Now that the roads are open in the east riverfront, will developement finally happen?

[royce]

If you drive through the east riverfront, you will see that the roads are now open to traffic. Does this mean that they are also open to development? Already a good portion of Atwater will be reserved for a sewage treatment basin, with no possibility of anything being built on top, except grass. No doubt this is the city's idea of excellent use of valuable riverfront property. However, I beg to ask these questions, "Is Detroit riverfront property really valuable, and does the city know how to develop it to its fullest potential? Clearly, I have reason to doubt that the city can. My first doubt begins with the sewage treatment basin. Why couldn't this thing be built south of Atwater where you have an area designed to just have grass on top? Atwater where this sewage basin is to go should be lined with retail shops or residential development, not land that the public will never have access to. I thought the excitement behind getting rid of the cement silos was to open riverfront land to the citizens of Detroit, either in a public or private way? I guess the city sees this sewage basin as taking up just a small part of the riverfront. I, however, disagree.

My second doubt has to do with parking lots that dot the east riverfront. Is a parking lot behind Rivard Plaza the best use of that land? Couldn't parking along the south side of Atwater solve that issue? Also, look at how much space the parking lot for Chene Park takes up. Moving Chene Park amphitheater to the Ford Auditorium site would solve that issue. In addition, there is a fenced in parking lot across from the marina at Milliken Park. There's also an unofficial, and unpaved parking lot next to it. Will it be available for development? And finally regarding parking lots, can't the RiverPlace complex and Diamond Jack's boat tours build a parking deck along Atwater, or even partially over it, to free up land for a residential/commercial complex along the RiverWalk?

My third issue concerns the distance of Atwater to the river itself. The distance is still close to two football fields long. At least from Rivard Street to Orleans there is room for a closer street to the river. In an old artist's rendering done for GM's plans to develop commercial and residential east of the RenCen, a new street was shown to run from St. Antoine to Rivard. This street was deemed necessary for development. I agree and I would take it one step further by extending this street to Orleans Street just north of the current state park and RiverWalk. Tearing down that big hill that obstructs the view of the river at Orleans would also be good for development.

Finally, my last issue is with the riverfront properties that were given to developers but were never developed. What is to happen to the properties on the east riverfront south of Atwater that were given to Mayor Bing [[Watermark), former running back Jerome Bettis [[RiverEast), and the developer of @water? Is this land still in their hands? What are their plans now? Should new developers have an opportunity to develop the failed sites? Should new plans for development be negotiated? What will the city do? Again, is riverfront property in Detroit really valuable and does the city know how to develop it to its fullest potential? I remain skeptical.

[royce]

After 24 hours, no one has a comment to make? Is this such a non-issue for most of you that it's not worth responding to? Again, what was all the hoopla and excitement all about when the city finally got the cement silos torn down. City officials to the everyday joe were saying in interviews that this would finally open up the riverfront to the people. Is the RiverWalk all the development that people want?

For me, development along the east riverfront between the Jos Campau and the GM/RenCen site is the most important development Detroit faces. Why? Because riverfront property is supposed to be the most valuable and desirable piece of land that a city can have, right? If you can attract people to live on the riverfront, then you create businesses, shops, jobs, and a vibrant and safe community, one that people are desperately looking for here in Detroit. Build a house, brownstone, condo, or apartment complex that I can afford to move into and I am there yesterday. Am I just impatient?

I know that the economy is bad, but is that stopping people from building new homes or moving into vibrant communities in the exburbs? I mean, really, the City of Detroit can't get those people to move along the riverfront if the conditions were right? Would this be and issue in New York or Chicago? What gives?

[gnome]

Hey Royce, Where do you get the idea no one can walk on top of those big septic tanks? In Birmingham they have three of them ...all in public parks. One is under a golf course, two others are under playscapes and picnic areas, another basin in Beverly Hills is part of a nature preserve.

You seem adamant in believing they are unfit for humans, I'm not following you here on this one; are you saying that DPW will screw this up so bad it is bound to fail?

To me the City has forever closed off the water from the people. To line Atwater with residential Highrises or strip mall retail would again close off the water; can't imagine that is a good thing.

[Lowell]

For what it matters Windsor, who has done an outstanding job on its riverfront, is building one too.

As for lack of response, I think it is due more to a lack of news than the forum reading without comment your as usual well-written posts. If a development was being launched or canceled as a result of the basin, I am sure we would be all over it.

Right now things are stalemated by a combination of several factors, most importantly the state of the economy and the instability of City of Detroit's financial and political situation.

Nonetheless, I anticipate energies and efforts to resume there as it is the most attractive location for residential development in the city.

[royce]

Hey Royce, Where do you get the idea no one can walk on top of those big septic tanks? In Birmingham they have three of them ...all in public parks. One is under a golf course, two others are under playscapes and picnic areas, another basin in Beverly Hills is part of a nature preserve.

You seem adamant in believing they are unfit for humans, I'm not following you here on this one; are you saying that DPW will screw this up so bad it is bound to fail?

To me the City has forever closed off the water from the people. To line Atwater with residential Highrises or strip mall retail would again close off the water; can't imagine that is a good thing.

Gnome, your points about what is on top of these big septic tanks is my point of contention with DPW. There is land south of Atwater which serves as the Milliken State Park. Why didn't DPW and the state work out a deal where this sewage retention basin [[septic tanks) could have gone under the state park? Now what you will have is park land south of Atwater as well as north of Atwater. From what I understand about the land DPW is using, it will stretch from Rivard to Orleans. If you know that stretch of the riverfront, that is one hell of a long stretch of real estate to have as a nature preserve, golf course, public park, or whatever when you have that exact same stretch of land to the south of Atwater that is being used for an exact or similar purpose. That's overkill to me, and I fault DPW for not going to the state or Riverfront Conservancy and saying, ''look, we need land to build a sewage retention basin can we build it under your park?" That would have left the land north of Atwater available for retail and residential development. As Lowell mentioned, Windsor is building a sewage retention basin as well along their riverfront, but their building it on park land that is already on the riverfront.

Also, regarding your statement about the city forever closing off the water to the public, I'm not quite sure how much riverfront land you expect the city to leave open to the general public. The RiverWalk, Rivard Plaza, and Milliken Park are pretty sizeable chunks of land open to the public. In addition, you still have Belle Isle Park right across the way. I've made in known as well that I think that another road should line the riverfront south of Atwater because the distance from Atwater to the river's edge is nearly two football fields long. Another road/street closer to the river would give the public quicker access to it. However, I would like to see some retail/restaurants and residences between the new road and Atwater.

I don't know. I've seen other cities and how they make use of their riverfronts and they just seem to make better use of them than what we are doing here in Detroit. Yes, what we have now is a vast improvement over what we had 10, 20, or even 30 years ago, but I still think it can be so much better.

[jsmyers]

Stormwater retention basins are not the same thing as septic tanks. Their function is prevent pollution from reaching the Detroit River. The pollution of concern is primarily sediment, but also trash, very warm water, and various residues that end up on the streets from oil, tires, and brakes.

They can be built on top of if there is a need too, though some say that makes them harder to take care of. They can also be landscaped in a way that makes them an attractive part of the landscape.

[Warrenite84]

I believe, [[and hope), that the past developments planned near the riverfront are just on 'pause' until economic conditions improve. That being said, I would like to see development near the river to be stepped with 2-3 story structures near the river and taller residential buildings set back. This would allow river views from more distant properties, allow some dense development, and perhaps restaurants and shops to develop near the river in a walkable district.

[Detroitnerd]

We have plenty of land available for housing. In fact, we have plenty of housing. Instead of trying to build more housing when we already have so much vacant housing, wouldn't it be wiser to see about restoring services to where ordinary people live? The neighborhoods?

[BrushStart]

I believe, [[and hope), that the past developments planned near the riverfront are just on 'pause' until economic conditions improve. That being said, I would like to see development near the river to be stepped with 2-3 story structures near the river and taller residential buildings set back. This would allow river views from more distant properties, allow some dense development, and perhaps restaurants and shops to develop near the river in a walkable district.

I agree completely; that would be best-case-scenario.

[hybridy]

development that was to be...

chene west
@water
watermark
renshore
globe trading

there may be others that i can no longer recall

[gnome]

Good post Royce, per usual, you raise interesting questions. While I agree with you, my point is that more green space, the better. At least as far as the river front is concerned.

Until recently, well at least for the last decade or so, the Detroit answer to the river was to turn our backs to the water, wall it off, or build windowless buildings. The Joe, Cobo, Ford Auditorium, Ren Cen ... all of them shut the water views off and thereby diminished a valuable resource for the rest of the City.

Even now with the refreshing plans for Cobo and the RenCen riverwalk there are only a small handful of restaurants with a view of the water. No where else in the country will you find 20 miles of waterfront with maybe - maybe - ten places to grab a bite. I guess it is a pet peeve of mine that we treat waterviews as something to be walled off.

But again Royce you bring up valid points on why the City couldn't dovetail efforts. Seems like a natural fit, especially when you consider DPW ponied up a cool 5 million for that property. [[sigh)

[Rocko]

Royce original quote:

And finally regarding parking lots, can't the RiverPlace complex and Diamond Jack's boat tours build a parking deck along Atwater, or even partially over it, to free up land for a residential/commercial complex along the RiverWalk?

Diamond Jack's just leases space from the RiverPlace in this lot. It would be up to the RiverPlace to build a parking deck on the property south of Atwater and west of Jos. Campau. If I had my way, residential/retail would line the riverwalk and the Atwater/Campau sides, with a parking lot centrally located in the middle.

I think this thread is very timely and important. In my opinion, what they've done with the new streets down there has really messed up the old industrial feel of the streets in the lower warehouse district. Much of the charm of this area came from the narrow streets with old sidewalks, telephone poles, and brick industrial buildings. The new streets with sidewalks, buried utilities, and new "antique" streetlights give it a kind of Disneyworld feel, taking away much of the authenticity that was there. I know the renewed streets were only undertaken through a small portion of the district, but it was a district that contained many of the older warehouses and brick buildings.

In the last 10 years, virtually all the remnants of the railroad tracks which once crisscrossed the area have been wiped away. Only the Dequindre Cut remains. The old curvature of the tracks toward the RenCen and the line coming down along Bellevue are almost impossible to find now. I hope that the old railbed down Wight Street east of the Coast Guard Station can be preserved, as this is among the very last vestiges of historic railroad industrial street running in the city. Washington DC is currently preserving unused streetcar tracks in one district simply to maintain the character of the neighborhood and help to preserve the story. It could be great if this one-block-long stretch could be preserved and maintained, too.

If I had my way, a moratorium would be placed on demoing anything south of Jefferson between Rivard and Meldrum. Incentives would be given for projects involving the reuse and rehab of buildings within this area to encourage them to be redeveloped.

Obviously, the lands that are parking lots or open space are ripe for new development. But in the places where the old industrial buildings from the prior turn of the century still remain, these should be protected and reused to help maintain the character, charm, draw, and history that this district evokes.



PS - Can't wait to see the Globe Building renovated!

[corktownyuppie]

I believe, [[and hope), that the past developments planned near the riverfront are just on 'pause' until economic conditions improve.

Agreed. The demand is there. The lending is not. As lending loosens you'll see this get better.

We have plenty of land available for housing. In fact, we have plenty of housing. Instead of trying to build more housing when we already have so much vacant housing, wouldn't it be wiser to see about restoring services to where ordinary people live? The neighborhoods?

I agree with the sentiment...restoring services is as important as building new housing. The thing is that they aren't mutually exclusive. In fact, I'd argue that given the shortfall in the budget, the only way to restore service is to increase tax revenue to the city.

Now there are only 3 [[basic) ways of increasing tax revenue:

[[1) Increasing the income tax rate. Anyone in favor of this?
[[2) Increasing the incomes of the residents, thereby increasing tax revenue while keeping taxes the same. [[I think we're all in favor of this.)
[[3) Attracting new residents to the city who will increase the tax rolls.

Admittedly, I'm biased toward my own demographic. So I'm open minded and willing to entertain other ideas. But I believe that the rebound of Detroit will be a combination of middle class families migrating *out* of the city and upper-middle class [[professional singles...dual income no kids...retirees) moving *in* to the city.

Higher income residents [[especially those with no children) have so much more ability to add to the tax revenues while simultaneously being less of a burden on city resources than middle class families.

The demand is there for higher income couples and singles to move downtown. They're willing to pay the city income taxes and the city property taxes. Many of the developments include secured parking and private secured entrance...both of which take some of the burden off of our already strained police force. For those families in Palmer Woods or Boston Edison, they're even willing to pay out-of-pocket to pay for their own security forces.

Having grown up by Finney High and seeing the gradual destruction of parts of the city, it breaks my heart to say this. And philosophically, you might disagree. But If a developer wants to come, spend money, employee people, and bring in 30 residents who all gladly pay $6,000 in property taxes and another $2,000 in income tax while adding no burden to the school system and paying for their own security?!?!

WELCOME THEM WITH OPEN ARMS.

[stasu1213]

When is the Port Authority Terminal open? The riverwalk in front of it is open but the terminal still hasn't open. As for the riverfront, GM was given a portion of the riverfront by Bing as part of the deal to keep GM from moving out of the RenCen to Warren Michigan. GM is holding up some of the developement to the riverfront

[rb336]

I've talked with the folks at Betters Development, [[the company the Bus is partnering with on the Chene project and "Belleview" - the Uniroyal site project) and they insist they WILL build eventually. MDEQ approved a remediation plan for the Uniroyal site with DTE Energy Inc., Michelin, DuPont, and Enodis [[whatever that company is) paying the bill as responible parties. That was February of 2010.

[DetroitPlanner]

I believe, [[and hope), that the past developments planned near the riverfront are just on 'pause' until economic conditions improve. That being said, I would like to see development near the river to be stepped with 2-3 story structures near the river and taller residential buildings set back. This would allow river views from more distant properties, allow some dense development, and perhaps restaurants and shops to develop near the river in a walkable district.

I agree. I'd also like to see as little building as possible along the riverfront and more opening it up as a public space. This would act as Detroit's front yard. I support the stepped development idea but starting more closer to Jefferson and leaving as much to the south possible as a greenbelt. Save any historic structures that seem reasonable and build around those.

The reconstructions of roads and infastructure is great and needed, but it won't open the area up for development as much as improved economic conditions will. This is much like the reverse of how suburbs develop first cause congestion, then forcing decisions to be made about expanding the transportation network. Here the infastructure was fortified first.

[stasu1213]

I agree. I'd also like to see as little building as possible along the riverfront and more opening it up as a public space. This would act as Detroit's front yard. I support the stepped development idea but starting more closer to Jefferson and leaving as much to the south possible as a greenbelt. Save any historic structures that seem reasonable and build around those.

The reconstructions of roads and infastructure is great and needed, but it won't open the area up for development as much as improved economic conditions will. This is much like the reverse of how suburbs develop first cause congestion, then forcing decisions to be made about expanding the transportation network. Here the infastructure was fortified first.

I would rather see more building on the two repaved streets that runs from atwater up to Jefferson. Retail and restaurants could line those two streets as well as the renovated Globe Building. The huge lot where people park their cars at when attending an event could be made into another park with a bicycle trail. I love the quietness while walking along Atwater from Rivard to the Dequindre Cut. Especially on a nice sunny afternoon are early evening when there is not anything going on at Chene Park.