Parsing "Surrendered" - What Statements Asserted by the Author are True?

**SWMAP** · August-17-11, 10:59 AM

Here is a YouTube clip from an interview of the author on MSNBC. He makes many statements that are going to be heard around our town for awhile. I believe that may be more boastful than truthful, but I would like to be able to respond to the author's true believers with some facts. Watch the video promoting the book [[it is a little funny at times) and weigh in if you can.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qVlRyJLGWcc

For example, the author states that he brought more jobs to Detroit than "any mayor, in the history [[of Detroit)!" Is this true? Is it verifiable?

He states that he "built more houses than any mayor; fixed more streets than any Mayor; built more rec centers, brought more national events and created more economic development than any [[previous) mayor.

I will say that there was a string of "national events" that occurred when he was mayor of Detroit. That string was in place before he became mayor. For example, when the Lions built Ford Field, the NFL promised a Super Bowl to the city. This is sort of standard procedure. Mayor Archer joined the Lions in Atlanta and made the successful bid.

[[You can see that I am trying to keep this out of the mega thread by not naming the author)

**Detroitnerd** · August-17-11, 11:12 AM

Full. Of. Shit.

**Gannon** · August-17-11, 11:13 AM

And, we'd better not quote directly from the book, either. For damn sure his empty suits will be watching VERY closely to insure they can sue for any copyright violations.

But we can paraphrase, right?! Who knows the limitations of public discourse of copyrighted materials?

This is going to be fun. Slaughter the Big Diamond's spew of bullshit. I'm ready, after I get the next project done.

Cheers!

**jackie5275** · August-17-11, 11:26 AM

I really liked LBP editorial/book review in the Detroit News when the book was released. Told me everything I need to know about. Glad he read it for me.

**Gannon** · August-17-11, 11:31 AM

Shame he didn't die from laughter, he must've had a good couple of drinks in 'im. Go figure.

**Detroitej72** · August-17-11, 12:07 PM

In the interview he also claims credit for the casinos, which, last i checked, opened under Archer. This arrogant fool is so full of himself that it wouldn't surprise me if he actually believes his own lies.

**SWMAP** · August-17-11, 12:45 PM

He may not believe them. He says things so his followers, the Mildred Gaddis people, for example, will believe them. That's why its valuable to collect the facts.

Archer opened the casinos - check.
Archer won the Super Bowl - check

What about jobs - any way to find out whether its a baseless boast? How would the author know anyway? Can he compare his numbers to Jerome Cavenaugh, for instance? I think not. Its just something he is willing to say without any back-up.

**Detroitej72** · August-17-11, 12:57 PM

Originally Posted by SWMAP

What about jobs - any way to find out whether its a baseless boast?.

He'll probably count all the jobs Compuware brought to town when they moved here, but again, that was started by Archer.

Originally Posted by SWMAP

Its just something he is willing to say without any back-up.

More than likely he figures nobody will call him out on this, and if someone dose, he'll say they are just trying to keep a brother down.

**313hero** · August-17-11, 01:08 PM

Originally Posted by SWMAP

He may not believe them. He says things so his followers, the Mildred Gaddis people, for example, will believe them. That's why its valuable to collect the facts.

Archer opened the casinos - check.
Archer won the Super Bowl - check

What about jobs - any way to find out whether its a baseless boast? How would the author know anyway? Can he compare his numbers to Jerome Cavenaugh, for instance? I think not. Its just something he is willing to say without any back-up.

SuperBowl's success- Check
Permanent casino's-Check

Yeah Archer got alot of things started. That is true. But KK got the things done.

**SWMAP** · August-17-11, 01:15 PM

I believe that Super Bowl's success was entirely due to Roger Penske and the millions Roger Penske raised and the staff he hired. The mayor had nothing to do with it - and I speak from personal, intimate knowledge.

bartock · August-17-11, 01:15 PM

I suspect you could take virtually any year between 1920-1953 [[minus the Depression) and find more job growth than in Kwame's entire administration.

bartock · August-17-11, 01:18 PM

Originally Posted by SWMAP

I believe that Super Bowl's success was entirely due to Roger Penske and the millions Roger Penske raised and the staff he hired. The mayor had nothing to do with it - and I speak from personal, intimate knowledge.

In fairness, Kwame could get credit for getting his fat ass out of the way so that competent folks like Penske were able ensure the Super Bowl was a success. Penske basically said "I'll handle this, you can go to the parties and take all the credit."

**Gannon** · August-17-11, 02:08 PM

To his credit, morale in the Police Deparement was only lower in the late-20s and early-30s.

Plus I think only one mayor in town ever did WORSE than him. [[of course, that one was voted out of office quickly...proof of the erosion of morals in the citizenry, too!)

Copper thefts were at an all time high...never did a major fountain lost its plumbing under another mayor.

There may not have been another with greater success with the Friends and Family employment plan...I think he even out-classes and out-assed CAY in this regard!

And the city didn't burn completely to the ground around him.

So he's got that going for him.

I'd say we'd have much more fun assembling THIS sort of list. The stuff he really accomplished while in office.

**Gannon** · August-17-11, 02:10 PM

Oh, what about population LOSS?

Minority population fleeing?

Has any other mayor been accused of fucking so many other women outside of marriage? Trick question, because Coleman wasn't married during most of his dallying...and there was no such thing as Viagra back then.

**Scottathew** · August-17-11, 02:35 PM

Originally Posted by Gannon

And, we'd better not quote directly from the book, either. For damn sure his empty suits will be watching VERY closely to insure they can sue for any copyright violations.

You should be able to directly quote under Fair Use.

**Gannon** · August-17-11, 02:41 PM

But that would only get his attorney's in a bunch over the definition of 'fair', LOL!

**SWMAP** · August-17-11, 02:46 PM

Classically, you can quote , with attribution, enough to make or defend your point.

**Scottathew** · August-17-11, 03:20 PM

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fair_use

Fair use, a limitation and exception to the exclusive right granted by copyright law to the author of a creative work, is a doctrine in United States copyright law that allows limited use of copyrighted material without acquiring permission from the rights holders. Examples of fair use include commentary, criticism, news reporting, research, teaching, library archiving and scholarship. It provides for the legal, non-licensed citation or incorporation of copyrighted material in another author's work under a four-factor balancing test.

**Gannon** · August-17-11, 09:29 PM

So, if we each choose a small portion to study out and post on...LOL...we could effectively create an on-line archive. Maybe that would be more fun than merely making our own list of the truth. Might have to do both.

Contributors could post themselves, or their pets, in his cover pose. I think this needs to be done.

Anyone else in?!

Cheers!

Ravine · August-17-11, 11:16 PM

If we are going to make him out to be little more than the Front Man for a powerful high-roller, or group of such, let's bear two things in mind:
1. Many Mayors are Front Men for powerful high-rollers or groups of such.
2. In that role-- if, in fact, in that role he was-- he was actually really good at it.

Of course, I will not neglect to affix the appropriate Post-Script by pointing out that, seeing as how he was pretty good at it, it's even more a shame that he so entirely fucked it up in ways that were so entirely unnecessary and eminently avoidable.
Personally, I truly believe that he committed numerous criminal acts, but that is merely my opinion, not an accusation, and it is based on no direct, personal knowledge whatsoever.

Ravine · August-17-11, 11:21 PM

Also, so none of you will think I've grown soft during my absence, I will declare that I still think that he was, and still is, a total asshole for whom I hold great contempt.

**Zacha341** · August-18-11, 04:02 AM

Um-er, "HE", since we are not mentioning his name lest we crack open the mega thread is the epitome of bold-faced "Self Justification"!

The feds will moving forth next. Perhaps "he" can add an addendum to the book thereafter.

**gnome** · August-18-11, 05:57 AM

Goodness Zacha you were up very early this morning. No doubt riveted by The Felon's hypnotic prose.

Personally I'm kind of "Over" the guy. He will soon be gone as will Bernard et al. Any hatred I had for the guy has been muted by the comforting belief that the Feds will soon make him vanish.

Ravine · August-18-11, 07:06 AM

Originally Posted by Zacha341

Um-er, "HE", since we are not mentioning his name lest we crack open the mega thread is the epitome of bold-faced "Self Justification"!

The feds will moving forth next. Perhaps "he" can add an addendum to the book thereafter.

The hell you say.
Indulge me and allow me to clarify:
I think Kwame Kilpatrick committed numerous criminal acts.
I think Kwame Kilpatrick is a total asshole.

**SWMAP** · August-18-11, 07:23 AM

Oh no! Don't tempt the Moderator. Can't have this moved to the mega thread before we get some substantial comment to ward off the Mildred Gaddis people and the various other "true believers."
Has anyone watched that video linked above? Note how hostile the interviewer was, how the author vainly tried to steer the conversation to the " hopelessness" of Detroit , left leaderless without him. She notes that he "had his chance and wrecked it."
I think this charade, now that he won't get the book sales, is to set the table for a hung jury next year.