgame. Old Tiger Stadium had one of the largest bleachers sections in the league. Could go for less than $10 a person. Now I imagine it's more than double that. Call it the "skyboxization" of America.

Sorry, but this is completely false. There are many tickets in Comerica Park for under $20, and some are as low as $5. Try going to any other major sporting event in town for under $35 a seat.

And to be honest, the bleacher seats in Tiger Stadium were cheap because they sucked.

**DetroitPlanner** · August-22-11, 02:35 PM

Originally Posted by canuck

One thing I've noticed whenever I see pictures posted of ball games at Tigers stadium; the small number of african-american fans in the stands. I never asked, but wondered at the lopsided demographics in attendance, what is the deal?

Why are there so many canadians that go to Red Wings games?
AA's are certainly not under-represented on baseball teams. This is probably due to folks from Central and South America being over-represented. I find this peculiar as well. I am surprised however that the stadiums are not packed with Central and South americans. Why are the signs at Comerica park not in Spanish? Cerveza por favor!

**Detroitnerd** · August-22-11, 02:44 PM

Originally Posted by drjeff

Sorry, but this is completely false. There are many tickets in Comerica Park for under $20, and some are as low as $5. Try going to any other major sporting event in town for under $35 a seat.

And to be honest, the bleacher seats in Tiger Stadium were cheap because they sucked.

Wish I had kept my $3.50 stubs. Dr. Jeff, I must respectfully disagree with you. The Tigers organization, under M.I., has turned into a vertically integrated money-making machine, less like an old stadium and more like an airport. You cannot discount the factors other than ticket prices.

Frankly, the bleachers were way more fun. I am honored to be a former "Bleacher Creature."

**drjeff** · August-22-11, 02:59 PM

Originally Posted by Detroitnerd

Wish I had kept my $3.50 stubs. Dr. Jeff, I must respectfully disagree with you. The Tigers organization, under M.I., has turned into a vertically integrated money-making machine, less like an old stadium and more like an airport. You cannot discount the factors other than ticket prices.

Frankly, the bleachers were way more fun. I am honored to be a former "Bleacher Creature."

The bleachers were fun. I sat there many times. But you were over 440 feet from home. It was not a great place to watch the game. Plus you were fenced in there and couldn't even get to any other part of the stadium.

Give me the upper deck seats above the dugouts in TS. Those were the best seats in baseball, for a mere $12 in 1999.

I go to a lot of Tigers games, usually over 25 a year. Comerica Park is a nice place to watch the game. Of course it will never been Tiger Stadium, but nothing else ever will be either. My current seats, in the 2nd row above 1st base, are $19 apiece. While farther away from the field than my seats in TS, they are still excellent seats for a good price.

**Detroitnerd** · August-22-11, 03:08 PM

Originally Posted by drjeff

The bleachers were fun. I sat there many times. But you were over 440 feet from home. It was not a great place to watch the game. Plus you were fenced in there and couldn't even get to any other part of the stadium.

Give me the upper deck seats above the dugouts in TS. Those were the best seats in baseball, for a mere $12 in 1999.

I go to a lot of Tigers games, usually over 25 a year. Comerica Park is a nice place to watch the game. Of course it will never been Tiger Stadium, but nothing else ever will be either. My current seats, in the 2nd row above 1st base, are $19 apiece. While farther away from the field than my seats in TS, they are still excellent seats for a good price.

Well, now we're on to the merits of stadium vs. stadium. The upper deck was definitely better, closer. The bleachers weren't much farther than some of the outfield seats at CP, really. And, frankly, the fencing added to the zoo atmosphere.

I think of this: In August of 1974, when they announced Nixon's resignation over the P.A., the crowd stomped its feet and cheered lustily. Would a crowd at CP have cheered Bush's resignation? I do feel they've priced out the working class. They can't all be Reagan democrats...

Anyway, thanks for the memories.

**stinkytofu** · August-22-11, 03:14 PM

I'm no fan of Ilitch, but I got into a Tigers game for $5 two weeks ago. I just walk up to the box office before the game and ask for the cheapest seats possible. I was surprised it was that low - there seems to be no rhyme or reason as I've gone to games with bad opponents and had to spend [[I think) $13.

**drjeff** · August-22-11, 03:19 PM

Perhaps the best part of the bleachers were the warm, sunny days when the ladies would have a bit too much beer and suddenly a "show" would begin. :-) And there never seemed to be any ushers up there.

**Detroitnerd** · August-22-11, 03:21 PM

Originally Posted by stinkytofu

I'm no fan of Ilitch, but I got into a Tigers game for $5 two weeks ago. I just walk up to the box office before the game and ask for the cheapest seats possible. I was surprised it was that low - there seems to be no rhyme or reason as I've gone to games with bad opponents and had to spend [[I think) $13.

It's not just the ticket price anymore, though. Ilitch can price the tickets as "loss leaders" because he knows you'll have to park at his parking garage, eat at his restaurant, drink his beer, buy his shirts, etc. Hell, I wouldn't be surprised if Ilitch let you in for free and charged you to leave... Wotta stinker ...

**Detroitnerd** · August-22-11, 03:23 PM

Originally Posted by drjeff

Perhaps the best part of the bleachers were the warm, sunny days when the ladies would have a bit too much beer and suddenly a "show" would begin. :-) And there never seemed to be any ushers up there.

Sigh ... I miss the past ...

**stinkytofu** · August-22-11, 03:57 PM

Originally Posted by Detroitnerd

It's not just the ticket price anymore, though. Ilitch can price the tickets as "loss leaders" because he knows you'll have to park at his parking garage, eat at his restaurant, drink his beer, buy his shirts, etc. Hell, I wouldn't be surprised if Ilitch let you in for free and charged you to leave... Wotta stinker ...

Eh, I never give Ilitch one cent above the ticket price. I park at my downtown work garage and eat someplace else. I know he kills it at concessions with most people, but if you're smart you don't have to let him rape you.

**Bagley** · August-22-11, 04:05 PM

Originally Posted by canuck

One thing I've noticed whenever I see pictures posted of ball games at Tigers stadium; the small number of african-american fans in the stands. I never asked, but wondered at the lopsided demographics in attendance, what is the deal?

As a black person who lives within walking distance of the stadium, I meet up with lots of friends [[of many races) who have tickets to the game beforehand for drinks, lunch or a cigar. Sometimes, when all is said and done, they'd rather finish our conversation than actually attend the game. Usually these are folks I played organized baseball with and the conclusion that we've come to is that baseball is great to play but a chore to watch. Also, there are usually a ton of tickets floating around in the circles I'm in so price isn't a big issue.

The last time I really made a serious effort to go was when a client invited me to his season seats so close to the third base you could hear the discussions on the field.