Detroit-Windsor Passenger Ferry

[Flintoid]

With all of the excitement surrounding this new port Downtown, the issue of a passenger ferry between Detroit and Windsor has been growing in prominence. I keep hearing about this viability study that is taking place to see if such a ferry would be sustainable and the Windsor Star reported that it should be ready by Labor Day. Does anyone have any info about this study or anything about how soon we could see passenger ferries on the Detroit River?

[Bham1982]

What does "sustainable" mean?

Almost all urban ferries in the U.S. are very heavily subsidized, even moreso than "regular" transit. So the issue is whether or not one supports a large number of taxpayer dollars going to a ferry.

[DetroitPlanner]

You mean like this ferry?

The boats are in process of being purchased though special funding from the FTA. Last I heard several routes were being discussed including Windsor, Downriver, and the Pointes.

[jsmyers]

$2,400 isn't going to buy a whole lot of boat. Is this due diligence or planning work?

[Infrastructure]

That is the cost in thousands. Add in local match and its $3.0M.

[401don]

Coming back from Detroit to Windsor Sunday our vehicle was pulled over for a "random" inspection. While there Customs was interviewing a solitary Japanese tourist who had come over on the tunnel bus. He spoke little English and they finally determined he was just sightseeing. A couple of guys joked about sightseeing in an empty downtown Windsor on a Sunday morning. I can picture him coming over all by himself on the ferry waiting to be greeted by the Canuck welcoming party.
Anyway, if you've watched how many virtually empty trips the tunnel bus makes every hour you know there's no market for this. It would be event driven and never justify the enormous cost.

[EastsideAl]

...and Customs officers acting that way [[it's much worse - and far more discourteous - on the American side) is one of the main reasons why it won't work. No one wants to be put through a nasty third-degree interrogation just for a little fun boat ride and day trip to the other side of our river.

[fryar]

I don't know. Obviously there are financial sustainability issues, for a lot of things. But the ferry makes for a far more picturesque trip to Windsor or downriver than a bus. It builds on an asset that's already there anyway [[the river), and has been underutilized. I welcome federal funding of 3/4 of the capital investment.

I'm not suggesting anyone hold their breath, but the customs issue is bound to change, sooner or later.

[davewindsor]

Anyway, if you've watched how many virtually empty trips the tunnel bus makes every hour you know there's no market for this. It would be event driven and never justify the enormous cost.

I agree that the Tunnel Bus is probably a money loser with the few passengers I've seen on there, but you are assuming that the ferry study is only looking at moving people like the Tunnel Bus and would not consider other options like moving cars in addition to people.

The Bob-Lo Island ferry moves up to 16 cars as well as people every 20 minutes to an island with a couple dozen houses, some condos and a restaurant. http://www.boblo.ca/pages/living/ferry.html from the town of Amherstberg. Windsor is 10X the size of Amherstberg. So why wouldn't a ferry that can also move cars from say Coventry Park Gardens in Windsor to Belle Isle work? If it's moving cars as well, there may be a market for it.

[laphoque]

The Tunnel Bus would be substantially more useful if they allowed bikes on as a matter of policy.

[j to the jeremy]

The Tunnel Bus would be substantially more useful if they allowed bikes on as a matter of policy.

Or if WSU students knew it existed.

[BrushStart]

^^^ This is correct. Very few people I've met even know about the Tunnel Bus or how it works. In fact, I just learned about the Tunnel Bus not too long ago and have already used it. It really is a great service that more people should take advantage of.

Secondly, the economic viability of the Tunnel Bus does not turn completely on ridership numbers. It is more accurately gauged by the amount of economic activity it generates. If the bus carries at least 5 people to Windsor per hour [[which it does), and 3 out of 5 spend money eating, drinking, gambling, or shopping, then Windsor gets an economic benefit. I believe that is the true point of the Tunnel Bus service.

In regards to a ferry, I think far more people would use it than a bus. It would be more visible and people would much prefer that experience than learning the bus routes/schedules. Think of all the tourists and visitors that come to the Riverwalk daily. Probably several hundred with sometimes thousands on weekends. We've also got shore excursions taking place now at the Detroit Port. I think these people would be very inclined to jump on the ferry and head to Windsor for the afternoon and visa-versa.

I would definitely use the ferry, perhaps even 2-4 times per month. People who live in Windsor and work downtown would also use it and visa-versa. Anything that creates more commerce between Detroit and Windsor is great. Also, I think Windsor would be inclined to subsidize the ferry service, as their local economy relies on tourism coming from Detroit. Perhaps they could scale back the Tunnel Bus to just picking up at Mariner's Church or Rosa Park and allocate the leftover funds to operating a ferry service. I am very excited about the prospect of this!

[professorscott]

We already have ferries to Canada, in St. Clair County from Marine City to Sombra, ON and from Algonac to Bkejwanong [[Walpole Island). They run about 16 hours a day, all year long except when there are ice jams in late winter and early spring. They are private, for-profit businesses, although of course the governments support them indirectly by the provision of customs houses.

The Marine City ferry, for instance, costs $6 one-way for a car or $2 round-trip for a pedestrian. Lowell Dalgety, the owner, has two ferries, and on weekend days in the summer they both operate; most of the year only the larger one is running.

So I have no doubt a Detroit to Windsor ferry could be viable, although I think the river in downtown Detroit is quite a bit wider than the St. Clair River at either Marine City or Algonac, so the trip would take longer. But I use them all the time and I love 'em.

[Islandman]

I don't know. One of my friends used the Tunnel Bus to come over on Sunday during DEMF. I sat waiting out side of Mariner's for her. Her bus sat there for an hour and a half before U.S. Customs got to it. There was no reason for it. At one point, 3 Tunnel buses were queued up.

Face it, until U.S Customs stops treating people like angry DMV/Sec of State workers, even via boat I would have to just say no.

[Jowlska]

I agree that the tunnel bus would be better if it carried bicycles across the border. I rode the tunnel bus for the first time in May. I picked up the bus at rosa parks tc and rode it to casino windsor / riverfront park. The bus took about 45 minutes to pick me up at rosa parks, but was faster on the return to Detroit. Transit Windsor's busses are newer and cleaner than DDOT's and they have air conditioning! The tunnel bus drivers were helpful answering my questions and apologized for the delay in service. It's $3.75 each way and the bus takes both US and Canadian money. The customs going into Canada lasted only a few minutes but on the return trip, the American customs people seem angry and ask more questions. It seems like there are way more Canadians that use the bus than Americans, but I think most tourist type Americans would find a boat ride more of a pleasurable experience than riding a bus and would be more likely to ride the boat.

[Ray1936]

There used to be Detroit/Windsor ferry boats before the tunnel and bridge. Here's a photo c. 1924 of my grandmother, her sister, and my aunt Dana on the D&W ferry, "Promise".

[EastsideAl]

What a great picture Ray. I especially love that expression on Aunt Dana's face.

[BrushStart]

Today: Fiacano wants to sever off Wayne County Port Authority. Pretty ironic considering he showed up for the ribbon cutting ceremony at the new dock last week.

The pool is one of several proposed cuts in Ficano's $538 million budget for the fiscal year that starts Oct. 1.
Others include:
Ending a $240,000 subsidy to the Detroit/Wayne County Port Authority, a move that came as a surprise since Ficano attended Monday's $22 million opening of the new terminal.
"It's a little like going to a wedding and the groom tells you he loves you, but he doesn't show up the next day," said Arthur Blackwell II, the authority's chairman. "It would seem hypocritical."
"But we are going to give him the benefit of the doubt. We think it's an oversight."
Brooke Blackwell called it a "tentative cut" because the state Legislature needs to alter state law to allow the authority to exist even though Detroit has dropped below 750,000 residents.

From The Detroit News: http://detnews.com/article/20110720/...#ixzz1SemxZDmN

[bartock]

You are really taking this out of context, Brush. The rest of that portion of the article quotes Arthur Blackwell's belief that it is an oversight, and Ficano's own spokesperson, Brooke Blackwell, stated that it was a "tentative cut" because the state legislature has to change the laws in order to allow the Authority to exist due to the fact that Detroit has dipped below 750,000 residents.

I mean, c'mon, if there is something to complain about Ficano's proposed budget, it would be the cutting of funding to the water park at the normally Wild West that is Chandler Park. It is located in an area of Detroit that serves a hell of a lot more children than downtown does, and the water park is actually a positive thing.

[BrushStart]

You are really taking this out of context, Brush. The rest of that portion of the article quotes Arthur Blackwell's belief that it is an oversight, and Ficano's own spokesperson, Brooke Blackwell, stated that it was a "tentative cut" because the state legislature has to change the laws in order to allow the Authority to exist due to the fact that Detroit has dipped below 750,000 residents.

I mean, c'mon, if there is something to complain about Ficano's proposed budget, it would be the cutting of funding to the water park at the normally Wild West that is Chandler Park. It is located in an area of Detroit that serves a hell of a lot more children than downtown does, and the water park is actually a positive thing.

Sorry, didn't mean to make it look out of context. Anyways, I hope you're right. It would be awfully peculiar if the money never made it back in the budget.

Also, I'm not suggesting anything about the funding for Chandler Park. I've never been so I don't know what it looks like or how many people use it. I simply found the stuff about funding for the Port Authority buried in the article about the water park.

[Whitehouse]

You should get something like this.


The ferry between the cities of Dordrecht and Rotterdam. erasmus bridge in the background.

[Ray1936]

What a great picture Ray. I especially love that expression on Aunt Dana's face.

She was a sweetheart all her life. Dana passed away ten years ago in Indianapolis. We corresponded regularly right up until her death. She had but one son, who turned out to be a dipshit, but that's for another forum.........

[FlyingJ]

...and Customs officers acting that way [[it's much worse - and far more discourteous - on the American side) is one of the main reasons why it won't work. No one wants to be put through a nasty third-degree interrogation just for a little fun boat ride and day trip to the other side of our river.

Yeah, no joke. As a Canadian on my mom's side the treatment by the Ontario Children's Choir masquerading as Windsor Border Guards on my last trip to Toronto turned me off. They were suspicious that I didn't have my Via Rail ticket from Toronto back to Windsor yet. One girl wanted to know why I was crossing the border and didn't "just fly in to Pearson like everybody else".

[Wesley Mouch]

Yeah, no joke. As a Canadian on my mom's side the treatment by the Ontario Children's Choir masquerading as Windsor Border Guards on my last trip to Toronto turned me off. They were suspicious that I didn't have my Via Rail ticket from Toronto back to Windsor yet. One girl wanted to know why I was crossing the border and didn't "just fly in to Pearson like everybody else".

Without eliminating the possibility that you just ran into a fairly dim public servant, its just possible that asking such odd questions does a pretty good job of finding out if you're dealing with a normal person, or someone what's trying to hide something, gets nervous, and starts speaking Bosnian. When I'm asked odd questions, I answer them. And they get bored rather quickly and I'm on my way.

[Embee]

On an average day the tunnel bus might lose money but it is absolutely packed whenever the Tigers or Red Wings have a game. They often have to bring in extra buses on those dates to handle the overflow.