A call for assistance. Researching available retail locations.

**Jpsaverino** · July-10-11, 02:26 PM

Hey gang.

Several business partners and I are currently in the planning and financing stages of opening an upscale grocer in the downtown central business district. While I must refrain from discussing most aspects of our business plans, I am very interested in hearing any and all input, insight, opinions and tips from the forum.

Our goal is to attract business from the commuting business professionals working downtown.

One of our struggles is in location scouting. To be quite frank, companies have been less than great in returning emails and phone calls about specific locations and their specs. Some ownership info is wrong. Some phone numbers on windows are simply disconnected. If anyone has an idea for a great location in the CBD feel free to offer it up. Our target is 10,000 sq/ft but we're flexible between 8k and 12k sq/ft

Thank you in advance,

Jared

**stromberg2** · July-10-11, 03:41 PM

You could check out the Himmeloch Building on Woodward near the David Whitney Building.

Stromberg2

**rencense** · July-10-11, 04:10 PM

LOL a grocer in the city; upscale no less. there are no grocery stores in detroit, haven't your read a new article the last few years?!

</jokes>

My only concern with what you stated so far is mentioning marketing to commuting workers. I've heard this mentioned before such as with the new lafayette foods. Now there's nothing wrong with gaining their business but you have to consider if its enough. I mean i can't imagine a suburbanite doing a lot of grocery shopping on their lunch break [[esp in summer if you have to keep it fresh til you get home) People might stop by on their way home but the question is how many.

I'd suggest marketing heavily to downtown residents. Downtown is growing and will get bigger when more buildings are online. There are lots of residents downtown who want a taste of the good life and will be happy to have a high end grocery. A lot of yuppies [[and yuppies in training) want to live in a downtown but still have a whole foods-type place handy. Keep marketing and keep your customers happy and im confident you'll succeed.

good luck!

**davewindsor** · July-10-11, 08:53 PM

Originally Posted by Jpsaverino

Hey gang.

Several business partners and I are currently in the planning and financing stages of opening an upscale grocer in the downtown central business district. While I must refrain from discussing most aspects of our business plans, I am very interested in hearing any and all input, insight, opinions and tips from the forum.

Our goal is to attract business from the commuting business professionals working downtown.

One of our struggles is in location scouting. To be quite frank, companies have been less than great in returning emails and phone calls about specific locations and their specs. Some ownership info is wrong. Some phone numbers on windows are simply disconnected. If anyone has an idea for a great location in the CBD feel free to offer it up. Our target is 10,000 sq/ft but we're flexible between 8k and 12k sq/ft

Thank you in advance,

Jared

Just a thought.

I remember reading an article in Model D about the Detroit Economic Growth Corp launching a Fresh Food Access Initiative [[FFAI) to get grocers in downtown. http://www.modeldmedia.com/devnews/D...ing033010.aspx

I also remember reading an article that said that construction costs for building a grocery store in North America is $85 a square foot. http://www.verisae.com/page/1/solutions.jsp

Perhaps you can contact the DEGC about getting the city to give you a free parking lot in exchange for having a local developer build a grocery store with you signing a long term lease for $10-$12 a square foot? Maybe they'd even give you the former Statler site, Hudson's site or Lafayette site since they haven't been able to get anyone else to build anything on it.

**gnome** · July-10-11, 09:08 PM

You will lose all of your money, all of your investors' money, all of your Dad's pension if you plan on basing your business on commuting office folks. That is not just a bad plan, it is a plan so bad it defines bad.

Just getting folks out of their cubes at lunchtime is hard enough; now you are expecting them to leave their office, drive to your location, pay to park again, then either re-warm or re-cool their car just so they can drive past 3 of your suburban competitors on their way home.

You think this up before or after the splif was burned? Let me guess, ... after, right?

**Downtown Lady** · July-12-11, 08:48 AM

Hey Jpsaverino -- don't let the negativity discourage you!

There are some zwerg-like people here who would rather piss in your soup than suggest how to adjust the seasonings.

**EL Jimbo** · July-12-11, 08:58 AM

Wow...I mean, I know it's not the best business plan, but did you really have to be a jerk there, gnome?

In regards to the issue of catering to commuters or even to downtown residents, what about offering a delivery service or some form of holding area for people to pick up their groceries later.

For downtown residents, the fact that most would want to walk to the store and back puts a limit on the number of items purchased at one time. However, if they could purchase items and then schedule a time to deliver it to their home that might be a marketable service.

For commuters, perhaps something could be arranged where the worker purchases items on their lunch break and then picks them up at 5 pm so they don't have to worry about the heating/cooling issues of a car.

I'm sure there is some reason why either one or both of these services are neither feasible or profitable, but hey this is a message board so what's wrong with a little brainstorming?

**corktownyuppie** · July-12-11, 09:05 AM

I'm as much a downtown booster as any, so I hope you have a really, really, really solid plan. Retail is challenging here, and I would suggest you really get to know the target market. Commuting professionals will likely be a tough sell, unless your goal is to provide them a convenient place to park PLUS a reason to shop there vs. going back to the Meijer in the suburbs.

IMHO, convenience isn't enough of a game changer. If my grocery bill went down by 20% then I'd think about changing my habitual behavior, but otherwise this is tough.

I'm sure you're already doing this, but if you haven't, talk to the experienced retailers in town to make sure your business model is workable.

I think Michigan Ave. might have some really good locations, plus you'd get the more sustainable traffic from the Corktown Residents. And it would be only a few minutes from downtown. I can put you in touch with the realtors here if you want. If you really, really want downtown, I'm thinking Woodward just north of I-75 but before midtown is still a developing area and might be able to draw both the college kids and the downtown commuters if it's close enough to the highway.

Location is everything here, and the fact that you're asking us for hints does not bode well. Speak with a very experienced commercial real estate agent [[or two) before going forward. Good luck!

**mwilbert** · July-12-11, 09:06 AM

Just getting folks out of their cubes at lunchtime is hard enough; now you are expecting them to leave their office, drive to your location, pay to park again, then either re-warm or re-cool their car just so they can drive past 3 of your suburban competitors on their way home.

If that is the business model, I agree it is hopeless. However, the post didn't say anything about getting them to drive to the store on their lunch hour. I see lots of people outside at lunchtime, so it is probably feasible to get people to walk to a grocery store for a snack or to pick up some specific thing they might need, and it is feasible to get them to stop on their way home--depending upon how they get home it might be the most convenient.

Whether the number of people who would actually do that is sufficient to support a business, I have my doubts, but that is what market research is for.

**bailey** · July-12-11, 09:08 AM

Originally Posted by EL Jimbo

Wow...I mean, I know it's not the best business plan, but did you really have to be a jerk there, gnome?
....
I'm sure there is some reason why either one or both of these services are neither feasible or profitable, but hey this is a message board so what's wrong with a little brainstorming?

Oh I don't know if he was that out of line. Go resurrect the various Zaccarros threads and I'd bet there were equally as blunt assessments/criticisms about the likelihood of that "upscale grocer" succeeding based on what the owners described of their plan and what they envisioned versus the reality of Detroit as experienced by the residents day in and day out.

How long did they last? 6 months? IIRC there are still various lawsuits pending and several hundred thousand of debt to be resolved.

So, to the OP... I'd suggest reading up on Zacarros and doing pretty much the opposite of everything they did.

**Lowell** · July-12-11, 09:09 AM

IMO, the westside of downtown would be my area of interest -- along Michigan Avenue, say around the Lager House / Nemo's locations. It contains the stable Corktown area and other than the Trumbull market seems under-served and yet will have some parking options. Closer in, there might be some consideration of part of the former MGM casino, again with parking and a walkway to Corktown. The eastside has Eastern Market, Lafayette Foods and Harbortown Market. Not saying they couldn't do with more, just that the westside is more bereft.

My second area interest would be the growing Woodward corridor between downtown an the art center. However I suspect that it would be pricier in terms of rent and offer less of the dreaded but still necessary parking. The famously failed Zaccaro's Market still seems like a good location, but maybe not yet.

**DetroitPlanner** · July-12-11, 01:09 PM

Do you really want to have a lot of investors/partners in a low-margin business such as groceries? The need to make a profit right away will be imparative and the revenues many not cover the expenditures for quite some time.

That being said I would look for the space where you can get it the cheapest and closest to the market which you will serve. Will you require parking?

**gthomas** · July-12-11, 03:58 PM

There's a lot of JERKS on here, I might delete my account. Tired of the negative comments..Keep doing what you do, don't stop. One day you will hire one of those JERKS. Good luck on your business venture. I will support you regardless..

Originally Posted by EL Jimbo

Wow...I mean, I know it's not the best business plan, but did you really have to be a jerk there, gnome?

In regards to the issue of catering to commuters or even to downtown residents, what about offering a delivery service or some form of holding area for people to pick up their groceries later.

For downtown residents, the fact that most would want to walk to the store and back puts a limit on the number of items purchased at one time. However, if they could purchase items and then schedule a time to deliver it to their home that might be a marketable service.

For commuters, perhaps something could be arranged where the worker purchases items on their lunch break and then picks them up at 5 pm so they don't have to worry about the heating/cooling issues of a car.

I'm sure there is some reason why either one or both of these services are neither feasible or profitable, but hey this is a message board so what's wrong with a little brainstorming?

**innercitydoc** · July-12-11, 05:12 PM

Originally Posted by Lowell

The famously failed Zaccaro's Market still seems like a good location, but maybe not yet.

The Zaccaro's location is already been taken by The Ye Olde Butcher Shoppe who have vowed to do business differently. Lord know's when they're actually going to open though. Its been well over a year since announcement.