Smooth out differences with investors on light rail route

**pswingset** · July-08-11, 01:32 PM

Downtown alignment looks interesting. Fingers so very crossed that the business community sees this as an acceptable compromise.

http://www.freep.com/article/2011070...s|text|Opinion

**Detroitnerd** · July-08-11, 01:35 PM

It's because their design was stupid. They may be great at running multimillion-dollar companies. They may be great at sealing the business deals they do. They may be very smart at their chosen profession. But their plan was a stinker, and everybody knew it but them. And they're surrounded by yes-men. They must be very unused to being schooled so resoundingly. So, shut up and pay up.

**Detroitnerd** · July-08-11, 01:38 PM

"They did not, however, get a side-running track alignment south of Grand Boulevard that could maximize redevelopment efforts."

This assertion, that side-running rail will maximize development efforts, is patent nonsense. Providing effective mass transit service drives development, not a toonerville trolley that stops where they want it to.

Jesus, pay the money for an effective mass transit system already. I never heard anybody whine by proxy as much as these folks.

**pswingset** · July-08-11, 01:41 PM

I agree Detroitnerd. And if I were these companies and foundations, I would also be worried about the public's perception of a sudden pull out just because I had to make compromises. I think they're in a pr pickle if they pull the money.

**Hypestyles** · July-08-11, 01:53 PM

I would like to see Snyder, Carl Levin, and Prez. Obama get more directly involved in compelling the business folk to follow-through on their commitments. Also I'd like to see the 'big four' forced by the governor to come up with a regional transit authority.. the hedging will continue until doomsday otherwise..

**BrushStart** · July-08-11, 02:44 PM

Why would any of them pull out now? They got essentially everything they originally requested. If they jump ship now, it will not be because they are truly unsatisfied with the current plans, though, they may hold that out as their excuse. Perhaps DDOT didn't stroke M1's egos through the process, but M1 is getting everything that they bargained for. Legally, M1 may actually not be able to back out. The city and feds [[any many other people) have changed their positions and relied on M1's promise to perform. The city and feds have spent copious amounts of money going through planning process with the expectation that M1 would pay up if their requirements were met. Well, their requirements were met, and if they didn't want to pay, they should have never offered the seed money in the first place or backed out before there was so much invested out of taxpayer's wallets. If they do attempt to back out, I hope the feds sue to force their end of the bargain. All of M1's private investors look to make a fortune from the existence of Woodward Light Rail, especially the way it is presently designed.

**Det_ard** · July-08-11, 03:26 PM

Originally Posted by Detroitnerd

Jesus, pay the money for an effective mass transit system already. I never heard anybody whine by proxy as much as these folks.

Says the moocher to the generous benefactors.

When someone's dropping millions into your lap that apparently isn't going to be coming from any other source you gotta be a little more humble. I don't idolize those guys, and they may be wrong about what they think is best, but what's up with the kneejerk distaste for people who throw their own private money at the city? The guy who wanted to build schools [[Thompson?), these guys. If their plan stinks then find some other Richie Rich, or convince your fellow citizens to pony up. These guys walk, and there's no choo-choo under your tree for many Christmases.

**jsmyers** · July-08-11, 03:38 PM

Not to directly disagree with you, Det_ard, but technically, this is not only a matter of people giving, but also trying to control how the public funding [[the vast majority of the initiative) is spent.

**Detroitnerd** · July-08-11, 03:38 PM

Originally Posted by Det_ard

Says the moocher to the generous benefactors.

When someone's dropping millions into your lap that apparently isn't going to be coming from any other source you gotta be a little more humble. I don't idolize those guys, and they may be wrong about what they think is best, but what's up with the kneejerk distaste for people who throw their own private money at the city? The guy who wanted to build schools [[Thompson?), these guys. If their plan stinks then find some other Richie Rich, or convince your fellow citizens to pony up. These guys walk, and there's no choo-choo under your tree for many Christmases.

Apparently, you're not reading what I'm posting here. It was a poor design. They are showing bad faith in that they said they'd go with what was best, and now they're balking.

Generous people indeed, who offer money knowing it will come back to them threefold. They're *business people* fercryinoutloud; they wouldn't do it if it wasn't in their best interest. [[Nice of you to call me a moocher too. Real classy.)

And, jeez, talk about knee-jerk reactions. Why don't you READ what I posted instead of stuffing words in my mouth. Would that be so hard?

**BrushStart** · July-08-11, 03:38 PM

Originally Posted by Det_ard

Says the moocher to the generous benefactors.

When someone's dropping millions into your lap that apparently isn't going to be coming from any other source you gotta be a little more humble. I don't idolize those guys, and they may be wrong about what they think is best, but what's up with the kneejerk distaste for people who throw their own private money at the city? The guy who wanted to build schools [[Thompson?), these guys. If their plan stinks then find some other Richie Rich, or convince your fellow citizens to pony up. These guys walk, and there's no choo-choo under your tree for many Christmases.

I agree with you... somewhat. At this point, the public has a right to be a little bit ornery. True, these guys are putting up lots of money, but they also stand to make lots of money. It isn't as if they are doing this out of the kindness of their pure, benevolent hearts. They are businessmen and I can respect that 100%. But, the public is heavily invested as well at this point. Every taxpayer in the city and has now put up money towards developing this most recent design, which takes into account the plans the private backers wanted. They have received their benefit of the bargain by getting a light rail line that directly serves their proprietary interests. Keep in mind that the city [[read 'public') is still responsible for everything else. They will materially benefit from that. If they start whining now or trying to back out, I feel like the public is in the right. Nobody forced these guys to play ball, but once they said they would and the game started, and everyone else took the time to suit up, it's not fair for them to decide to just walk off the field.

**mwilbert** · July-08-11, 05:05 PM

What I don't understand is why the Kresge foundation guy seems to be so strongly in favor of the curbside line. Kresge doesn't have a direct economic interest, and you would think they would just want the best plan, but that doesn't seem to be the case. In the articles I've read, Rapson sounds more petulant than anything else, which is kind of an odd affect for a foundation head.

However I'm still sticking to my original opinion that they will come to an agreement because if they don't they will both do serious damage and look like idiots. I'm more worried about any budget deal in Washington wiping out the Federal money for the project.