Could cashless stores decrease crime

**Dag** · July-31-11, 04:37 PM

It seems one of the greatest obstacles for businesses locating to Detroit has been the overall presence of crime. Stores become targets of convenience because criminals acknowledge that they are sources of ready cash.

Would the overall drop off in some cash only clientele be worth it to no longer be a target of convenience? Is it possible that if stores made it clear that they were cashless stores that they would no longer be a potential target to all but some of the more sophisticated thefts.

I was talking to several friends that were looking at opening various shops and restaurants in Detroit and while crime is a major concern, the cost of retail insurance is equally a concern especially when they are looking to start.

I would surmise that if a store was verified as being cashless then insurance companies would be more apt to decrease the insurance premiums.

I don't know if anything has been done on this before, I couldn't find anything in the DY archives, but if any has any insight that would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks.

**Bigb23** · July-31-11, 04:51 PM

Good first post Dag. Debit cards seem to be the way to go, but a lot of people don't have access to bank accounts in the city of Detroit.

**Dag** · July-31-11, 05:14 PM

Originally Posted by Bigb23

Good first post Dag. Debit cards seem to be the way to go, but a lot of people don't have access to bank accounts in the city of Detroit.

Bigb23, while I definitely understand and agree with what you are saying for the bulk of the city I think we are looking at slightly different parameters for Midtown,Downtown, and Indian Village. When we are looking at residences that have average household incomes of 111k-113k then I think we are not putting due burden on the residents and I believe that they are generally going to have a debit account.

Further, I think you bring up a tremendous point of many residents of Detroit not having a bank account. I think that this is subject that I haven't seen addressed and I would love to see it addressed in the future. I just think that might be an entirely different thread though.

**Scottathew** · July-31-11, 05:18 PM

Great idea.

Does anyone know if stores located within the US must accept US currency?

Yes, you would exclude yourself from cash customers, but if not accepting cash is the difference between a store and no store, then why not!?

However, there's still a huge issue about merchandise theft, which is probably one of the reasons we don't have a Meijer or a Walmart within city limits.

lilpup · July-31-11, 06:00 PM

Stores also lose cigarettes, liquor, prescription meds, lottery tickets [[sometimes) and other stuff - anything that has any street value. Even street robberies don't stop at cash.

**animatedmartian** · July-31-11, 06:09 PM

The only way to reduce crime is to keep kids in school and have a decent police force. Detroit has neither of these in abundance.

lilpup · July-31-11, 06:17 PM

Detroit needs an empowered police force that doesn't have to constantly worry about whether the City and the community will support them, instead of suing them or starting a riot.

The established ideas of right and wrong behavior and how police should operate are totally upside down in Detroit. Just recently a handful of officers was required to subdue a suspect resisting arrest and the witness the reporter put on camera started squawking about Rodney King.

**rjk** · July-31-11, 06:57 PM

I would think it would be more effective decreasing customers than it would crime.
Just a guess on my part, but I would think that loses from shoplifting are more than the loses from robberies.
Shoplifters are obviously dealing in smaller amounts, but they more than make up for it in volume.

lilpup · July-31-11, 06:59 PM

Actually the greatest loss in retail stores comes from employee theft.

**English** · July-31-11, 07:04 PM

We have some successful businesses in the city already. Why not figure out what they're doing right, and replicate it?

Steve bennet · July-31-11, 07:10 PM

If they are cashless stores, than wouldn't you need a debit-card, thus being forced to have a bank account? I don't want to give one cent to any bank, or support them in any way.

**Dag** · July-31-11, 07:11 PM

Originally Posted by Steve bennet

If they are cashless stores, than wouldn't you need a debit-card, thus being forced to have a bank account? I don't want to give one cent to any bank, or support them in any way.

Credit Unions need love too?

**Johnnny5** · July-31-11, 07:24 PM

Most retailers are struggling as it is, to eliminate cash customers would be the death knell for just about any retailer, let alone those in a city where a fair number of the residents are without debit or credit cards.

**szla** · July-31-11, 07:27 PM

This was my thought about 10 years ago. Cash could be accepted but no change would be given. All the money would go in a lock box with receipts for the cash. The lockbox would be cemented to the building. A brinks type truck would take the box to a repository and replace it with an empty one. Change would be given in a kind of chit which would be redeemable at some kind of bank/credit union. Or you could use the chit for your next visit. This was the system I dreamed up when I was looking at buying an 8 store commercial building. Good luck. It's a bit convoluted, but it could produce viable commercial activityT

GUSHI · July-31-11, 07:45 PM

They should set up stores for bridge card customers that opetrate a few days a week. So people dont sell them, and use the money for cigs and boozes, drugs etc.....Now the "no cash" stores would definetly not work in Detroit or anywhere else, if some one wants to rip a store off,they are gonna rip it off. No cash, they can always steal cigs and booze.

lilpup · July-31-11, 07:46 PM

If you're going to take any cash at all then you should just issue reloadable store cards. State assistance benefits are already issued on EBT cards.

GUSHI · July-31-11, 08:06 PM

Ya but people sell those cards for cash.

Originally Posted by lilpup

If you're going to take any cash at all then you should just issue reloadable store cards. State assistance benefits are already issued on EBT cards.

**kathy2trips** · July-31-11, 08:27 PM

That's not the retailer's problem. Their problem is NOT to get held up, and this seems like a good solution. Obviously, won't deter merchandise theft. You can't put everything behind the counter! You've got to have stuff to sell. That's why private security/survellience companies are a growth industry.

**DetroitPlanner** · July-31-11, 09:27 PM

I am siding with BigB on this one. Places like Midtown or Indian Village are not where the bulk of crime happens. Too much of Detroit's economy is based on cold hard cash. Like it or not there are thousands of shadetree mechanics, home barber shops, cooks, housecleaners, handymen, that participate in a non-taxed economy. Non taxed economy works best with cash.

**DetroitPlanner** · July-31-11, 09:31 PM

Originally Posted by lilpup

If you're going to take any cash at all then you should just issue reloadable store cards. State assistance benefits are already issued on EBT cards.

Won't stores need to accept cash for this to work? How else can you load money on cards? Most people live on the margins. They can't afford to have an ACO card with a few bucks left on it, a McDonalds card with a few bucks on it, an Aldi card with a few bucks on it. They are barely making it. Otherwise everyone would be able to have a bank account and a visa card.

**Meddle** · July-31-11, 10:37 PM

Originally Posted by Dag

Bigb23, while I definitely understand and agree with what you are saying for the bulk of the city I think we are looking at slightly different parameters for Midtown,Downtown, and Indian Village. When we are looking at residences that have average household incomes of 111k-113k.

So, only rich people should be able to shop at these stores? The typical Detroiter with $20 cash waiting for their next check which will be too small to deposit is just S.O.L., right?

**Meddle** · July-31-11, 10:46 PM

The only way this would work would be to eliminate cash completely. Everybody would have a card of some sort. All pay and benefits would be added to the card account. You could not sell the card for cash because there would be no cash. There would be no black market for cash since all cash, both bills and coins would be devalued to $0 and would no longer be legal tender for anyone who didn't turn it in. No one could use cash anywhere. No store or business could accept it. No one could rob you of cash or force you to make a withdrawl of cash. Only the card holder could use it with photo ID, so no one should be able to steal it or force you to buy things for them.

We're headed that way, but it might be another 100 years or so, if the country lasts that long.

lilpup · August-01-11, 01:25 AM

If biometric recognition can be built into guns and car keys there should be a way to incorporate it into bridge cards.

**CLAUDE G** · August-01-11, 02:46 AM

I sell both DISH Network and Directv and the requirement is a bank Debit card or a credit card for every sale due to the fact they are leasing you equipment.

I loose 50% of all my potential customers due to this single requirement. I get people complain about this all the time, but since the service is tied to monthly payments I think both DISH Network and Directv are within their rights.

You go to a convience store type situation in the inner city, your going to find out the rate will be alot higher that do not carry debit or credit cards.

As far as credit or debit cards in a retail enviroment, I would actually feel safer accecpting cash, just due to the fact that you don't have to deal with chargebacks from the banks for fraudulant transactions.

Im a retail type enviroment, I think your going to have more issues with shop lifting than anything else. I was actually thinking of opening up a hardware store on the east side of Detroit. I was going to set the place up like a bank. In the front of the store have a big customer waiting area, and have all the merchandise behind the counter. If the customer wants something, the employee goes behind the counter to get it for them. The customer doesn't have direct contact with the merchandise period!

**Gannon** · August-01-11, 06:06 AM

This is just a bad idea...especially for start-ups.

I'd gladly trade insurance costs off the bottom line versus bank charges, fees, and interest always taken off the top. I know that is NOT accurate accounting, but once you go card-only...then only ONE is fungible, negotiable, or adjustable. Later on, you could trade some insurance cost versus security...or battle for lower rates, or simply go without. But once the bankers sink their teeth in your business, stealing their 1.675-6% on credit card service charges and equipment maintenance charges...you will never escape.

Come to think of it...that is the biggest crime. Consumers are never told how much their addiction to plastic increases the costs of doing business for their friendly local shopkeepers. Screw the banks, go cash ONLY! Then that bank crime will decrease...LOL!

Cheers