CBC-Windsor Digital Conversion

**Tigersfan** · August-18-11, 09:07 AM

It is my understanding based on reports I've read [[including this: http://www.cbc.radio-canada.ca/newsr...f/dtv_plan.pdf) that CBC-Windsor 9 is due to convert from analog to digital on August 31, 2011.

Does anyone know how this may affect signal strength for those of us who receive CBC over the air in metro Detroit? Will the signal be stronger/easier to receive over the air?

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

**JBMcB** · August-18-11, 09:16 AM

Usually with DTV the marginal reception is eliminated. So, if before, you got static and snow but could still watch at 50 miles away, you aren't going to get anything usable with a digital signal. From what I've read most see a 30-40% drop in usable signal range. However, if you are within the range, your signal is usually perfect. We dropped cable and I got a relatively cheap [[~ $60) chimney-mount HDTV antenna, and I get about 20 channels with very good quality on the East side, including an analog French station from Canada.

**Carey** · August-18-11, 09:53 AM

JBMcB: Could you be more specific about your antenna? Name, etc. Would it have to be mounted on a chimney? Thanks.

**401don** · August-18-11, 09:54 AM

It looks like Windsor is one of the areas receiving a one year extension.

http://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&source...cWQutDnhsHeMyw

**Gannon** · August-18-11, 10:00 AM

Over-the-Air television absolutely rules, too. The picture and sound quality are a world better than what cable or satellite can provide.

Plus, it is much easier to scroll through and find nothing on...when there are only a few channels...and they are totally free, after the equipment purchase and installation. Makes it refreshing to hit the power button to put it all back to sleep.

I see some of my client's cable bills...and simply cannot imagine justifying paying >$100 per month to be assaulted by a shitstorm of largely regurgitated crap...interspersed by inane commercials that more often than not chase me to another station.

My honey and I can catch up with all we 'need' through the library's fine collection of DVDs. Someday, I may even try BluRay...but not likely. The stuff I have makes DVD look very nearly as good, without the silly delays from that mandatory FBI screen accusing me of piracy...and the forcing of us to sit through previews of Hellywood stuff that we'd probably never watch. [[we've been duped by way too many cunningly cut trailers to believe any of them any longer...)

Cheers,
John

**eno** · August-18-11, 10:24 AM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0SDrq...eature=related

**Tigersfan** · August-18-11, 10:51 AM

Any idea how far the CBC's digital signal will spread to the north? I'm wondering if there's a map or any way to predict this to see if I'm within range. Would be great to get Hockey Night in Canada over-the-air, even better when they start transmitting it in HD from Windsor.

**Gannon** · August-18-11, 10:53 AM

I've been in the midst of the HD conversion since before it began...my HD equipment actually goes back to before broadcast, if you can find any information on Unity Motion, LOL! I used to EDIT the fellow who 'wrote the book' on the backstory of HD, Joel Brinkley...son of the famous newsman.

http://www.amazon.com/Defining-Visio.../dp/0156005972

That said, while the FCC has 'em, NONE of the broadcast maps are accurate...it is all trial and error...and with the right antenna and installation you will get better results, but even then there are no guarantees. Sorry. It is still more art than science. Not even sure they'll bother with the Canadian broadcasts, either.

Cheers

Haven't read through it all, but this showed up in my search for Joel's book, and it looks good.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...060903144.html

**professorscott** · August-18-11, 12:13 PM

Originally Posted by 401don

It looks like Windsor is one of the areas receiving a one year extension.

Not at all. From the Star:

English Language TV Stations to Remain Analog:
CBRT-6 Lethbridge, Alta.
CBAT-TV Saint John, N.B.
CBAT-TV-2 Moncton, N.B.
CBLN-TV London, Ont.
CBLN-TV-1 Paris, Ont. [[serving Kitchener-Waterloo)
CBMT-3 Sherbrooke, Que.
CBJET Chicoutimi, Que.
CBVE-TV Quebec, Que.
CBMT-1-TV Trois-Rivieres, Que.
CBKST Saskatoon, Sask.

Vox · August-18-11, 12:40 PM

Digital television
As part of Canada's transition to digital television, CBET will flash-cut to digital on August 31, 2011, using its existing signal on channel 9. While the CBC originally planned on requesting that analogue operations for CBET and some of its other stations be extended by one year, taking those stations digital in 2012,[4][5] the corporation later revised its plan, and will now convert all of its originating stations to digital in August 2011.[6]

I hope I can pick it up when they change over.

**milesdriven** · August-18-11, 01:20 PM

CICO TVO 32 [[Ontario public TV) flash-cut to digital this morning at 6am, and I have no problems receiving it in Toledo. Check out tvfool.com for detailed reception information.

Vox · August-18-11, 02:48 PM

I get 32 but not in a digital mode.

**Tigersfan** · August-18-11, 03:26 PM

Originally Posted by Gannon

Not even sure they'll bother with the Canadian broadcasts, either.

CBC broadcasts Hockey Night in Canada in HD, but when they started this practice, they only had HD available OTA in certain cities [[Toronto, maybe Vancouver), and the rest of the HD recipients had to get it through cable/satellite. I thought the plan was to expand their digital OTA, adding HD at the same time.

**Meddle** · August-18-11, 04:32 PM

Originally Posted by Tigersfan

Any idea how far the CBC's digital signal will spread to the north? I'm wondering if there's a map or any way to predict this to see if I'm within range.

Check tvfool.com or antennaweb.org

Both work well for US stations, but I don't know how well they do on Canadian stations.

**Jowlska** · August-18-11, 04:55 PM

Digital tv conversion sucks and it is a ploy for the cable and satilite industry to make you pay for tv. I heard on the radio that CBC will only be available to cable and satilite subscribers in many areas. Can you get CBC on cable in Detroit?

**CLAUDE G** · August-18-11, 10:35 PM

Originally Posted by Jowlska

Digital tv conversion sucks and it is a ploy for the cable and satilite industry to make you pay for tv. I heard on the radio that CBC will only be available to cable and satilite subscribers in many areas. Can you get CBC on cable in Detroit?

I have been in the Satellite Television industry for the past 12 years, and the Digital OTA broadcasts are the only way to go in terms of quality.

As far as the Satellite and Cable Industry wanting customers to pay for TV, yes they do want as many customers as possible. However, at the same time you put up a good OTA antenna, with possibly a digital converter and your better off than you where before.

The only issue going Digital is that in some cases you will need to invest a few hunderd dollars in a good antenna. Generally people don't want to spend any money when it comes to TV, and they will opt for a free satellite or cable installation and pay for the lowest tier package.

As far as CBET 9 going Digital, this is the best thing that can happen for this region. Everyone who get local OTA stations from Detroit are using either a Digital Converter, or has a satellite receiver or TV that has a Digital Tuner built in.

Many of these converters DO NOT WORK WITH ANALOG so eventhough their antenna got a good signal from channel 9, it was either too much of a hassle to switch to the analog tuner inside the TV set, or the Digital coverter simply did not pick up analog.

As far as the Digital signals, its hard to say what we will see on the cut over, but if you are within 20-30 miles of downtown Windsor you should actually see an improvement, as with Digital you either get a signal or you don't get anything at all.

As far as the cable companies, they should carry channel 9 reguardless. Most of the cable companies have an OTA antenna in their headend with an analog tuner, where they remodulate it into their lineup. When Channel 9 goes Digital, the cable company simply needs to switch out their analog tuner for a digital tuner, at a cost of several hunderd dollars, unless they are getting a fiber feed from channel 9 which is unlikely.

As far as Satellite, it would be available on a Canadian Satellite system, however Dish Network and Directv would never be able to carry channel 9 due to US and Canadian Copyright restrictions.

**Brock7** · August-19-11, 09:30 AM

Yesterday while it was raining I couldn't receive CH32 at all here near 7 & Hayes. Today I can pull it in at the back of the house with just an indoor loop antenna pointed at a south facing window. I could pull in the analog signal there previously, but the picture was snowy, so digital's an improvement.

At the front of the house I've not been able to get a picture on CH32 even with a better double-loop indoor antenna and a good distribution amplifier. Previously when the signal was analog I could sometimes pull in an extremely snowy picture in the front room with the same set-up on a good day - if I could get the antenna positioned just right.

**milesdriven** · August-19-11, 02:03 PM

Originally Posted by Vox

I get 32 but not in a digital mode.

Scan for it in digital mode, they just made the switch yesterday and are no longer broadcasting in analog.

**CLAUDE G** · August-20-11, 12:03 AM

Originally Posted by BLGaughan

Does anybody know if this will have any effect on cable systems that carry CBC? Ive been waiting for HD hockey night in Canada for years. Come playoff time I have to choose between an inferior picture on CBC or having to listen to Doc Emrick mispronounce player's names & Pierre La...... scream into the mic on Versus.

Depends if the cable company wants to burn up more bandwith and offer the HD Feed as part of their lineup.

You can put 6 Analog channels in the same space it requires to have 1 HD channel.

The problem is that channel 9 has no value to the cable companies, and I believe its considered to be lower priority than carrying Channel 38 which is WADL.

Hockey Night in Canada, is the only worthwhile progam that would make sense for the cable companies to offer the station in HD. The question is who is making the decisions? Is it someone from Comcast here locally, or is it someone from Comcasts corporate headquarters?

Vox · August-20-11, 12:08 AM

Originally Posted by milesdriven

Scan for it in digital mode, they just made the switch yesterday and are no longer broadcasting in analog.

Still not picking it up. Obviously a better antenna is in order.

**milesdriven** · August-20-11, 09:55 AM

Originally Posted by Meddle

Check tvfool.com or antennaweb.org

Both work well for US stations, but I don't know how well they do on Canadian stations.

Their data seems to be quite accurate for Canadian stations as well. I live in Toledo, and watch all the Windsor locals, as well as Sarnia and London when atmospheric conditions allow. It helps that I have a 35 foot tower with a beast of an antenna.

**ndavies** · August-20-11, 03:17 PM

Originally Posted by CLAUDE G

Depends if the cable company wants to burn up more bandwith and offer the HD Feed as part of their lineup.

You can put 6 Analog channels in the same space it requires to have 1 HD channel.

The problem is that channel 9 has no value to the cable companies, and I believe its considered to be lower priority than carrying Channel 38 which is WADL.

Hockey Night in Canada, is the only worthwhile progam that would make sense for the cable companies to offer the station in HD. The question is who is making the decisions? Is it someone from Comcast here locally, or is it someone from Comcasts corporate headquarters?

You have it backwards. 1 pure analog channel uses the most bandwidth. You can fit about 3 HD channels in the space one analog channel uses on a cable system. You can fit 6 digital Standard definition channels in the space 1 HD channel takes.

That's why all the cable systems are dropping analog channels and going totally digital. They can transmit more channels digitally than they can using analog. It also frees up bandwidth for internet services.

**JenniferL** · August-20-11, 07:13 PM

I can't even get Channel 2 [[Fox) on my TV with the digital converter box. The channels that I do get tend to come in pixel-ated.

**CLAUDE G** · August-21-11, 01:53 AM

Originally Posted by ndavies

You have it backwards. 1 pure analog channel uses the most bandwidth. You can fit about 3 HD channels in the space one analog channel uses on a cable system. You can fit 6 digital Standard definition channels in the space 1 HD channel takes.

That's why all the cable systems are dropping analog channels and going totally digital. They can transmit more channels digitally than they can using analog. It also frees up bandwidth for internet services.

Actually I was thinking of satellite TV [[DISH Network) when I said that. Its 6 Standard Definiton Digital channels to 1 HD channel.

Your absolutly right, the cable companies can't wait to totally get rid of all their analog channels. However its a catch 22 for them, because there are lots of customers out there who have several televisions hooked up to Analog cable. When they convert to Digital they have to provide these customers converter boxes which they like to charge $8 or more per month.

Now the customer who had basic cable for $50 per month split to 6 televisions, now has to pay an extra $40 per month to rent the boxes. So now the customer has a $90 bill per month, and is looking at other options and getting a promotion by switching providers.

**CLAUDE G** · August-21-11, 01:55 AM

Originally Posted by JenniferL

I can't even get Channel 2 [[Fox) on my TV with the digital converter box. The channels that I do get tend to come in pixel-ated.

You either need a bigger antenna, or a different brand converter box.

On some of the digital boxes the tuner is more sensitive, and will pick up stations other boxes can't. I have literally put 2 boxes side by side and 1 box will pick up more channels than the other one.