5 firms will offer staff cash to live in downtown Detroit

[DetroitPole]

This is good news, indeed. The naysayers are borderline bizarre in this thread. However, my problem is: WHAT ABOUT THE REST OF THE CITY?
Seriously, how about some incentives to live in the Villages or NW Detroit? The few remaining stable neighborhoods are still good places to live except for the vacancies and forclosures. Downtown professionals have been living in these neighborhoods for decades, a century for some of the neighborhoods. The neighborhoods may not be Midtown, but are still a hell of a lot closer and more walkable than Commerce Township, Canton, or Shelby Township.
Since the Bing junta has all but collapsed and his Next Detroit initiative has been put on hold till "next year" [[read: ain't gonna happen) we out here could use some help from the private sector too. As it has been since the Young era, downtown gets most of the focus, and the rest of the city suffers. Look where that has gotten us.
I love greater downtown, but it almost seems as if its time to cut the apron strings and that it is attractive enough on its own and doesn't need to be subsidized anymore. And no, it will never be attractive to the Joneses with their 2 children, Collie, SUV, and McMansion in Macomb, but attractive to enough to enough other demographics.

[rencense]

I'm with you Detroitpole,

I love many of the neighborhoods in Detroit and hate to see them so neglected. The incentives do make sense but you're right and downtown/midtown have been growing pretty well by themselves fairly organically.

Many ok to great neighborhoods in NW but unfortunately most of NW is single family homes [[except palmer park which i think will benefit greatly from the m1 rail) which would require a different incentive package. You could still offer some cash assistance to buy a house but I would imagine the program participants are worried about spreading their money too thin.

That doesn't mean that there aren't areas still pretty close to downtown that could use the help. West village pops into mind [[already has a bit of a cool vibe and some apt buildings) and could definitely use some help. Also the east riverfront has lots of apt bldgs on the water that I think could become much better.

An important element is to figure out who is most likely to move back to the city first and that would probably be our young people. Now I'm one of those that would love to buy a house by the river or maybe NW but no matter how cheap the house the ongoing expenses are intimidating and I'm not ready for that kind of commitment. Therefore it would be great to see the program expand but whatever area you pick probably needs to fill 2 major requirements: 1) reasonably close proximity to downtown and 2) a fair number of apt buildings/spaces already in place so it doesnt need to be built from scratch.

[jsmyers]

I certainly understand that sentiment, but the thing is that a rapid and significant increase in the number of office tenants and residents in Central Detroit are the only thing that can create and sustain a walkable and vibrant central city. A vibrant central city will over time do more to help those neighborhoods [[and the region as a whole, to a lesser extent) than any short-term program for the neighborhood.

There are a lot of positive spillover effects from what is proposed [[and already in place in Midtown), while there aren't very strong spillovers from including neighborhoods disconnected from downtown. Even the negative effect of pricing some renters out of the central markets helps neighborhoods like the ones you mention.

[mwilbert]

I think incentives for rentals in the Palmer Park apartment district might be good, but you need to concentrate incentives in order to have much effect--there are only so many people who you might consider moving into the city in the first place, and if you have incentives in too many neighborhoods, you dilute the effect--the "spreading too thin" rencense mentions.

But even leaving dilution aside, I have grave doubts about incentives in the areas of Detroit with larger houses [[greater Palmer Park, Bagley, Rosedale, B-E, etc.) because most of those houses just aren't that expensive compared with the cost of upkeep. The last thing you want to do is encourage someone to buy a house they can't maintain.

And even though some people reject the idea, downtown and midtown are more important to the city.

[DetroitUA]

You posters who think this is a bad thing are crazy! "It looks desperate" - well, Detroit and Michigan are desperate. It needs all the help it can get, and someone puts out their hand to help - you don't like how they are doing it because of your pride? Do you have a better idea that you have the means to implement?

And the person who is worried about people moving downtown because he likes it quiet - it's called a city - a metropolitan area...meaning - dare I say it? PEOPLE - which is something Downtown does not have, but needs to have to resurge and survive. You can't rely on tourists, or suburbanites driving in for sporting events. These businesses providing the incentives are based in downtown, so obviously they want people to live directly surrounding their campus'. The villages and other areas you wish they had incentives for will come later - when downtown demand fills up and has no vacancy. Thats how cities work. They start from one point and grow out. Which I'm sure is what they have in mind for this concept. Re-establish downtown first, and then start working on the surrounding areas.

I visited your city last weekend and was really impressed. I love Chicago, I have a job here and am happy - but I will definitely visit Detroit more in the future, and if I didn't have a job and found one in Detroit, I'd be happy to relocate to downtown and chip in to this great movement!

[detroitsgwenivere]

While the rest of the city is depopulating at an alarming rate, you worry that your area may get too many people moving in..... what is wrong with this picture?

I'm not worried about too many people moving in to the downtown business district in general. I'm just not looking forward to increased traffic, yuppies, and most importantly, rents. Not an unreasonable opinion.

When the rents go up, people like myself who won't be able to afford it, who have stuck with downtown through it's absolute worst, are going to be forced out. Where are the incentives for people like me?

Maybe people like me don't fit into the plans for "New Detroit."

And change scares a lot of people. Especially when they don't have any say in it. This initiative was never discussed with any neighborhood CDC, some of who may have had some plans of their own for bringing new people into their existing housing.

[Scottathew]

This is good news, indeed. The naysayers are borderline bizarre in this thread. However, my problem is: WHAT ABOUT THE REST OF THE CITY?

DetroitPole,

This is just step one. We need a strong, vibrant CBD bustling with people. We've moved the jobs, now we just need to get the people to move with them.

Business have been opening up like crazy downtown with BCBS, DTE, and Quicken moving jobs down here.

And for all of those who say this is a bad thing, well then I dare to suggest you're part of the problem, not the solution. Yes, it sucks we need incentives to get people down here, however, if that's what it takes then let's do it!

I love Detroit, and I want every dollar of those incentives to be used up.

[jsmyers]

This initiative was never discussed with any neighborhood CDC, some of who may have had some plans of their own for bringing new people into their existing housing.

Not involving or communicating with the Corktown CDC is bad form [[if true), but the program is being implemented by the "midtown" CDC and the closest thing that Detroit has to a downtown CDC [[Downtown Detroit Partnership).

[coracle]

I remember several months ago reading that Mayor Bing was [[literally) giving houses away to Police Officers who would move back to live in Detroit neighborhoods. I wonder how this scheme is working and how many Officers have taken advantage of it.

[MSUguy]

Anyone heard Mike Valenti's reaction to this? Im sure he was on his "Nothing good will work in Detroit" soapbox.

Yeah, I love Mike been listening to him since when he just just in the Lansing area and no one scews with Wolverine crowd like he does. But when I comes to Detroit issues even I usually end up having to turn him off

[brizee]

Here it is

[English]

I think it's a great thing. I don't qualify for either the Live Midtown or Live Downtown programs because of where I've chosen to stay, but anything that increases density in the core is great. Glad to see Corktown and Woodbridge included; it's a shame that the WSU/DMC/HFHS employees that I know who live in those neighborhoods don't qualify.

I'm in the target demographic, and lots of us are buying and renting in areas outside the favored few. I checked today to see if there were any rentals available in my complex -- there is nothing available, although "something may come up at the end of August." Yesterday, I was chatting with someone about my place and someone told me about their buddy purchasing there and another friend's interest [[these were affable, professional looking young white guys)... I do *really* love where I live so far, and so do my family and friends. I know $20K is a lot to add to my down payment savings, but not enough to make me want to move somewhere else.

Most of my cohort of new faculty had already gotten situated before the grants were announced, since we were hired in 6 months before. I suspect it will be similar with the downtown companies -- the incentive itself may not be taken by everyone, but there are people moving here no matter what and the fact that the company is encouraging it instead of assuming everyone is a commuter is great. I wouldn't know for sure, but that's just my hunch from everything I am observing on the ground.

[Patrick]

Maybe people like me don't fit into the plans for "New Detroit."

Move to Roseville

[rencense]

I'm a little surprised the boundaries end at 94 to the north. It seems to me that [[at least south) new center area kind of falls in with midtown. I've been looking at new center quite a bit lately, overall its a pretty cool spot if not jumping with nightlife [[though a quick trek to midtown)

Oh well, new center still has some great apartment values so maybe the incentives aren't as important as in midtown where rents are up and vacancy is down.

[Mind field]

I'm not worried about too many people moving in to the downtown business district in general. I'm just not looking forward to increased traffic, yuppies, and most importantly, rents. Not an unreasonable opinion.

Yes because it's much more desirable to have gang bangers shooting up clubs and tons of homeless on the streets.

[313WX]

I guess we'll have to accept the fact that the 120- or 130-odd miles outside the Grand Blvd. loop [[or even areas outside the Grand Blvd/I-75/M-10/Detroit River loop) just doesn't fit into that vision of "New Detroit." It's just no one has come and said it out right, but it's pretty obvious from the blatant civic and economic neglect of the neighborhoods outside downtown and how the biggest Detroit "boosters" rarely if ever speak of anything outside of downtown/midtown.

[Jason]

In the grand scheme of things those neighborhoods don't matter as much as greater downtown does.

I don't think it's worth pouring resources into some of those other neighborhoods just so that the region has another pleasant block of single family houses, even if those houses are in a neighborhood which is slightly older and denser than one in a suburb.

[masterblaster]

Many outer neighborhoods of Detroit were centered around commercial districts just like inner ring suburbs like Ferndale and Royal Oak and Berkley.

Do you know how much Palmer Woods/University District/Sherwood Forest/Green Acres/Bagley would be OFF THE CHAIN if the 7 Mile/Livernois commercial district was filled with trendy shops and boutiques? And these neighborhoods would be more desirable if that area's signature park, Palmer Park, was restored to its original grandeur. Houses wouldn't be selling for $40,000 in University District, that's for sure. Single-family house neighborhoods in cities like Seattle, Portland, Atlanta, Chicago, etc. are being restored - not everybody that's moving to those cities are living downtown.

People always rag on the Detroit's outer 'hoods, but the vast majority of them were built like older suburbs like Ferndale and Berkley and Rochester - where single-family houses are built on top of each other and you are within walking distance of a pedestrian-friendly commercial district. These places are popular because they are safe, and they are built like that.

I do love that downtown/midtown are being focused on and revived, but I think that if we concentrate on re-building these mini-downtowns like Grand River/Greenfield and Jefferson-Chalmers, and improving/maintaining nearby parks and rec centers, as well as tackling obvious public safety issues, then these neighborhoods would become greatly desirable to certain demographics - just as Ferndale and Berkley and Dearborn are.

[kryptonite]

Yes because it's much more desirable to have gang bangers shooting up clubs and tons of homeless on the streets.

I agree totally. Any plan offered in Detroit always brings out the Nimbys and the Piss-and-moan crowd. I guess they believe the status quo [[sh*ttiest city in America) is too good to tamper with.

This is an innovative plan that attempts to bring a few new residents to the Downtown/Midtown areas, to address the 40+ year pattern of job/population loss that has left Detroit so abandoned.

Things ARE improving in the central city area, Midtown possibly more so than Downtown. But things appear to be on the mend and positive thinking by several business leaders are making positive improvements. Compare the cleanliness and large number of flowers that you enjoy downtown nowadays, largely due to Penske's clean-up effort. The privately-funded rail project has made more progress than any other effort to initiate mass transit in Detroit, festivals, concerts, the River Conservancy, etc. Without private involvement few these projects would have ever materialized.

This housing incentive is just another innovation, in my opinion congratulations to the people that came up with these ideas.

[mwilbert]

Do you know how much Palmer Woods/University District/Sherwood Forest/Green Acres/Bagley would be OFF THE CHAIN if the 7 Mile/Livernois commercial district was filled with trendy shops and boutiques?

Retail follows population, not the other way around. The stores on the Avenue of Fashion changed because the surrounding neighborhoods became less affluent, because of the general shift in retailing away from neighborhood stores to larger ones, and because of the crime problem. It isn't a retail desert now, but the only way it will ever be anything like what it once was is if there are people living in the immediate vicinity who would support the shops. Really high gas prices would probably help.

[JStone]

Like it or not, for good or for bad, Detroit won't ever fix it's problems without having a full buy-in by "Yuppies". Simple fact.

Good news though for "non-yuppies", the city has plenty of space still for everyone for decades upon decades to come.

I believe that's how the cycle in every other decent, desirable, functioning city goes. We're just completely insane here.

[ghettopalmetto]

Does anyone know if there's another city in the country where employers have to pay people to live in the city? In the world?

Why not? We pay for you to live in the suburbs when you take your federal mortgage interest deduction.

[bartock]

Why not? We pay for you to live in the suburbs when you take your federal mortgage interest deduction.

The above is flying right over my head...

Anyway, the businessowners are putting their money behind the incentives [[which would be taxable to the beneficiaries), so I say have at it.

[Jason]

Many outer neighborhoods of Detroit were centered around commercial districts just like inner ring suburbs like Ferndale and Royal Oak and Berkley.

Do you know how much Palmer Woods/University District/Sherwood Forest/Green Acres/Bagley would be OFF THE CHAIN if the 7 Mile/Livernois commercial district was filled with trendy shops and boutiques? And these neighborhoods would be more desirable if that area's signature park, Palmer Park, was restored to its original grandeur. Houses wouldn't be selling for $40,000 in University District, that's for sure. Single-family house neighborhoods in cities like Seattle, Portland, Atlanta, Chicago, etc. are being restored - not everybody that's moving to those cities are living downtown.

People always rag on the Detroit's outer 'hoods, but the vast majority of them were built like older suburbs like Ferndale and Berkley and Rochester - where single-family houses are built on top of each other and you are within walking distance of a pedestrian-friendly commercial district. These places are popular because they are safe, and they are built like that.

I do love that downtown/midtown are being focused on and revived, but I think that if we concentrate on re-building these mini-downtowns like Grand River/Greenfield and Jefferson-Chalmers, and improving/maintaining nearby parks and rec centers, as well as tackling obvious public safety issues, then these neighborhoods would become greatly desirable to certain demographics - just as Ferndale and Berkley and Dearborn are.

That's my point though, those neighborhoods are pretty similar to the suburbs, but they still have most of the problems that all of Detroit does. You could pour massive resources into completely fixing those neighborhoods but that would just bring them up to the level of the suburbs, except a little nicer because the buildings are a little older and nicer.

You could pour money into Indian Village, and it could become just as nice as Grosse Pointe, but Grosse Pointe already exists just down Jefferson. I think it would be great for any neighborhood in the city to improve, but downtown is unique within the region, and it's more important in the grand scheme of things.