How to find out about local swim laws, Belle Isle.

**Django** · July-17-11, 11:16 PM

Ive had the DPD tell me that it is illegal to swim in any part of Detroit except for Belle Isle Beach. I would like to look up how this works. B.I. has many small swim holes but its not until someone drowns that the Police will start writing tickets or at least start writing MORE tickets than normal. Im having a hard time believing that there is a law forbidding swimming anywhere but the B.I. Beach. Do they even have lifeguards there?

**SWMAP** · July-18-11, 06:17 AM

I imagine that there is a legal description of the park that describes the space and boundaries and any public beaches. The designated public access place would be posted . Other than those, there would be no public beaches in the park that the City owns & described. Plenty of public beaches don't have lifeguards on duty. There is usually a posting about that, as well.

**mwilbert** · July-18-11, 06:25 AM

I haven't been there this year, but in the past few years there were lifeguards at Belle Isle beach.

**bailey** · July-18-11, 07:20 AM

Originally Posted by Django

Ive had the DPD tell me that it is illegal to swim in any part of Detroit except for Belle Isle Beach. I would like to look up how this works. B.I. has many small swim holes but its not until someone drowns that the Police will start writing tickets or at least start writing MORE tickets than normal. Im having a hard time believing that there is a law forbidding swimming anywhere but the B.I. Beach. Do they even have lifeguards there?

What is the problem with just swimming at the beach?

**ndavies** · July-18-11, 08:35 AM

Detroit Municipal codes are online:
http://www.municode.com/library/clie...?clientID=1930

All the cities laws are there. A quick seacrh for swimming reveals:

Sec. 23-2-2. - Swimming and underwater diving; prohibitions.

[[a)

A person shall not swim, bathe, or engage in underwater diving operations outside of buoyed and designated swim areas, except when authorized by the city police department harbormaster.

[[b)

This section does not preclude bona fide commercial salvage diving operations, and emergency and recovery operations by any law enforcement agency.

And since the only bouy marked area in the entire city is the beach on Belle Isle that pretty much covers it.

**SWMAP** · July-18-11, 08:58 AM

Once I was on a boat and we dropped anchor in the Detroit River somewhere east of Belle Isle. We were really unschooled in the dangers of the currents there. I jumped in to swim [[and I was a very good swimmer) and after awhile I realized thatIi might not make it back to the boat as the current had pulled the boat around on its anchor and it was exponentially farther from me than when I had jumped in. I was plenty scared and just made it to a ring that had been tossed.

My point for Django is that you may be a great swimmer and the little swimming holes attract you. These areas aren't designated for a reason, i would guess. Maybe too close to the current, etc. However, other people may be attracted by your use and they may not be experienced, and those people who you have led by example to possibly dangerous FOR THEM areas may be hurt.

I know that you have written that the public beach is a "dirty diaper" beach and I believe you. I hate how people change their babies and throw the diapers in parking lots, under seats at the movies - every where. I spent years cleaning my alley of diapers when we had those big common dumpters because people would just walk out and toss the diapers in or near the dumpsters.

Maybe someday paper diapers will be banned like cigarettes.

**ScienceFair** · July-18-11, 11:31 AM

Windsor has a couple of nice beaches, I'm not an avid outdoor swimmer, but I do recommend checking it out.

**EastsideAl** · July-18-11, 02:16 PM

As someone who grew up near the river and used to go swimming in it [[illegally) off of parks and vacant lots south of Jefferson, I can tell you that the currents in the river can be very dangerous for the unprepared or those who venture a little too far out into the water. Even pretty good and confident swimmers can suddenly find themselves in trouble and unable to get safely back to shore. All it takes is one little mistake and you're done - the river is unforgiving.

More than one kid I knew drowned back in those days and the police eventually cracked down on the swimming and stopped us. But even back then [[1960s) swimming was not legally allowed anywhere in the city but Belle Isle beach, which is in a bit of a cove and therefore protected from the worst of the current.

I cringe every time I see people, and especially kids, swimming elsewhere on the island or in other parts of the city, because I know all too well what can happen.

**laphoque** · July-18-11, 02:50 PM

If you've ever swum in the ocean, you'll have most likely notice signs warning of rip tide. Is the current worse than rip tide? Is it similar in nature? I've only experienced the slight current that makes Hipster beach akin to an endless pool. I've heard in the main river it's stronger. Can anyone speak to this?

Could the city post similar notices about the current and have a similar experience to the costal beaches which do not have life guards?

Occasional crack downs there are a waste of police resources that can have only marginal effect.

**Johnnny5** · July-18-11, 04:31 PM

Originally Posted by laphoque

If you've ever swum in the ocean, you'll have most likely notice signs warning of rip tide. Is the current worse than rip tide? Is it similar in nature? I've only experienced the slight current that makes Hipster beach akin to an endless pool. I've heard in the main river it's stronger. Can anyone speak to this?

Could the city post similar notices about the current and have a similar experience to the costal beaches which do not have life guards?

Occasional crack downs there are a waste of police resources that can have only marginal effect.

The currents in the Detroit River can be very strong, but in most areas they will not pull you away from shore like a rip tide does. That being said, in most places they are much too strong to swim against and that's probably where people run into trouble. Instead of swimming with the current and back towards shore, they wear themselves out fighting the current until they can no longer stay afloat.

**rajdet** · July-18-11, 05:53 PM

The place where people are being ticketed, and that poor guy drowned a few weeks ago, has very little current and except the middle of the stream, is not very deep. I usually swim or kayak though there every day weather permitting, until this recent crackdown. It is a great and usually safe place to swim. The only issues are the occasional jetski that goes through full throttle, or the person who decides to swim after a few too many beers. As for the young man who drowned there, he most likely could not swim and or panicked after he was in over his head.
We are fortunate to live surrounded by 70% of the planets fresh water, and on days like today, mid 90's temps. and high humidity it's kinda' hard not to go out for a swim somewhere. People, PLEASE teach your kids to swim!

**Gistok** · July-18-11, 05:59 PM

Spot on Johnny5.... and it's not just the currents, but also the water levels... in some places [[outside of the shippling lanes) the water can be between 3-40 ft. deep. Scott Middle Ground is such a place between Belle Isle and the Detroit mainland where water levels can go from 30 ft. deep by land, to 5 ft. deep in the middle of the channel, back to 27 ft. deep nearer the island, and then 4 ft. deep near the beach.

It's the uneven water bottom plus the constant water current that makes for some very bad swimming in almost all of the river. I bet that the number of people who have drowned in the Detroit River since 1701 has numbered well over a thousand....

DetroitPole · July-18-11, 06:45 PM

Originally Posted by ScienceFair

Windsor has a couple of nice beaches, I'm not an avid outdoor swimmer, but I do recommend checking it out.

After waiting 3 hours each way on the impenetrable Detroit-Windsor border to get cavity searched? Imagine telling the jack-boots you're going swimming! You'll be drawn and quartered. Surrounded by water and no place to swim. Detroit is really some kind of horrible, waking-nightmare dystopia.

**Crystal** · July-18-11, 07:21 PM

Don't forget about our friend, Mr. E. coli. You don't want to swim where there could be high levels of bacteria.

**Jimaz** · July-18-11, 07:26 PM

I suppose home-made submarines are out of the question?

lilpup · July-18-11, 08:06 PM

From what I've read and been told the usual free-stream current in the river is around 4 knots [[a strong swimmer can swim about 1 knot). As with all fluid flows, currents are usually weaker near shore so the conditions can be deceiving. In a lake people think nothing of swimming as far out as they can - in the river that's a huge mistake and most swimmers aren't even aware of the danger.

**Django** · July-21-11, 10:54 PM

Im all for warnings and signs explaining the current situation [[pun intended) I just have a hard time in obeying laws which tell me I can do what ppl have been doing since Adam and Eve took their first skinny dip.

The area I swim has virtually no current. Ive swam in a few different areas of the river and never felt any kind of current like I have on the Atlantic swim beaches, but its okay to swim there.

If you cant swim you shouldnt be swimming, just common sense. Im sick of rights being taken away because some lawyer might see a case against the city after someone drowns in water.

My theory on the kid drowning is that he got tangled in the seaweed and panicked. The seaweed this year has already reached the top of the water and is now creeping and growing along the surface. Where he drown does not have much of a current. A lot of ppl get really freaked out when they come into some seaweed while swimming. Just a theory.