The New York-Detroit Connection Burns Bright

**BrushStart** · July-04-11, 08:10 PM

By now, most Detroiters have read the New York Times piece published this Sunday by Jennifer Conlin highlighting Detroit as the TriBeCa of the Midwest. Writers at the NYT have covered Detroit many times in recent history and have consistently offered a positive take on our town. The same can be said for the New York Post, which published "The new Detroit cool" by Nicole Rupersburg last month. Additionally, NYC Mayor Mike Bloomberg offered suggestions on how to improve Detroit and has publicly supported Mayor Dave Bing. I've read comments to online articles about Detroit and New Yokers have defended rebukes against Detroit by adverse posters. On the streets and in the bars of Detroit, I have personally had New Yorkers tell me how much they love and appreciate Detroit. Some of them have even moved here while other New Yorkers come to visit. In this way, New York seems to have embraced Detroit. Many New Yorkers obviously see the potential of our city, and importantly, they harbor no animus towards us.

Likewise, it seems that most Detroiters have a deep respect and admiration for New York. Perhaps we see New York both as a model for successful urbanism and also find hope in the fact that New York overcame its own issues of urban decline. New York is definitely a beacon of inspiration for Detroit as we attempt to rally.

However, I think there must be more to the NYC-Detroit relationship than token well-wishes between cities. I say this because Detroit is outright loathed by so many people. It's a cold day in hell when you'll hear a kind word spoken about Detroit in most other cities, outside of New York, that is.

I don't know precisely why New York looks out for Detroit, or why New Yorkers have led the charge helping Detroit rebuild its reputation in the eyes of the world. I also can't speak for all Detroiters when I say this, but New York should know that many Detroiters appreciate what you're doing. It's nice to know we have the 'Big Apple' backing us up. As far as I'm concerned, you folks are always welcome in Motown.

**Detroit Stylin** · July-04-11, 08:16 PM

Originally Posted by BrushStart

By now, most Detroiters have read the New York Times piece published this Sunday by Jennifer Conlin highlighting Detroit as the TriBeCa of the Midwest. Writers at the NYT have covered Detroit many times in recent history and have consistently offered a positive take on our town. The same can be said for the New York Post, which published "The new Detroit cool" by Nicole Rupersburg last month. Additionally, NYC Mayor Mike Bloomberg offered suggestions on how to improve Detroit and has publicly supported Mayor Dave Bing. I've read comments to online articles about Detroit and New Yokers have defended rebukes against Detroit by adverse posters. On the streets and in the bars of Detroit, I have personally had New Yorkers tell me how much they love and appreciate Detroit. Some of them have even moved here while other New Yorkers come to visit. In this way, New York seems to have embraced Detroit. Many New Yorkers obviously see the potential of our city, and importantly, they harbor no animus towards us.

Likewise, it seems that most Detroiters have a deep respect and admiration for New York. Perhaps we see New York both as a model for successful urbanism and also find hope in the fact that New York overcame its own issues of urban decline. New York is definitely a beacon of inspiration for Detroit as we attempt to rally.

However, I think there must be more to the NYC-Detroit relationship than token well-wishes between cities. I say this because Detroit is outright loathed by so many people. It's a cold day in hell when you'll hear a kind word spoken about Detroit in most other cities, outside of New York, that is.

I don't know precisely why New York looks out for Detroit, or why New Yorkers have led the charge helping Detroit rebuild its reputation in the eyes of the world. I also can't speak for all Detroiters when I say this, but New York should know that many Detroiters appreciate what you're doing. It's nice to know we have the 'Big Apple' backing us up. As far as I'm concerned, you folks are always welcome in Motown.

here...here!

lilpup · July-04-11, 08:17 PM

You haven't read very much if you believe New York looks out for Detroit. You've certainly NEVER read the business section!

**Lt. Dan Bassett** · July-04-11, 08:29 PM

Besides a nostalgia for the NY of the late '70s [[kinda like the Detroit we seem to be inventing now), 4 reasons they like us:
1. We have the fresh water.
2. We have the low rents.
3. You can send your kid[[s) to private school here for a fraction of of what it costs there.
4. We have Hazen S. Pingree.

Beyond all that, we do have a shot at inventing what sustainable/urban is for the rest of the country to follow.

oh yeah, one more: God does love Detroit and His people who call upon his name and repent.

lilpup · July-04-11, 09:13 PM

I'm afraid they know saps when they see them.

**Lt. Dan Bassett** · July-04-11, 10:01 PM

SAPS. JAPS. Oy, I get easily confused when sophistication visits my no-fly zone.

**Red Devil** · July-04-11, 11:35 PM

Originally Posted by lilpup

You haven't read very much if you believe New York looks out for Detroit. You've certainly NEVER read the business section!

Agreed. The collapse of Detroit can be traced to New York's finance sector, its demands, and its greed.

**rb336** · July-05-11, 07:25 AM

Back in the day, wayyyyyyyy before my time and, i would wager, before MOST of our times, the NYC powers were afraid of Detroit for one reason -- Detroit was becoming a power base totally independent from NY concerns, and it was the only major city that was.

**BrushStart** · July-05-11, 08:23 AM

Originally Posted by rb336

Back in the day, wayyyyyyyy before my time and, i would wager, before MOST of our times, the NYC powers were afraid of Detroit for one reason -- Detroit was becoming a power base totally independent from NY concerns, and it was the only major city that was.

That's interesting; I never knew that.

The reason I started this thread is because most New Yorkers have no dog in our fight, but have been one of the only collections of people to give Detroit a boost. Think about in the negative, what other cities are supportive of Detroit? Consider Chicago... that town loathes Detroit. They have no compassion for our situation. Most people I meet from Chicago think the absolute worst of Detroit. How about on the west coast, anyone ever hear anything kind about Detroit coming from the likes of Seattle, San Fran, or LA..? Crickets. What about Boston, or even Philly? No love from the colony cities. And, then there's the Sunbelt cities; they have been feeding off our ex-pats for the last decade, so they haven't been real supportive of a looming Detroit comeback. All I know is this, with Detroit being a city of so few friends, New York is a powerful ally.

lilpup · July-05-11, 08:28 AM

New York just wants to get close to you in order to pick your wallet. They're not an ally. They can come in here and gentrify you right out of the picture. Don't expect them to take you along for the ride.

**rb336** · July-05-11, 08:40 AM

Originally Posted by BrushStart

That's interesting; I never knew that.

The reason I started this thread is because most New Yorkers have no dog in our fight, but have been one of the only collections of people to give Detroit a boost. Think about in the negative, what other cities are supportive of Detroit? Consider Chicago... that town loathes Detroit. They have no compassion for our situation. Most people I meet from Chicago think the absolute worst of Detroit. How about on the west coast, anyone ever hear anything kind about Detroit coming from the likes of Seattle, San Fran, or LA..?

I agree -- and it isn't exactly a new thing to me. I lived there in the 90's, and had friends in several "artsy" cliques. There was a fascination with Detroit even then. a couple of detroit-themed restaurants/bars sprang up during that time, as did a detroit-themed clothing boutique [[I think it was an off-shoot of the london detroit 2000 store[[?))

agrahlma · July-05-11, 09:04 AM

Ally or not – positive press from a New York writer is a good thing [[if not rare)! New Yorkers throw compliments around like manhole covers [[particularly when it comes to other cities). That said…I think the article is a true compliment. I was just in NYC last week and everyone I met was fascinated with Detroit and wanted to know more about our great city.

lilpup · July-05-11, 09:27 AM

FYI the article of that piece is a well-traveled Northwestern grad. She's been back living with her parents in Ann Arbor between trips.

Her blog is here.

**Bham1982** · July-05-11, 09:28 AM

Originally Posted by Red Devil

Agreed. The collapse of Detroit can be traced to New York's finance sector, its demands, and its greed.

LOL at this thread and particularly this comment.

Especially ironic given that the only reason GM and Chrylser exist is because loans appropriated for financial institutions were at the last second shifted to auto companies and their suppliers.

But, yeah, if you think folks aren't buying Chevys because of "Wall Street Greed", then be my guest.

lilpup · July-05-11, 09:32 AM

Yet GM was, and still is, the top selling auto company in the US. Only the ignorant say GMs don't sell.

**Bham1982** · July-05-11, 09:45 AM

Originally Posted by lilpup

Yet GM was, and still is, the top selling auto company in the US. Only the ignorant say GMs don't sell.

You can't be serious.

Obviously GM's market share has plummeted from past years. Yes, GM is still massive, and sells a ton, but relative to the past, GM is a shadow of past dominance.

GM's lowest-ever market share was in Fall 2010. It's only risen slightly since then, which is attributed by most experts to the Japan earthquake. Virtually all non-Japanese auto firms have seen increases in post-earthquake market share.

lilpup · July-05-11, 09:59 AM

yet despite all the increased competition from the imports, including the lower priced Korean companies which are much more of a market threat than the Japanese, GM *still* has the largest market share

**Bham1982** · July-05-11, 10:05 AM

Originally Posted by lilpup

yet despite all the increased competition GM *still* has the largest market share

Yes, for one whole quarter, and only post-earthquake. Prior to the Japan disaster, Toyota was the largest.

But this is all irrelevent. The issue is long term loss of market share. GM had 55% market share, and domestics had 93% market share a few decades ago.

Imports now grab majority market share. So 93% to less than half is obviously worrisome.

**XDetroitr** · July-05-11, 10:06 AM

As a resident of the NY metro area, I understand the fascination. And it's a very goood omen for Detroit. If history is any indication, the "creative" types are always in the forefront of any true renaissance. And it doesn't hurt that Detroit has some interesting urban architecture and very cheap real estate. Combine that with new business investments and innovative thinkers and you just might get something started [[this time).

Lots of hurders ahead though.... crime, mass transit, the overall economy. As an former resident of the Motor City, I'm truly optimistic..

lilpup · July-05-11, 10:34 AM

Originally Posted by Bham1982

Yes, for one whole quarter, and only post-earthquake. Prior to the Japan disaster, Toyota was the largest.

No, not in the US. On an annual basis in the US Toyota has NEVER surpassed GM in unit sales.

And VW Group is now the largest seller worldwide, not Toyota.

93% market share to less than half is not that worrisome PROVIDED the company is profitable and it's REALLY stupid to think that ONE company is going to maintain majority market share in a field that's now as competitive as autos.

You might want to look at last's years PRE-EARTHQUAKE numbers [[and note that Ford even overtook Toyota to regain the number 2 US sales spot).

**Bham1982** · July-05-11, 10:40 AM

Originally Posted by lilpup

No, not in the US. On an annual basis in the US Toyota has NEVER surpassed GM in unit sales.

Still playing games, are we? It's a fact that Toyota was the largest in the U.S. pre-earthquake disaster. Sales are computed on a quarterly level.

But if it makes you feel better that a massive disaster put GM on top for a quarter or two, be my guest.

Originally Posted by lilpup

And VW Group is now the largest seller worldwide, not Toyota.

And last I checked VW is in Wolfsburg, not Detroit.

Originally Posted by lilpup

93% market share to less than half is not that worrisome PROVIDED the company is profitable and it's REALLY stupid to think that ONE company is going to maintain majority market share in a field that's now as competitive as autos.

Well you're a pretty rare bird to not be even a bit worried about a company that would have ceased to exist a few months ago absent a public bailout.

And if the market share slope is an unrelenting downward trajectory [[absent natural disaster), then, yes, there's a problem, even if there are cylical profits.

lilpup · July-05-11, 10:46 AM

Originally Posted by Bham1982

Still playing games, are we? It's a fact that Toyota was the largest in the U.S. pre-earthquake disaster. Sales are computed on a quarterly level.

But if it makes you feel better that a massive disaster put GM on top for a quarter or two, be my guest.

And last I checked VW is in Wolfsburg, not Detroit.

Well you're a pretty rare bird to not be even a bit worried about a company that would have ceased to exist a few months ago absent a public bailout.

And if the market share slope is an unrelenting downward trajectory [[absent natural disaster), then, yes, there's a problem, even if there are cylical profits.

You obviously don't know shit about the auto industry.

**BrushStart** · July-05-11, 10:55 AM

Thanks for high jacking my thread, fellas.

lilpup · July-05-11, 11:14 AM

don't think it's that much of a jack - "Justin" represents the typical NY biz attitude toward Detroit quite well

**begingri** · July-05-11, 10:41 PM

Originally Posted by Bham1982

Still playing games, are we? It's a fact that Toyota was the largest in the U.S. pre-earthquake disaster. Sales are computed on a quarterly level.

But if it makes you feel better that a massive disaster put GM on top for a quarter or two, be my guest.

And last I checked VW is in Wolfsburg, not Detroit.

Well you're a pretty rare bird to not be even a bit worried about a company that would have ceased to exist a few months ago absent a public bailout.

And if the market share slope is an unrelenting downward trajectory [[absent natural disaster), then, yes, there's a problem, even if there are cylical profits.

Sorry to continue the thread-jacking, but in the US, Toyota has never outsold GM. I believe they [[barely) outsold GM globally last year. GM was on track to take over the global sales crown this year in the wake of Toyota's massive recall due to the unintentional acceleration issues [[in addition to their spectacular new products), not due to the earthquake alone.

Anyway, here are some facts: http://www.gminsidenews.com/forums/f...0-sales-99008/

GM US 2010 sales: 2.215 million
Toyota US 2010 sales: 1.763 million

Also, keep in mind GM got rid of half of their brands [[from 8 down to 4- no more Saturn, Pontiac, Saab, or Hummer) and still held steady/slightly gained market share. That alone shows you how much their sales of the existing brands have gone up.

Anyway, it's nice to see New York [[at least the New York Times) looking out for Detroit. I remember a while back they did one of those mini-vacation type stories about Detroit [[36 hours in Detroit or something like that) and they had a lot of nice things to say.