Grosse Pointe Schools to become school of choice?

[Kevgoblue]

Interesting.
As our resident nerd governor continues in his quest to dismantle public education, it looks like there may be some unanticipated consequences for some of his stronghold Rublican voting constituancy.
My guess is that the district will argue that school capacity is not dictated by school size, rather the numer of teachers and they will adjust their staff to just accomodate the current level of students.

Guess the old saying is true: be careful what you ask for, you just might get it.

http://www.freep.com/article/2011072...choice-mandate

[Zacha341]

Fasten your seat belts it's gonna be a bumpy ride. The 'comments' section to that article are a trip...

As our resident nerd governor continues in his quest to dismantle public education...
Guess the old saying is true: be careful what you ask for, you just might get it.

http://www.freep.com/article/2011072...choice-mandate

[animatedmartian]

You mean they are actually still kids who attend school in Detroit? I thought all the bad kids in DPS are the ones who never show up.

[Detroitnerd]

A few of those Freep comments stood out to me. One was:

"I feel for every person who lives or goes to school in GP. The best advice I can give is get out now there is no saving it. Next, you will see metal detectors at the doors, remember what happened in Flint with the kindergardener. Don't put your children in danger move as far North as you can!"

Another was:

"Its simple really. I'll take my massive tax bill on my nice house and sell it. Then there will be a housing bust in GP and Wayne County can S*&K iT."

But this is the same mentality of people who left Detroit, and took their considerable resources with them, leaving the community poorer, with less revenue, and basically caused a "bust" in home values. And then, 10 years later, they said that "those people" were responsible for destroying their former neighborhoods, right? How long are we doomed to this cycle of flight and blame?

[Goose]

A few of those Freep comments stood out to me. One was:

"I feel for every person who lives or goes to school in GP. The best advice I can give is get out now there is no saving it. Next, you will see metal detectors at the doors, remember what happened in Flint with the kindergardener. Don't put your children in danger move as far North as you can!"

Another was:

"Its simple really. I'll take my massive tax bill on my nice house and sell it. Then there will be a housing bust in GP and Wayne County can S*&K iT."

But this is the same mentality of people who left Detroit, and took their considerable resources with them, leaving the community poorer, with less revenue, and basically caused a "bust" in home values. And then, 10 years later, they said that "those people" were responsible for destroying their former neighborhoods, right? How long are we doomed to this cycle of flight and blame?

regardless of what you think about it, its going to happen... the once stately homes in Grosse Pointe are on a collision course to become the new Boston Edison area....

a shell of its former glory....

sad....

[Detroitnerd]

You mean regardless of who I think is responsible for it. If it's the people who live there pulling up stakes and knowingly leaving their neighborhood destitute, instead of choosing to stay and fight for excellence, who do you think is responsible?

[Hypestyles]

If the GP schools can be opened up to all kids and stay within capacity boundaries, that's good.. it needs to be about kids and not turf-protection.. the stereotype that every inner-city kid is a latent gangbanger is nakedly racist..

[muskie1]

I agree ,it is about the kids. I have unfortunately seen what the results of living in a schools of choice area can do to your neighborhood. The new guy down the street moved in because he liked the area when a couple of his kids attended school here. He bought a nice home and brought along two of his teenage sons who stayed in their old school system until the move.

I met him when he moved in and he seemed like a nice responsible single dad, within a week of the move the two sons stole a neighbors motorcyle and sold it. When it was recovered the police said there was not really enough evidence to prosecute as the person who bought it would not testify,said he was not sure who exactly he got it from. Over the winter the sons did a drive by shooting at a house about a mile away after a school altercation, only one was prosecuted. Last month the house was raided and a bunch of weed and plants were removed and the dad said he was ignorant to how they got in his sons room, anothe kid hauled to jail.

The idiot actually had the balls to ask myself and another neighbor why we would no longer be friendly to him, his wonderful quote was " I can't control the s**t my kid do ,so don't hold it against me." I no longer leave my garage door open while working in there as I am now afraid of them seeing my tools.

So, unless a great deal of screening is done on the incoming students I feell that these schools are a great harm to their communities.

[Goose]

funny that this issue is the one that is bringing the left and the right together on the "recall snyder" inititive....

[Don K]

I foresee lots of Republicans in the Bloomfields and Birmingham asking themselves, "Why the f**k did we vote for this moron again?"

Without getting into racial issues at all, even if every added student in Bloomfield Hills Schools were to be equally prepared and motivated, and were to have equally involved parents, the dollars tell you that Schools of Choice will inevitably result in dilution of education quality. In the '09-'10 school year [[ http://www.michigan.gov/documents/md...0_349994_7.pdf - go to page 32 of the pdf), BHS had about $14,700 to spend on each student. That's because we tax ourselves sufficiently at the local level to provide more than $8,000 per student. Tell me $7,000 from the state for each out-of-district kid will be sufficient to accommodate the new kids while still maintaining the course offerings and quality presently offered. The numbers for Birmingham Public Schools are similar. I suppose there will be lots more parents contemplating stretching to afford the tuition at Country Day, Cranbrook, or Roper.

Another district that likely will be up in arms is Southfield [[yes, Southfield). Southfield Public Schools also do not offer schools of choice, probably because they also have more than $14,000 in funding per student, likely because of all of the commercial property in the district.

I'm betting this will be one vote in the legislature that will not be strictly along party lines. And if it is I predict lynch mobs coming after Chuck Moss and John Pappageorge.

[Red Devil]

If Snyder really tries to push this he will be history by next fall.

[bartock]

I foresee lots of Republicans in the Bloomfields and Birmingham asking themselves, "Why the f**k did we vote for this moron again?"

Without getting into racial issues at all, even if every added student in Bloomfield Hills Schools were to be equally prepared and motivated, and were to have equally involved parents, the dollars tell you that Schools of Choice will inevitably result in dilution of education quality. In the '09-'10 school year [[ http://www.michigan.gov/documents/md...0_349994_7.pdf - go to page 32 of the pdf), BHS had about $14,700 to spend on each student. That's because we tax ourselves sufficiently at the local level to provide more than $8,000 per student. Tell me $7,000 from the state for each out-of-district kid will be sufficient to accommodate the new kids while still maintaining the course offerings and quality presently offered. The numbers for Birmingham Public Schools are similar. I suppose there will be lots more parents contemplating stretching to afford the tuition at Country Day, Cranbrook, or Roper.

Another district that likely will be up in arms is Southfield [[yes, Southfield). Southfield Public Schools also do not offer schools of choice, probably because they also have more than $14,000 in funding per student, likely because of all of the commercial property in the district.

I'm betting this will be one vote in the legislature that will not be strictly along party lines. And if it is I predict lynch mobs coming after Chuck Moss and John Pappageorge.

Right on. I voted for and have defended Snyder, but this has me pissed.

[Zacha341]

Hmmn ------ It IS a bad day when conservatives do not behave conservatively or when dems don't behave liberally re. certain politics and policies... Expect more of this shift-shaping in the future.

Right on. I voted for and have defended Snyder, but this has me pissed.

[Detroitej72]

If the residents of Grosse Pointe or Bloomfield vote to have a higher millage for additional funding for schools, then it should be their choice if they accept students from other districts.

[Danny]

So 'Richville' will let 'Underpriviledge' kids into their fancy schools. Ok, Let's see what happens if they bring them bring those Detroit kids from the other side of Mack and Alter Rd. to Deiter Elementary and see how the demographics change.

WORD FROM THE STREET PROPHET

While Poupard Elementary is filling up with African American students.

Nada, I miss you so.

[bartock]

If the residents of Grosse Pointe or Bloomfield vote to have a higher millage for additional funding for schools, then it should be their choice if they accept students from other districts.

Exactly. It isn't about being liberal or conservative.

[Zacha341]

I agree with that to a point. But it seems that some GPP residents are surprised or at least disappointed that Snyder would choose to implement this option.

Exactly. It isn't about being liberal or conservative.

[bartock]

I agree with that to a point. But it seems that some GPP residents are surprised or at least disappointed that Snyder would choose to implement this option.

I admit to being a case of careful what you wish for. I didn't think that I was against the EFM thing, but now I am. Hard for me to say "hey wait, you can't do THAT [[school of choice)" if I'm supporting him doing the EFM.

[bailey]

You mean regardless of who I think is responsible for it. If it's the people who live there pulling up stakes and knowingly leaving their neighborhood destitute, instead of choosing to stay and fight for excellence, who do you think is responsible?

The people who live in GP are threatening to pull up stakes because they are about to have the problems of the worst major school system in the country laid at their feet. There is no "shared sacrifice" here. It's simply a money grab. This has nothing to do with a fight for excellence. GP has DONE THAT ALREADY by voting to TAX THEMSELVES MORE to pay for the amenities that those in the GPs feel are important. If you want GP schools MOVE TO GP, PAY TAXES IN GP and enjoy full and free access to all the communities offer. This is a wealth transfer and exactly the sort of thing that keeps this region from ever being able to trust anyone when it comes to "regionalization".

Franky, DPS should be just as wary of this proposal because it's simply going to act to speed up the mass exodus.

[English]

Sheer demography means that this is inevitable everywhere. I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but middle class and/or educated women of all races are NOT procreating. If and when they [[well, we) do, it tends to be later in life and usually only 1, perhaps 2 kids. That isn't even anywhere near the replacement rate.

Those who are having 2-3 or more kids tend to be less wealthy, people of color, those who are very religious [[who don't send their kids to public schools anyway), and/or those with fewer resources. Do the math. What do you expect to happen, seriously? In 25 years it will be difficult to maintain de facto segregated public schooling. If you don't want your grandkids to attend classes with poorer children, or children of color, you will have two options: private or homeschooling.

We have been discussing these trends for as long as I've been in education. So I am loving the comments from conservatives who are suddenly defending teachers. They loved educational reform as long as it was about poor stupid black and brown kids and their lazy teachers in crumbling inner-city schools. Now that Snyder is proposing that we provide more options across district lines for kids in "failing" school districts, people who voted for the Tough Nerd are changing their tune. It is hilarious!

[Danny]

BAILEY SEZ...."The people who live in GP are threatening to pull up stakes because they are about to have the problems of the worst major school system in the country laid at their feet."

I agree with you. Methinks that 'rich folks' of 'Grosse Pointes' may want to put a 6ft. concrete wall along Mack and Alter Rd. They don't to spend their hard earned city tax monies to folks coming from ghetto to get their education. Look what happen to a black student who went to Grosse Pointe South High School who robbed a local convenient store.

"Franky, DPS should be just as wary of this proposal because it's simply going to act to speed up the mass exodus."

For sure just like they went to Downtown River Rouge last year in when Detroit Public Schools volunteers put their "I'm In" flyers in front of the Webber Gymnasium. That's until a black loyal young man [[A River Rouge Public School Alumni) came by, pick flyers off the ground and yell to the DPS volunteers telling them to get the '%^$@! out.

[bartock]

Sheer demography means that this is inevitable everywhere. I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but middle class and/or educated women of all races are NOT procreating. If and when they [[well, we) do, it tends to be later in life and usually only 1, perhaps 2 kids. That isn't even anywhere near the replacement rate.

Those who are having 2-3 or more kids tend to be less wealthy, people of color, those who are very religious [[who don't send their kids to public schools anyway), and/or those with fewer resources. Do the math. What do you expect to happen, seriously? In 25 years it will be difficult to maintain de facto segregated public schooling. If you don't want your grandkids to attend classes with poorer children, or children of color, you will have two options: private or homeschooling.

We have been discussing these trends for as long as I've been in education. So I am loving the comments from conservatives who are suddenly defending teachers. They loved educational reform as long as it was about poor stupid black and brown kids and their lazy teachers in crumbling inner-city schools. Now that Snyder is proposing that we provide more options across district lines for kids in "failing" school districts, people who voted for the Tough Nerd are changing their tune. It is hilarious!

Those communities that have chosen and voted to raise their own taxes in order to invest in education in their community should be able to also determine whether they want to be a school of choice. As you say "more options across district lines", I say there are enough communities already that have chosen to be school of choice. Why force it on the others? Plus, there was a good point already made about what something like this will likely mean for the future of DPS.

[brizee]

Sheer demography means that this is inevitable everywhere. I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but middle class and/or educated women of all races are NOT procreating. If and when they [[well, we) do, it tends to be later in life and usually only 1, perhaps 2 kids. That isn't even anywhere near the replacement rate.

Those who are having 2-3 or more kids tend to be less wealthy, people of color, those who are very religious [[who don't send their kids to public schools anyway), and/or those with fewer resources. Do the math. What do you expect to happen, seriously? In 25 years it will be difficult to maintain de facto segregated public schooling. If you don't want your grandkids to attend classes with poorer children, or children of color, you will have two options: private or homeschooling.

We have been discussing these trends for as long as I've been in education. So I am loving the comments from conservatives who are suddenly defending teachers. They loved educational reform as long as it was about poor stupid black and brown kids and their lazy teachers in crumbling inner-city schools. Now that Snyder is proposing that we provide more options across district lines for kids in "failing" school districts, people who voted for the Tough Nerd are changing their tune. It is hilarious!

It is delicious schaudnfraude looking at the "I meant it was good enough for THEM, not ME!" attitudes.

And a correction to all the article commentors. They aren't "Detroiters" as you keep referring to them. The word you're looking for is "neighbor".

[bartock]

It is delicious schaudnfraude looking at the "I meant it was good enough for THEM, not ME!" attitudes.

And a correction to all the article commentors. They aren't "Detroiters" as you keep referring to them. The word you're looking for is "neighbor".

That word gets misused often on these boards. I don't see any schadenfreude on this board. If you are talking about the Freep, probably.

[English]

It is delicious schaudnfraude looking at the "I meant it was good enough for THEM, not ME!" attitudes.

And a correction to all the article commentors. They aren't "Detroiters" as you keep referring to them. The word you're looking for is "neighbor".

Right. Because, I mean, how can you tell what a person is like just from looking at them? Black = Detroiter = BAD!!!

With behavior like this, is it any wonder that even middle class and upper middle class African Americans are wary about visiting, living, and sending their CHILDREN into certain places? Do these folks sincerely believe that little five and six year olds are coming out to the Pointes to rob their banks and molest their children?

Yes, I get it -- we ought to "challenge" the "You're not WANTED!!!!" mentality. But it's not 1961, it's 2011. This is a global economy, and the only color in the end that matters is GREEN. I am not marching or sitting in so that I can live, work, and play with racist so-and-sos. There are plenty of cool people of ALL races who are actually living in the 21st century. I rub shoulders with them, patronize their Detroit businesses, and live next door to them in the city. We are the future.

Of course, that's just me. Many African American parents are like the poor lady who dared to post a comment. She's a middle class married Detroit mother who says that she and her husband would be interested in putting their well-behaved children in schools in the Pointes. Oh, the abuse she received. Why subject young black children to the social and emotional abuse of sick adults -- who, unlike in the 1960s and before KNOW BETTER -- just to prove a point?