Drug abuse and legalized drugs in Portugal after 10 years

**Django** · July-20-11, 10:11 PM

http://blogs.forbes.com/erikkain/201...f-in-portugal/

Drug abuse cut in half after 10 years of legalized drugs in Portugal.

Health experts in Portugal said Friday that Portugal’s decision 10 years ago to decriminalise drug use and treat addicts rather than punishing them is an experiment that has worked.
"There is no doubt that the phenomenon of addiction is in decline in Portugal," said Joao Goulao, President of the Institute of Drugs and Drugs Addiction, a press conference to mark the 10th anniversary of the law.
The number of addicts considered "problematic" — those who repeatedly use "hard" drugs and intravenous users — had fallen by half since the early 1990s, when the figure was estimated at around 100,000 people, Goulao said.
Other factors had also played their part however, Goulao, a medical doctor added.
"This development can not only be attributed to decriminalisation but to a confluence of treatment and risk reduction policies."

Anybody want to argue?

**Bigb23** · July-21-11, 06:55 AM

That seems a little easy Django -

We've only tried the American way for oh, 90 years now. Let's wait another 20-30 years while we throw billions more into local, state, and federal agencies for drug enforcement and correctional systems. After that time, if we are still losing the battle, we can have Congressional panels look into it for several years, make recommendations to agencies who will fight tooth and nail for their money, and then we'll see.

**Detroitej72** · July-21-11, 07:57 AM

As long as there is profits in the failed war on drugs and incarceration of addicts, there will be no change in our status quo.

**Hypestyles** · July-21-11, 02:07 PM

...definitely too much money in keeping the status quo here as is.. prisons, law enforcement bureaucracy, weapons & ammunition makers, etc.; beyond that the "intellectual" arguments get hemmed up in the hysteria from law & order absolutists, religious fundamentalists, and those who assume that "decriminalization" or "legalization/regulation" automatically means promoting drug usage to children by default..

**Django** · July-21-11, 10:37 PM

Originally Posted by Detroitej72

As long as there is profits in the failed war on drugs and incarceration of addicts, there will be no change in our status quo.

Great point, but if we as a whole would see the point things will change. Thats exactly why I constantly am bringing up this subject, just to get ppl thinking about it. I still believe in The United States Of America and believe that ultimately the ppls voice will rule. They cant ignore a festering thorn forever, Its been 40 years and I think the ship is finally turning but its going to take a long time.
The long term benefits of harm reduction and rehab will be a bitch to sell against the short term profits of incarceration of users and dealers.

Ill say it again, comercial prisons are the equal to modern day slavery. Those who support it are modern day KKK..

**Django** · July-22-11, 05:40 AM

Just happened upon this article on modern day slavery a minute ago.

http://www.alternet.org/story/151732...kOkaT&rd=1&t=2

It’s no secret that America imprisons more of its citizens than any other nation in history. With just 5 percent of the world’s population, the US currently holds 25 percent of the world's prisoners. In 2008, over 2.3 million Americans were in prison or jail, with one of every 48 working-age men behind bars. That doesn’t include the tens of thousands of detained undocumented immigrants facing deportation, prisoners awaiting sentencing, or juveniles caught up in the school-to-prison pipeline.

**Bigb23** · July-22-11, 06:03 AM

I've posted this before - but, the biggest company you've never heard of -

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=szNLMtgI7hU

And - all our problems rolled into a short monolog.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l8rQNdBmPek&NR=1

**Bigb23** · July-22-11, 07:31 AM

@RandomConcepts Libertarians believe that if you do bad business, you should go out of business, not be bailed out by so called "regulators" who claim their acting in the interest of the public by stealing its money and allocating it to their executive buddies who in turn proceed to give themselves bonuses. The Government's job is to regulate against crime, not intervene in private business practice. The problem is that "regulators" and executives collude to erase the line between the two.

**mjs** · July-23-11, 05:26 PM

Its absolutely inhumane how we treat our druggies. Next time one of them is facing jail time, the prosecutor should save the taxpayers some money and do the decent thing by offering them a new type of plea deal. Agree to drop all the charges if the defendant accepts a one way ticket to the bankrupt druggie haven. Imagine how many people won't be in our prisons.

**Django** · July-24-11, 12:55 AM

mjs, so you support putting people in jail for even simple possession of a drug that is available everywhere and that they are addicted, to meaning until they are getting or given help prison will somehow help the situation. Its either that or send them to Portugal? Get real please.

**mjs** · July-24-11, 06:46 AM

I was being a smart responding to the same old tired argument, decriminaling drugs. Drugs are destructive to society. They harm friendships, families, and community bonds. Admit that at least a little part of the decision to take drugs is to give established society a big middle finger. Drugs are the Huns of society and decriminalization would allow them to plunge us into a dark age of American history.

Part of my sarcasm came from using Portugal as the success story. Decriminalized our not, I wouldn't hire a lazy pot head or moron coke head as an employee. End of story. They're not all blah blah blah. I need to play the odds. Portugal has the lowest GDP per capita in all of Europe and their ratio of contributing members of society to government dole programs has made their debt so high that it threatens to drag the whole of Europe into a second great depression. This is the government programs we should copy? The point I was trying to make through sarcasm is that policies such as this sound great for a select minority until the rest of society has to live with how they affect the bigger picture.

If a druggie wants treatment, he can get it. If they want to plea out of possession charges with a commitment to treatment, it can happen. Go visit you're local courthouse and see. It happens a thousand times a day.

If the argument is increased funding for treatment, then make that argument seperate from decriminalization. It's illegality doesn't ban it's treatment. Use both the carrot and the stick. Having represented these morons every day, trust me, you ned the stick to get them to take the carrot.

Steve bennet · July-24-11, 10:15 PM

Originally Posted by mjs

I was being a smart responding to the same old tired argument, decriminaling drugs. Drugs are destructive to society.

Actually, our drug laws and drug prohibition have destroyed more lives than the actual drugs themselves. Until alcohol and tobacco are deemed illegal, you or any other prohibitionist, have no argument.

Steve bennet · July-24-11, 10:23 PM

Originally Posted by mjs

Drugs are the Huns of society and decriminalization would allow them to plunge us into a dark age of American history.

Considering people can still get locked up in cages for growing a NATURAL PLANT, sick people can still get denied medical marijuana to improve the quality of their life, and grown adults aren't even allowed to put what they want into their own bodies in a country that's suppose to be "free", I'd make a good case that we already are in a dark age of American history.

I love the people who preach LIBERTY, which is defined by freedom from government restriction and control, are often the same people who agree with the government telling us what we can and can't do with our own bodies.

All that money wasted on the failed "Drug War" and locking people up, billions upon billions, could have been better spent actually educating people on drugs. What a concept.

**barnesfoto** · July-25-11, 02:53 AM

Drugs are destructive to society. They harm friendships, families, and community bonds.

You can say the same thing about television, and it's perfectly legal. Oddly enough, the last time I visited my parents, [[who against my wishes, own a television and are unrepentant television users) the broadcasted drivel was constantly interrupted by ads encouraging men to use a DRUG called Viagra.
There were numerous ads for an endless array of other DRUGS too.

What part of "hypocrisy" don't you understand?

Steve bennet · July-25-11, 11:32 AM

Don't forget alcohol, which is usually the main force behind every every beaten child, beaten wife, and broken home. I see plenty of glamorous Bacardi ads glorifying drug use not only on television, but on billboards. I guess a deadly violent destructive drug is alright to use as long as you drink it.
Forget all that, lets throw people in jail for growing plants.

**Django** · July-25-11, 11:53 AM

mjs, Ive never understood why ppl would think that if drugs are decrimed that everyone would go out and start smoking crack and shooting dope, you seem to have little faith in people and what they know would be bad for them. Why did drug use take such a huge dive in Portugal then? Drugs are generally bad, no shit. If you dont want to hire someone who smokes pot thats fine, your decision. I know many more smokers who hold good jobs and do their jobs well than I do ppl who smoke who cant handle a regular job.

As far as treatment through the courts, do you have any idea what a free court appointed rehab is like? Its a rundown building with folks just trying to stay out of jail, no real incentive to stay clean, and half ass services.

Lets not forget that many more ppl are killed over drugs than by drugs. Something like 43,000 dead by cartell violence alone in Mexico in the past 5 years or so [[rough estimates). Keeping drugs illegal keeps them on the street where the first hit is always free, produces jobs for kids who just wind up in the system and usually eventually in jail or prison when in prison they learn to become better criminals and make new connections.

How is this a tired argument, weve had 40 years of the drug war and its done nothing but damage while not making a dent in drugs coming into the US. This is a relatively new argument. It didnt work with booze and it wont/doesnt work with illegal drugs.

Your exactly the type of person im targeting when I constantly bring up this argument. When I started arguing legalization almost 10 years ago here on Dyes most ppl were against it, now most ppl seem to be for it. Im not taking credit but I feel Im at least trying to shine a light.

**gazhekwe** · July-25-11, 12:55 PM

Another stupid offshoot of the drug war, in the US we cannot grow hemp, which is a perfectly wonderful fiber useful in food, clothing, rope, and many other applications. We can import the products but not grow the resource to make our own products.

**Jimaz** · July-25-11, 01:13 PM

Originally Posted by gazhekwe

Another stupid offshoot of the drug war, in the US we cannot grow hemp, which is a perfectly wonderful fiber useful in food, clothing, rope, and many other applications. We can import the products but not grow the resource to make our own products.

How true. From Wikipedia's Hemp article:

Oilseed and fiber varieties of Cannabis approved for industrial hemp production produce only minute amounts of this psychoactive drug, not enough for any physical or psychological effects. Typically, hemp contains below 0.3% THC, while cultivars of Cannabis grown for marijuana can contain anywhere from 6 to over 20%.

It's like banning rubbing alcohol because of ethanol abuse.

Steve bennet · July-25-11, 02:09 PM

Try using the drug prohibitionists approach to the arguement in an ultra-conservative way back AGAINST them.
.
I want to say that people who support the "drug war" are responsible for keeping drugs illegal, which makes them more profitable, which creates the underground economy, which spawns powerful violent organization known as cartels who kill innocent people.

So if they blame a drug dealer for someone's death by overdose or their negative impact on a community, than logically they should blame pro-drug war people for the thousands of innocent people killed every year by the cartels or inner city turf wars, because these entities would not exist if the drugs were legal and controlled [[not to mention harder for children to get).

If you support the drug war, than you're responsible for innocent people dieing.

**Django** · July-25-11, 10:34 PM

Well put Steve.
On average the US has about 5000 OD deaths per year. Campare that to Deaths by shootings, turf wars, and just the waste of life by putting ppl in prison for life under mandatory minimum laws. The legal and advertised drugs are the biggest killers of all though, meaning smokes and booze. No drugs should be advertised. no Marlborol Man, no Bill Dee Williams with his Colt 45, definately no Joe Camel.

mjs, Im dyin for you to explain how this is a tired argument. I understand Portugal GDP is the lowest in the union and it was probably that way before they legalized, maybe you can prove me wrong.

We could also talk about all the opiates perscribed by doctors that kids get addicted to only to realize that they can get a better product on the street for a fraction of the price.

**barnesfoto** · July-26-11, 01:29 AM

Portugal is an ex-superpower. They made their fortune colonizing and pillaging other parts of the world, and now that colonialism is mostly dead, they are a poor [[but beautiful) country. A bit like Spain, but the Spanish were more ruthless in their raping and pillaging, and thus are a wealthier ex-superpower.
Spain also decriminalized use of pot and hash when I lived there in the 1980's, don't know if those laws are still in effect.

The GDP has nothing to do with how many of their citizens use drugs, and having lived in both places, I would propose that drug use is probably much higher in the USA.

lit joe · July-26-11, 12:14 PM

Originally Posted by Django

Well put Steve.
On average the US has about 5000 OD deaths per year. Campare that to Deaths by shootings, turf wars, and just the waste of life by putting ppl in prison for life under mandatory minimum laws. The legal and advertised drugs are the biggest killers of all though, meaning smokes and booze. No drugs should be advertised. no Marlborol Man, no Bill Dee Williams with his Colt 45, definately no Joe Camel.

mjs, Im dyin for you to explain how this is a tired argument. I understand Portugal GDP is the lowest in the union and it was probably that way before they legalized, maybe you can prove me wrong.

We could also talk about all the opiates perscribed by doctors that kids get addicted to only to realize that they can get a better product on the street for a fraction of the price.

Yes we can talk about opiates, I go to a pain clinic having a bad back. I'm prescrive 10/325 hydrocod tabs. I get treatments called hot shots, three needles on each side of the L section. A mix of steroids and cortizone. After the treatments I can go four to five days without the opiates. If theres a addiction why don't I have withdraw effects. I,ve done other so called addictive drugs not given by doctors with the same effects 0. So being addicted is only a weak mind that can't control its urges. The problem comes from within.

**Django** · July-27-11, 05:02 AM

Why would you have withdrawls if you go 4-5 days without opiates. Many ppl can use pain medication without getting addicted, many cannot. I guaranteee if you used daily you would go through withdrawls, add that to years of use while medicating pain and it wouldnt be so easy. Calling it a weak mind is pretty simplistic if you ask me, there are many other factors, many.