DPS EFM Roberts Imposess Sweeping 10% Wage Reduction ETC.

**Zacha341** · July-30-11, 06:46 AM

DPS's Roberts overrides contract, imposes cuts; union pres. vows fight

http://www.detnews.com/article/20110...-10--wage-cuts

**Baselinepunk** · July-30-11, 06:48 AM

Let's get ready to rumble.

**Scottathew** · July-30-11, 06:55 AM

I'm very anti-union and think teachers are generally overpaid and overprotected, but 10%, damn, that would suck.

**skyl4rk** · July-30-11, 07:04 AM

The lower paid workers should get some protection from this.

**Searay215** · July-30-11, 07:07 AM

While I am Pro Union, the teachers in this state have in my humble opinion, have never really had to take any kind of cuts that I am aware of.....Maybe they have and I am not aware of it, but it seems as though even in tough times they weren't willing to help failing school systems out.
Mostly everyone in this state has taken some kind of cut, why shouldn't they?

**Zacha341** · July-30-11, 07:13 AM

Per the article this cut included all of the unions within the district not just AFL-CIO. It will be interesting to see what will be imposed next upon the AFSCME City of Detroit workforce....

**Zacha341** · July-30-11, 07:15 AM

Per Johnson's comments on Fox 2 the concessions thus far [[TIP etc) has been to the tune of 90+ million. Apparently that is not enough. These kinds of cuts will be rolling upward to post secondary education in the near future.

Originally Posted by Searay215

While I am Pro Union, the teachers in this state have in my humble opinion, have never really had to take any kind of cuts that I am aware of.....Maybe they have and I am not aware of it, but it seems as though even in tough times they weren't willing to help failing school systems out.
Mostly everyone in this state has taken some kind of cut, why shouldn't they?

**oldredfordette** · July-30-11, 07:54 AM

Overpaid and overprotected. Well, 48091, soon your children will be as stupid as that statement. Decent teachers won't put up with this shit, they'll get better jobs somewhere else and we'll be left with the dregs. Thanks!

**Searay215** · July-30-11, 08:50 AM

Originally Posted by Zacha341

Per Johnson's comments on Fox 2 the concessions thus far [[TIP etc) has been to the tune of 90+ million. Apparently that is not enough. These kinds of cuts will be rolling upward to post secondary education in the near future.

What he is really saying is that the $90 Million is what they did not get, not that they gave anything back. I just looked over the 2009-2012 contract and even though they only get a 1% raise, its still a raise in the time that everyone else is taking cuts.

The contract actually is not bad, considering heathcare and other perks, like getting paid for sick days you didn't take....WTF?

See contract at this link: http://mi.aft.org/dft231/index.cfm?a...3-54e0573d6b89

**firstandten** · July-30-11, 08:53 AM

Originally Posted by oldredfordette

Overpaid and overprotected. Well, 48091, soon your children will be as stupid as that statement. Decent teachers won't put up with this shit, they'll get better jobs somewhere else and we'll be left with the dregs. Thanks!

Atlanta is going to have almost 200 job openings in the fall due to the cheating scandal firings
I wouldn't be surprised if this move by Roberts is a tipping point for some of them to get a better job.

lilpup · July-30-11, 09:22 AM

I have more formal education than most Detroit teachers yet I in the private sector make nowhere near what they do. I've also been told that if I got a teaching cert to go with my science/tech degree [[which politicians are always saying we need more of) that I wouldn't get hired because my education demands higher pay by contract yet no district wants to pay more for a teacher with no teaching experience. I know two others who have also run into this issue.

cushy little kingdom the teacher unions have set up

**Zacha341** · July-30-11, 09:55 AM

That's a point! I just bristle when I hear people toss out that all DPS teachers make $70,000+ salaries... Look to the admin for that range and above. Many teachers I've talked to are in the $37,000 - $45,000 range having worked a few years.

It's going to be interesting to see how this works out.

I'm a part-time instructor at a suburban community college and it's going to be interesting to see how this reverberates thru that area.... Especially as we are under the same union though a different chapter of course.

Originally Posted by Searay215

What he is really saying is that the $90 Million is what they did not get, not that they gave anything back. I just looked over the 2009-2012 contract and even though they only get a 1% raise, its still a raise in the time that everyone else is taking cuts.

The contract actually is not bad, considering heathcare and other perks, like getting paid for sick days you didn't take....WTF?

See contract at this link: http://mi.aft.org/dft231/index.cfm?a...3-54e0573d6b89

**English** · July-30-11, 10:54 AM

Originally Posted by lilpup

I have more formal education than most Detroit teachers yet I in the private sector make nowhere near what they do. I've also been told that if I got a teaching cert to go with my science/tech degree [[which politicians are always saying we need more of) that I wouldn't get hired because my education demands higher pay by contract yet no district wants to pay more for a teacher with no teaching experience. I know two others who have also run into this issue.

cushy little kingdom the teacher unions have set up

In the world according to lilpup...

**English** · July-30-11, 10:59 AM

Originally Posted by Zacha341

That's a point! I just bristle when I hear people toss out that all DPS teachers make $70,000+ salaries... Look that admin for that range and above. Many teachers I've talked to are in the $37,000 - $45,000 range having worked a few years.

It's going to be interesting to see how this works out.

I'm a part-time instructor at a suburban community college and it's going to be interesting to see how this reverberates thru that area.... Especially as we are under the same union though a different chapter of course.

What no one is pointing out is that DPS teachers have indeed "given back" and suffered through VERY well publicized wage cuts recently. Doesn't anyone remember the payroll deduction "loans" that DPS took?

It seems that people have convenient loss of short term memory when it comes to the work conditions, wages, and benefits of teachers. This is why teachers' unions were formed in the first place. It wasn't because 50 years ago teachers woke up and decided "gee, we've been treated like crap since time immemorial... let's piss off society even more!"

This is just one front in the beginning of our race to the bottom. For in late-stage capitalism, there is no such thing as a fair wage. Everyone -- and I do mean everyone except for the heads of multinational corporations -- is seen as being underworked and overpaid. But if you compare every single career to its counterparts in comparable nations, we work far more and just don't have the quality of life that people in other industrialized nations do. And we *still* are made to feel badly about ourselves, as if working 50 weeks, 60-80 hours per week still makes you a lazy slob.

**Patrick** · July-30-11, 11:06 AM

Can someone shed some light on the actual amount of $$ paid by each teacher for healthcare? What is the premium? A friend of mine teaches in Utica and pays maybe $10 a check for some of the finest health benefits around. Is it the same in the DPS? I feel that they should have the best bennies for what they do but it makes them a target by groups like the Mackinac Center

**oldredfordette** · July-30-11, 11:11 AM

It's sickening to me to see working class people defending their masters. Thanks you sir, may I have another?

Patrick, everyone should have decent health care. Everyone, even lilipup. We shouldn't bring down the teachers, we should raise everyone up to their standard [[if it is even that good).

lilpup · July-30-11, 11:39 AM

Originally Posted by English

In the world according to lilpup...

Yeah, that's the clear-eyed one without an embedded interest in this fight.

**English** · July-30-11, 11:54 AM

Are you serious? You should have an interest in this fight, unless you're independently wealthy.

lilpup · July-30-11, 12:03 PM

Honey, you're massively out of touch. I know people who pay over $350/month for medical benefits for a family [[a family monthly premium in Michigan is well over $1,000 - the employer picks up the rest).

You likely don't have the remotest clue how much your insurance really costs and how little you pay, even while taking home a decent paycheck.

**Patrick** · July-30-11, 12:11 PM

I'm a fed and I pay close to $300 a month in premiums for the most basic coverage...doesn't include dental and vision. Every basic Dr visit ends up costing $50 or more. My dad is a retired Chrysler employee and his benefits are astoundingly better than mine. Cadillac bennies my ass...Maybe the members of Congress but certainly not the lower folks.

**midwesthostage** · July-30-11, 02:47 PM

[This is just one front in the beginning of our race to the bottom. For in late-stage capitalism, there is no such thing as a fair wage. Everyone -- and I do mean everyone except for the heads of multinational corporations -- is seen as being underworked and overpaid. But if you compare every single career to its counterparts in comparable nations, we work far more and just don't have the quality of life that people in other industrialized nations do. And we *still* are made to feel badly about ourselves, as if working 50 weeks, 60-80 hours per week still makes you a lazy slob.[/QUOTE]

English, I keep wondering when everyone else is going to catch on to this, and why more people aren't completely pissed off about it! But then again this country is really run by corporations not policitians or the people . As Thomas Jefferson said "When the people fear the government there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty." They definitely don't fear the sheep masquerading as people in this society, so I think we're pretty much screwed.

**Jimaz** · July-30-11, 03:23 PM

For those unfamiliar with the term: Late capitalism

Whereas Mandel organised his explanation of the long boom mainly in terms of factors counteracting the falling rate of profit, he did not distinguish clearly between the rate and volume of profit and considered effective demand an important variable. This invited the accusation that Mandel subscribed to a theory of underconsumptionism, i.e. attributing crisis phenomena to a lack of buying power by workers. Such an approach, it was argued, is conducive to a reformist redistribution of wealth, rather than total revolution.

Hence the recent resurgence of calls to return wealth to those who earned it [[labor) from those who brazenly stole it [[corporate bailout recipients, et al.).

**DetroitTeacher** · July-30-11, 04:51 PM

I pay about 200 a pay [[but I have my son still on my policy). My benefits became less than what I had in the past and co-pays went up. That doesn't include my dental and vision. I just went to the eye doc and I only get a 38.00 allowance. I paid over 200 bucks for my visit [[and I got inexpensive frames). I usually end up paying at least 100.00 each trip to the dentist and about 50 bucks to the doc. I never get sick until I get around the kids then I am at the doc a lot and I don't go for just the usual run of the mill stuff...one time it was menegitis, another it was pnemonia [[which gets me about twice a year), bronchitis is pretty frequent in my list of ailments and don't get me started on pink eye!

Originally Posted by Patrick

Can someone shed some light on the actual amount of $$ paid by each teacher for healthcare? What is the premium? A friend of mine teaches in Utica and pays maybe $10 a check for some of the finest health benefits around. Is it the same in the DPS? I feel that they should have the best bennies for what they do but it makes them a target by groups like the Mackinac Center

lilpup · July-30-11, 05:48 PM

Originally Posted by Jimaz

Hence the recent resurgence of calls to return wealth to those who earned it [[labor) from those who brazenly stole it [[corporate bailout recipients, et al.).

The fundamental problem with that argument in this thread is that teachers and other public employees aren't getting their $$ from corporations, they're getting it from US - those of US who have already been screwed over by the corporations and are already making less than those we're obligated to support! Teachers are nowhere near the front lines in this battle. They're years behind the lines!!

**DetroitTeacher** · July-30-11, 06:11 PM

Just remember that when your house is on fire but there aren't any firefighters to put it out because they all left for more lucrative positions...they are part of the public employees of which you speak. So are the cops, folks who pick up your garbage, EMS folks...teachers are just the people who are educating those who will be supporting us [[and the politicians who will be making decisions about us) when we get old. I just hope that this generation of kids [[and those of future generations) don't say F.U., where were you when we needed an education? We can't help you because you didn't help us.

Teachers caused NONE of the problems that we are facing now. I haven't had a pay raise in, well, I don't know when [[that 1% we got was promptly taken away and then some)...I have, however: taken pay cuts, loaned my employer money, donated sick days to DPS, and purchased supplies in order to do my job...all so that DPS might be able to stay afloat. I was not the one [[nor was anyone in the classrooms) embezzling money, stealing, and misappropriating funds from DPS. THAT was done by the folks who were voted in to office and those who were appointed on the friends and family plan of those who were voted in...

Originally Posted by lilpup

The fundamental problem with that argument in this thread is that teachers and other public employees aren't getting their $$ from corporations, they're getting it from US - those of US who have already been screwed over by the corporations and are already making less than those we're obligated to support! Teachers are nowhere near the front lines in this battle. They're years behind the lines!!