U.S.-Canada border could get security upgrades

**BrushStart** · July-15-11, 09:18 AM

http://www.detnews.com/article/20110...urity-upgrades

Look, I'm all hip to keeping illegals and terrorists out, but any more security at the Detroit-Windsor crossing and it might as well be an impregnable wall. Seriously, 99.999% of the people who travel between Detroit and Windsor are engaged in legitimate activities, i.e. work, school, entertainment, vacationing, etc.

My girlfriend and I recently got Enhanced Drivers Licenses, which double as passports to Canada, Mexico and the Caribbean nations. We have been taking the Tunnel Bus across to Windsor so we can go to dinner and have a few drinks at some different places. Sometimes we'll stop off at the casino.

Personally, I've always thought of Windsor as a borough of Detroit, sort of like the relationship between Brooklyn and Manhattan. But, I must say that the intensity of crossing the border is a real turn off. I understand that they need to be careful who they let in/out, but sometimes the intense questioning is ridiculous. Going in, they want to know what restaurant we'll be eating at, what cab company we're using, what streets we'll be walking down, how many hours we plan to stay, etc, etc... Hell, I don't know the answers to all those questions! I don't plan my Friday evenings with military-like precision. Coming back, it's the same thing, and I've even seen a few people be detained for actual interrogation.

It's intimidating, that even as a born U.S. citizen, I am worried about being held up for hours, or worse yet, wrongfully accused of something coming home from an innocent night on the town. It's a real deterrent to spending time/money in Windsor. I was quite surprised how quiet it was over there recently compared to years past. The security levels at the border must be putting a damper on travel and commerce. Maybe it's needed. I don't know. I just hope they are reasonable. The economic and cultural relationship between Detroit and Windsor is so important and I'd hate to see it get all messed up because of unnecessary, heavy-handed measures.

Anyone have additional experiences, good or bad?

**Bigb23** · July-15-11, 09:39 AM

My trips to our friendly neighbor to the North were over post 9-11. To read about the hassles at the border just turned me off. But to hear about this massive build up by the Feds while local community police forces are cut to the bone just boggles the mind.
Besides, if somebody really wants to cross the border, don't they just swim or boat across? I'm sure they had massive border crossing security during prohibition too, but look what happened.

**Detroitnerd** · July-15-11, 10:47 AM

This is the feds trying to get us used to the new Soviet States of America.

**ghettopalmetto** · July-15-11, 11:28 AM

Originally Posted by BrushStart

Personally, I've always thought of Windsor as a borough of Detroit, sort of like the relationship between Brooklyn and Manhattan. But, I must say that the intensity of crossing the border is a real turn off. I understand that they need to be careful who they let in/out, but sometimes the intense questioning is ridiculous. Going in, they want to know what restaurant we'll be eating at, what cab company we're using, what streets we'll be walking down, how many hours we plan to stay, etc, etc... Hell, I don't know the answers to all those questions! I don't plan my Friday evenings with military-like precision. Coming back, it's the same thing, and I've even seen a few people be detained for actual interrogation.

I never understood the intense level of scrutiny, either, even before 9/11/01. It makes even less sense when you're crossing a land border, and the tags on your car are from a U.S. state [[or Canadian province). Now that a passport is essentially required to cross the U.S./Canadian border, the interrogation is even more dumbfounding.

When I went to Europe last year, all I had to do at immigration was hand over my passport to the officer. He looked at the passport, looked at me, and stamped the book. No litany of questions regarding the purpose of my visit. No interrogation concerning the length of my stay, or where I would be going. Nothing. It really makes you wonder how paranoid we've become along the "longest undefended border in the world".

**jcole** · July-15-11, 11:33 AM

I cross into Canada at the Port Huron/Sarnia crossing and have never had a problem. They are polite, friendly and obliging. Then again, so am I, so maybe that helps.

**Detroitnerd** · July-15-11, 11:37 AM

Originally Posted by jcole

I cross into Canada at the Port Huron/Sarnia crossing and have never had a problem. They are polite, friendly and obliging. Then again, so am I, so maybe that helps.

You mean they are polite, friendly and obliging when you cross into the United States? The Canadians are always great. It's the Americans who are knuckleheads.

**jcole** · July-15-11, 02:06 PM

No, I mean both ways. The American side is just as nice as the Canadian side, and somewhat more friendly, as a matter of fact. They will usually pass the time of day with us.

**Gistok** · July-15-11, 02:26 PM

Well the dozens of crossings via Detroit-Windsor and back before 9-11 have been 50-50.... half pleasant, half "Checkpoint Charlie".... I too have had pleasant crossings at Sarnia... unfortunately going via Sarnia is not the best way to get to Windsor...

**Tig3rzhark** · July-15-11, 02:52 PM

The last time I went to Windsor, their dollar = $1.50 to our dollar.

I got more for our money then and had a good time, going to the casino, going to clubs and hanging out with a few friends.

My only pet-peeve was that if I wanted to ride my bike, I would have to get someone to drive me across and put my bike in the trunk, since the tunnel bus wouldn't allow me to use their bike racks for my bike.

When I did catch the tunnel bus, we always had to stop in a room and be questioned each way before going our way. It was like going to the county jail almost.

Yeah, I haven't been across lately, but I'd like to go back and establish a bank account there, since their currency is worth more than ours now. I'm sure that if I go back there again, I could meet some new friends as well.

However, it would be nice to make it easier to get my bike across the river.

**rjk** · July-15-11, 04:47 PM

I haven't been over since 9/11. We use to go over to Canada 2-3 times a month including a monthly Saturday run with a group of fellow runners.
It just sounds like too much of a hazzle for what's over there. It's nice in Windsor, but it's just not worth the trouble.

Pre 9/11 we always seemed to have a bigger problem with the Canadian guards than the US side if we had any problems. The majority were very nice and professional, but every now and then we'd run into a jerk.

The worst was when a guard probably in his mid 20's was with a female who was also in her mid 20's. It looked like he might have been training her. I even mentioned to my buddy as we pulled up that we could be in trouble. Sure enough, this guy was putting on a show for cutie-pie and we were the props for his macho display.

It always seemed like the Canadian side had much younger people manning the booths.

**BrushStart** · July-15-11, 04:57 PM

Originally Posted by Tig3rzhark

However, it would be nice to make it easier to get my bike across the river.

Yeah, I am a huge proponent of a Detroit-Windsor ferry. I think it would generate a lot of economic benefit. I hope one day there will be complete fluidity of movement between the two cities. If you had a free-flowing border, Detroit and Windsor would really seem like one contiguous urban metropolis. Someday, I'd really love to see an urban rail connection, via either bridge or tunnel.

**Wingnatic** · July-16-11, 07:39 AM

I went to an annual Canada Day/July 4th BBQ in Chatham via Algonac/Walpole Island and they did have heightened security because of a threat that Bin Laden said before our Navy Seals took him out that he wanted to do something around the holiday or the anniversary of 9/11 . I saw U.S. Customs rifling through what looked like an 80 year old couples car coming back to the U.S. in Algonac , they didn't seem to mind , most likely they were glad someone is watching the border keeping us safe . I don't think its a requirement to become a U.S. Customs agent is to go to charm school , they have no idea who we are . Keep in mind that we are 2 different Nations and if we become lax in our security , there are people who will take advantage of that . I agree that Canadian Customs people are more cordial , I always seem to cross over when an oletimer is working and knows me , some of them now carry weapons , most don't and they should . Also keep in mind that we are one of only a few States to have the enhanced driver's license because of our history of crossing back and forth to visit , shop , family and friends etc .

**Roq** · July-16-11, 08:16 AM

Originally Posted by Detroitnerd

You mean they are polite, friendly and obliging when you cross into the United States? The Canadians are always great. It's the Americans who are knuckleheads.

Not in my experience. Travelling to T.O. a while ago with my mom [[who has re-married), I got asked this by the Canadian guard: "If she is your mother, why does she have a different last name?" Who knew that the border crossing apparently doubles as a time machine back to 1950 as well.

I get stupid questions from both sides which has resulted in me only going to Canada if I have to for work related reasons.

**Lowell** · July-16-11, 09:40 AM

The sad part of this is that if we lived in France or Germany, two countries that murdered millions of each others youth in the last century, this would not even be a issue. We would just drive over and go on with our business with no intrusion into our personal lives. But I guess we cannot trust a country with whom each of us have been at peace for nearly two centuries and with whom we are currently allies in war.

These ridiculous and tightening restrictions of movement are costing our international city hundreds of millions in lost and wasted revenue each year and our countries further billions in meaningless and ineffective security costs. Removal of border security via a European Union style treaty would provide a tremendous economic boost to our border cities, save our countries much and increase overall security.

Mr. Obama, Mr. Harper, Tear Down that Wall.

**Zacha341** · July-16-11, 10:07 AM

I gotten the 'twenty-questions' to going over [[bridge or tunnel) too even after I show my passport etc. I think they want to see how easily you will answer some basic questions or maybe they are just being nosey [[smile)....

Originally Posted by Roq

Not in my experience. Travelling to T.O. a while ago with my mom [[who has re-married), I got asked this by the Canadian guard: "If she is your mother, why does she have a different last name?" Who knew that the border crossing apparently doubles as a time machine back to 1950 as well.

I get stupid questions from both sides which has resulted in me only going to Canada if I have to for work related reasons.

**Zacha341** · July-16-11, 10:10 AM

I purchased my passport about 4 years ago being bound and determined not to be so close to another country yet not able to visit. Yeah, I've been hassled a bit. Once I got jammed up due to my car being rather cluttered and overstuffed in the trunk and they told me to not come back until I 'clean' out my car... after they pulled me over to the detainment area and looked thru it a bit. They were nice, but it was still very annoying. I did clean out the car though [[smile)....

Originally Posted by rjk

I haven't been over since 9/11. We use to go over to Canada 2-3 times a month including a monthly Saturday run with a group of fellow runners.
It just sounds like too much of a hazzle for what's over there. It's nice in Windsor, but it's just not worth the trouble.

Pre 9/11 we always seemed to have a bigger problem with the Canadian guards than the US side if we had any problems. The majority were very nice and professional, but every now and then we'd run into a jerk.

The worst was when a guard probably in his mid 20's was with a female who was also in her mid 20's. It looked like he might have been training her. I even mentioned to my buddy as we pulled up that we could be in trouble. Sure enough, this guy was putting on a show for cutie-pie and we were the props for his macho display.

It always seemed like the Canadian side had much younger people manning the booths.

muskie1 · July-16-11, 11:07 AM

I think much of the money will be spent in areas other than the official border crossings. I house sat last weekend for someone who lives on the river in Wyandotte and they told me there often is border patrol activity up and down the river. I did witness a helicopter flying low and it looked like it was blacked out at about two a.m. as well as low passes by a fixed wing plane.

The concern, I would imagine, is targeted more at non-secure crossing areas vs. the existing official crossings.

**j to the jeremy** · July-17-11, 08:27 AM

I've been hassled almost every time I cross, and I have been polite, easygoing, etc.

The Canadians always seem relaxed, but the last 2 times i re-entered through the tunnel the US seemed to think i was some sort of drug smuggler.

I've been detained with no explanation for hours and then let go with little-to no questioning besides small talk.

Still, the worst was coming back from Europe, when the US government employee at DTW asked us if we'd heard any "nasty stuff about America" from the "illegals over there". "You know, stuff about Iran, people who don't like us.." This was at the height of the Bush years, though...

My main concern is that we appear to be doing retina scans of every non-citizen who enters our borders. If that's not Orwellian, I dont know what is. Isn't a RFID chip in everyone's Passport enough?

I agree with Lowell. The missed economic and diplomatic opportunity for Detroit and northern cities is harming us just as much as the racist mentality in Texas is. Countries wall themselves in when their elites feel insecure and want to hold power for as long as possible.