SMART bus driver refuses to transport nursing mother....

[Zacha341]

SMART bus driver refuses to transport nursing mother:

http://www.myfoxdetroit.com/dpp/news...#disqus_thread

Moms to stage 'Nurse-In' to protest bus driver:

http://www.wxyz.com/dpp/news/region/...feeding?June28

[mtburb]

Now I heard that driver lost her job. Now what's going to happen next, SMART discontinuing route #275 [[where this happened) or Taylor [[where it happened) opting out of SMART? If the latter, then Taylor would eventually end up like Detroit is now, the Southland Center would end up going from a thriving mall [[like it is now) to a dead mall, almost all stores would close, there would be more congestion on the roads and more. I hope those two don't happen.

[Buy American]

So, Afrykayn Moon, who belongs to a group called the Black Mothers Breastfeeding Association gets on a SMART bus and procedes to breast feed her child and expose her breast and nipple to the public. Now, on Friday, approximately 70 women from this group are staging a "nurse in" at the SMART facilities in Troy and Taylor. This is too coincidental in my book. Maybe someone looking for deep pockets?

In my opinion, breast feeding is as natural as breathing and I have no problem with women breast feeding their babies, but do it discretely, please. If any portion of the nipple was visible to passengers then I feel the bus driver had an obligation to ask her to please cover that portion of her anatomy up and if Ms. Moon refused, then the bus driver had a right to sit there until the problem was resolved. I feel sorry for the driver, the company has ganged up on her because of the pressure from this so called association and to me, this is a set up. Watch the lawyers come out of the woodwork on this one.

[Danny]

Now I heard that driver lost her job. Now what's going to happen next, SMART discontinuing route #275 [[where this happened) or Taylor [[where it happened) opting out of SMART? If the latter, then Taylor would eventually end up like Detroit is now, the Southland Center would end up going from a thriving mall [[like it is now) to a dead mall, almost all stores would close, there would be more congestion on the roads and more. I hope those two don't happen.

Rumor volat!

SMART is not opting out of Taylor, the people and businesses of Taylor wouldn't allow it. There is no report on the SMART bus website that Taylor is opting out. As for the nursing mother who refuse bus service in SMART bus, the driver will be written up or be terminated. Most rules are all SMART bus employees are very strict and under the watchful eye from its terminals [[via GPS). If each driver is late ro ran into any disputes, those drivers must problemsolve on those issues of face possible suspensions or termination.

[Bham1982]

The bus driver should be fired.

I can't believe some people are so ignorant as to stop mothers from properly feeding their children.

[Buy American]

The bus driver should be fired.

I can't believe some people are so ignorant as to stop mothers from properly feeding their children.

Obviously Ms. Moon doesn't know the meaning of the word "discretion" when it comes to feeding her child in public. Some common sense would have eliminated any problem she had with the SMART bus driver and this wouldn't have become an issue.

Yes, it is Ms. Moon's civil right to breast feed her child anywhere she wishes to, but what about the rights of others who may have been uncomfortable looking at her breast and nipple? Sometimes the rights of one person infringes on another. Where does one draw the line when it comes to exposing certain body parts in public? A simple blanket thrown over her shoulder, covering her breast or nipple would have stopped the problem in it's tracks.

[Bham1982]

Obviously Ms. Moon doesn't know the meaning of the word "discretion" when it comes to feeding her child in public. Some common sense would have eliminated any problem she had with the SMART bus driver and this wouldn't have become an issue.

There is no indication she wasn't discreet. She says she was covered up.

But it's totally irrelevent. A woman can legally breastfeed anywhere, and there are no paramaters for relative discreetness.

If someone has a issue with breastfeeding, it's their problem, not the mother's.

[ruxy17]

Buy American, I'm sorry that you find a woman's nipple so offensive. Here's a quiz for you: which of the following nipples belong to women? Which belong to men?



Hard to tell, hey?

How about this image, are you offended by this?



Those are some pretty unattractive nipples and breasts on that man. BUT, he took his shirt off in order to communicate his devotion to a particular sports team. So, I mean, I get it. Its cool. If he's comfortable with it, who am I to tell him to put his shirt back on?

Take a look at this guy:



Hot day, out exercising... must be nice to be able to take your shirt off and let the breeze hit your sweaty skin and cool you down. Did I want to see this man's nipples? No, not particularly. Was I offended by them when I did see them? Nope, because I'm not grossed out by "naughty" body parts that everyone has.

And finally, how about these things I see all over the freeways:



Seriously? I just LOVE to stare at detailed and atomically correct testicles when out driving. Oh wait, no I don't.

Homo sapiens are mammals, partly classified as such because we have mammory glands. AKA boobies. With which to feed our children. Kind of a brilliant and beautiful little system God developed for us.

So, BuyAmerican, can you help me understand why one of the most natural acts in the world, and something that humans across the globe and throughout history have done, is considered to be so offensive to you and so many others?

[Buy American]

It doesn't matter to me who wants to take my postings out of context.

As I said, "it is Ms. Moon's civil right to breast feed her child anywhere she wishes to"; however, I believe she, and any other woman out there who wishes to breast feed her child in public should use discretion when doing so.

[fryar]

According to this blog post, the mother was wearing something called a "Moby Wrap" [[webpage here) at the time. The Moby Wrap basically looks like a really elongated blanket, or a giant scarf, wrapped around mother and child a bunch of times to hold the kid in place. The whole thing looks like it takes up a lot of space, such that you'd have to be peeking in order to see anything interesting.

[fryar]

My real issue with this story is that this chickenshit is no reason for busy people not to get where they need to go. I am a little bit in disbelief about the whole thing.

This cannot be allowed to happen over trifles like a breastfeeding mother.

I'm inclined to think the driver should be canned, but I'll grant she may have had conflicting instructions about public nudity or something from management.

[Zacha341]

I knew SMART was going to throw the driver 'under the bus' on this one!

We do not know if there was an moment of Ms. Moon's breast showing? Or if she came aboard with her breast and nipple full-fledged uncovered [[and what defines proper 'covering': not being able to see any 'evidence' of nursing or a bare breast showing fully). The driver asked "what was she holding..." which suggest there was no full breast with baby suckling viewable...

She had a covering of sorts and an infant that small is easy to cover over, babies head and all to nurse. Harder to do when standing up [[I nursed so I know). According to reports the driver was yelling and very confrontation with comments such as "... is that a titty?!" at Moon which was inappropriate.

The rub is was her breast out for an instance [[forgivable in my opinion)? Or was the driver simply IRATE because she saw the top half of her breast [[which can be seen on any day ala low cleavage tops on non-nursing women) and or angry any evidence seeing nursing done on any level, discreet or not.

Perhaps someone else would have gone on their way and got off the bus. Moon refused therefore SMART has had to defend their position which is they claim is not gray: that they do not discriminate towards mothers who nurse. Period. The details seem debatable.

The bus drivers behavior IS questionable: therefor under 'wheels' she went. The issue remaining is what damage control can SMART apply to keep their service reputation [[which is very good in my mind) intact to the riding public.

...In my opinion, breast feeding is as natural as breathing and I have no problem with women breast feeding their babies, but do it discretely, please. If any portion of the nipple was visible to passengers then I feel the bus driver had an obligation to ask her to please cover that portion of her anatomy up and if Ms. Moon refused, then the bus driver had a right to sit there until the problem was resolved. I feel sorry for the driver, the company has ganged up on her because of the pressure from this so called association and to me, this is a set up. Watch the lawyers come out of the woodwork on this one.

[Hypestyles]

... hopefully this won't be an issue if the rail system ever gets going..

[Zacha341]

Yes, and the best of covering can become dislodge for an instant such as the baby coming off the nipple for a moment. This is especially visible with an older baby who might pull their entire mouth away from the breast. Had I observed this [[and I have) I would have just looked away. So long as the mother was ATTEMPTING discretion, it would not have been an offense to me.

The instance of temporary uncovering my have happened when Moon was boarding the bus or when she leaned forward to put money or ticket into the slot along with the items she had with her and a toddler in tow. And as I mentioned before in a comment what defines iron clad perfect 100% un-offensive covering? No evidence of nursing when a mother is nursing? Some might define that an infant completely under a wrap with only it's body form showing while nursing as offensive.... This is debatable I am certain...

The bus driver was OVER the top... and she stated a directive that was not SMARTS policy - thus they've had to damage control and issue their official policy.

Frankly, I'd not want to be on a bus with a newborn or nursing child for so many reasons. It appear Moon was not planning the bus ride. Something about her car broke down... thus why she had the car seats?

There is no indication she wasn't discreet. She says she was covered up.

But it's totally irrelevent. A woman can legally breastfeed anywhere, and there are no paramaters for relative discreetness.

If someone has a issue with breastfeeding, it's their problem, not the mother's.

[Zacha341]

Well where there may have been ambiguity, the drivers now know the policy.

My real issue with this story is that this chickenshit is no reason for busy people not to get where they need to go. I am a little bit in disbelief about the whole thing.

This cannot be allowed to happen over trifles like a breastfeeding mother.

I'm inclined to think the driver should be canned, but I'll grant she may have had conflicting instructions about public nudity or something from management.

[gazhekwe]

Why is it that men can walk around all day with their nipples showing, even those with really pendulous pecs, and no one blinks an eye? It is more of that American culture, women as sex objects, nothing more. Breasts are made for babies to use. The whole sexualization of the female breast is a Euro-American aberration.

[Downtown Lady]

So, Afrykayn Moon, who belongs to a group called the Black Mothers Breastfeeding Association gets on a SMART bus and procedes to breast feed her child and expose her breast and nipple to the public. Now, on Friday, approximately 70 women from this group are staging a "nurse in" at the SMART facilities in Troy and Taylor. This is too coincidental in my book.

It's not a coincidence -- the nurse-in is a direct response to the event.

[Buy American]

It's not a coincidence -- the nurse-in is a direct response to the event.

They rounded up 70 women awfully quick for this one.

[DetroitPole]

On our bus system people are worried about breastfeeding?!

Stabbing, shooting, pooping, eating, yelling, swearing, farting, belching, drinking, fighting, sleeping, you name it, it happens on the bus...and breastfeeding is the issue here?!

[Zacha341]

Nope. Not hard to rally some women to this cause. This is not a NEW phenomenon of organized response and attention.

The La Leche League [[a very large and mostly white breast feeding advocacy organization) has been around for many years and is following this story I am certain.

There are other smaller groups and organizations and supporters who take seriously the right of women to be able to nurse in public.

Like most organizations there are extremist and moderates members within.

They rounded up 70 women awfully quick for this one.

[Zacha341]

LOL! I thought about that. I DETEST riding the bus for all of those reasons and more. You're simply a 'captive' audience to far too much that can impact you directly and personally. Nursing is not on my list of offenses....

On our bus system people are worried about breastfeeding?!

Stabbing, shooting, pooping, eating, yelling, swearing, farting, belching, drinking, fighting, sleeping, you name it, it happens on the bus...and breastfeeding is the issue here?!

[cramerro]

On our bus system people are worried about breastfeeding?!

Stabbing, shooting, pooping, eating, yelling, swearing, farting, belching, drinking, fighting, sleeping, you name it, it happens on the bus...and breastfeeding is the issue here?!

Agreed. Look the other way, move to a different seat - deal with it.

[fryar]

Well where there may have been ambiguity, the drivers now know the policy.

I'm not trying to give the driver a pass or anything. I'm just hesitant to advocate someone's firing outright. Perhaps the leadership failed to inspire the personnel with a sense that the "mail" must go through, through wind or hail or whatever.

That said, what occurred is not ok. The buses have to get people to work. The only reason we can be serene in knowing that something of great importance did not fail to happen is because people of at least some means do not take the bus when critical things are at stake because, well, the bus is unreliable. Because of chickenshit. Like bad maintenance, or bad management, or this episode.

Nothing underlines the idea that buses in the region are not a world-class system of choice more than this farce.

Breasts are made for babies to use. The whole sexualization of the female breast is a Euro-American aberration.

I imagine we might have Queen Victoria to thank for it, although I also think you may be casting the net a bit wide on that one. I'll be more than happy to introduce you to one of Europe's nude public beaches, nekkid kids running round nekkid adults unperturbed and all, if you need convincing that this degree of prudishness is not emblematic of Europe. Of course, when at Rome's beaches... so depending on your tastes, you may not enjoy the tour as much ;-p

No, but this is a thing about the US, that the social acceptability of breastfeeding on an out of the way bench at Disneyland is [[or has been) questionable. I don't mean to America-bash, Europe's having unnecessary issues integrating Muslims, but this is one area where there's definitely more squeamishness on this side of the Atlantic.

They rounded up 70 women awfully quick for this one.

I don't think so, either. This is an issue that is personally important to people who, by and large, are more likely to have the ability to show up and participate in the first place. It's also understandable, I think. Whatever the ratio of women who firmly believe that breastfeeding is preferable, they must be sick and tired of feeling like they have to advance some social agenda every time they want to feed their baby and they happen to be in a mall, not at home, when it is demanded of them by the baby. For each one that goes, I imagine there are many thousands that would, if they had time then, if they had their babies now instead of back when, if they lived in Detroit, if they actually did believe in breastfeeding, etc. They really care about this, it's personal to them. As this thread suggests, this is [[apparently) about public breastfeeding, not a failure in vital urban infrastructure.

Not to discount your general dislike of a lack of standards with regard to social graces.

[guito13]

I, for one, support all women who wish to expose their breasts, for any reason.

[rjk]

I'll bet that both of them are very stubborn inflexible people.
They stood their ground while the people on the bus were inconvenienced.
In my opinion it doesn't say much for either one of them.

The woman could have easily sat down and continued to breastfeed out of the sight of the driver.
As already mentioned the bus driver should have more important things to worry about.