Gilbert Buying the Dime

[Packman41]

Glad to help out.
.....when it's all said and done, the tax breaks WILL pay for all these deals. By my tally, there's $15M for the Dime, $16M for the Chase, $8M for the First National and $1.4M for the Madison Theatre [[all that's confirmed by CoStar as well). So, that puts him at $40.4 million, with another $7ish to go. But he's going to need to pour a lot of money into some of these buildings to get them up to the standards that Class A tenants demand.
And if anyone has seen his build-out in the Compuware Building, it's not cheap to get a building to the condition that Dan Gilbert wants, so I wouldn't be surprised if he still hits that $240 million figure without doing a new construction HQ.

Wow. Your comment, “…the tax breaks WILL pay for all these deals” sums it up rather well.

In other words this building and renovation spree is free to Gilbert. He will not have any of his own money at risk – only OPM or Other Peoples Money.



Dan you said, “At the time [[2009), he said he's investing $240 million [[I think that's where the 200+ number came from)."

Actually, my source for the $200 million was an article from the Detroit News in November 14, 2007 [[3.5 years ago – time flies when you’re having fun) by Louis Aguilar:http://detnews.com/article/20071114/BIZ/711140386/City-pegs-growth-on-Quicken#ixzz1Q2Yvk0Q7

That article cited: Quicken will get local and state tax breaks of:
1. $115 million over 20 years because it will be located in a Renaissance Zone.
2. $45 million Michigan Economic Growth Act tax credit.
3. $40 million from the City of Detroit to subsidize parking, just as it does for offices of Electronic Data Systems in the RenaissanceCenter.

Now, three and one-half years ago is a long time and the subsidies may have gone through several changes, but I believe your comment that the TAX BREAKS will pay for ALL these deals.

Dan I appreciate you looking into this at my request and for explaining to the folks on this forum. Again, thank you.

[Genesyxx]

Eh... as an East Riverfront resident, I am suddenly NIMBY about an amusement park. Family fun center in the Globe Trading Company, sure. But Chene Park generates enough traffic in the area. I can't imagine what living next door to Six Flags Over Detroit would be like.

Probably not a good idea to put it on the east riverfront, but I'd love seeing something happen on the West, right behind the Main Post Office. Maybe more space if USPS still plans to move to Pontiac.

[3WC]

I can't believe Gilbert would offer $15 million for the Dime. Even with other people's money.

A prior owner walked away from the building with $2 million in unpaid taxes. Nobody bought it at the tax sale and title eventually reverted to the City. The BOSC Group bought it from the City [[in much better economic times) for $7 mil I recall. and put another $30 million plus into it. They bought several big tenants in by making outlandish, money losing deals.

Unless Gilbert is planning on using it as his HQ, which is improbable, it's not worth a fraction of what he's reported to have offered for it. Wells-Fargo would sell for a lot less, I guarantee you.

[spiritofdetroit]

Folks, there is a lot of misinformation here.

First, a tax break worth potentially $200 million DOES NOT mean Gilbert was handed $200 million in cash to do as he pleases with.

For instance - he has spent $35 million on his renovations to the Compuware Building. Part of the deal includes a personal property tax exemption, meaning he pays no tax on the furniture, fixtures, etc. in the building, saving him a few million over the duration of the 12 year credit. This is not a cash hand out. It will be savings over the course of a very long time, dependent on the amount he spends. If he doesnt invest in furniture, he gets no tax break.

Parking subsidies provided by the city is another part of this $200 million. This, again, is not cash in Gilbert's pocket. Rather, it provides X number of city owned parking spots to Quicken employees over the course of X number of years.

Next, the MEGA agreements that limit his state tax are based on maintaining a certain headcount, and certain minimum wage to qualify. He has to pay these employees a combined ton of money in order to activate credits.

These are just a few of the many breaks, but clearly, it is not cash in his pocket.

3WC. Chase and Dime will be filled with his own employees, plus the remaining tenants. The interesting one will be the First National Building... that's supposed to be all outsiders... And then there will be residential.... there is still more to come, as I stated awhile back, prior to the Dime announcement.

[spiritofdetroit]

The Dime needs no renovation dollars. It is ready to go. The First National will see some major investment for renovation, and if you look into the Chase Building, there is a ton of work going on on the upper floors - with a main floor renovation coming soon... This renovation will be in the tens of millions.

[gthomas]

The Dime needs no renovation dollars. It is ready to go. The First National will see some major investment for renovation, and if you look into the Chase Building, there is a ton of work going on on the upper floors - with a main floor renovation coming soon... This renovation will be in the tens of millions.

So are there any renderings of the ground level space of the Chase Towers? Is the Apple Store still considering that location?

[spiritofdetroit]

Gilbert said again today that he is hoping to lure Apple. Have not seen renderings for Chase ground floor changes....

[gthomas]

Gilbert said again today that he is hoping to lure Apple. Have not seen renderings for Chase ground floor changes....

Can't wait to see what this guy got up his sleeves!! Its all good to me...and..to all these doubters, skeptical of his Detroit 2.0 project, go somewhere else and down talk another city. His doing what many of our region leaders never done. He's on a roll and leaving you'll all behind. We finally get a leader who is progressive, straight foward, and willing to change to landscape of downtown Detroit, is it that we're slow and use to failure? He's smart and has a vision that some of you will never have. BE THE CHANGE YOU SEE IN OTHERS...Ase'!

[Gistok]

Can't wait to see what this guy got up his sleeves!! Its all good to me...and..to all these doubters, skeptical of his Detroit 2.0 project, go somewhere else and down talk another city. His doing what many of our region leaders never done. He's on a roll and leaving you'll all behind. We finally get a leader who is progressive, straight foward, and willing to change to landscape of downtown Detroit, is it that we're slow and use to failure? He's smart and has a vision that some of you will never have. BE THE CHANGE YOU SEE IN OTHERS...Ase'!

Gthomas.... save your breath and stop preaching to the choir....
... and you might get your message across better if you proofread your grammar...

It's the units of government and business community you should save your lectures for...

[gthomas]

Gthomas.... save your breath and stop preaching to the choir....
... and you might get your message across better if you proofread your grammar...

It's the units of government and business community you should save your lectures for...

I'm pretty sure your so called "Government and Business community" should hear my lecture, but I'm responding to your comments and others. I'm not making up this, you all is writing this and I'm responding. I will not be quiet and stop preaching just cause you feel a certain way. You're probably the person I'm talking about...leave me be, you not doing me a favor, GISTOK.

[rbdetsport]

Gilbert said again today that he is hoping to lure Apple. Have not seen renderings for Chase ground floor changes....

When/Where did he say this today?

[begingri]

When/Where did he say this today?

Not sure if this is the story or not, but this was published yesterday: http://www.mlive.com/news/detroit/in..._gilberts.html

I know it re-hashes a lot of what we already know, but it's a good read.

[Gistok]

I'm pretty sure your so called "Government and Business community" should hear my lecture, but I'm responding to your comments and others. I'm not making up this, you all is writing this and I'm responding. I will not be quiet and stop preaching just cause you feel a certain way. You're probably the person I'm talking about...leave me be, you not doing me a favor, GISTOK.

Gthomas, you're not doing yourself any favor by telling everyone else on this forum what is already obvious to all of us who ARE historic preservation minded downtown boosters. "Preaching to the choir" is telling us "what we already know and already agree with".....

So save you lectures for the folks that need them, NOT most DYESers. Otherwise you come off as naiive and uninformed.

Lecturing the entire DYES group gets you nowhere....

[Baselinepunk]

"Gilbert Buying the Dime"

I hope he doesn't get short-changed.



ba dump.

[j to the jeremy]

Not sure if this is the story or not, but this was published yesterday: http://www.mlive.com/news/detroit/in..._gilberts.html

I know it re-hashes a lot of what we already know, but it's a good read.

Gilbert is doing great things, but he needs to leave the rail to the government and the engineers. Center-running rail is needed almost everywhere on Woodward except for around his office towers. The M1 people need to let the Midtown portions run down the middle, if they want ANYONE AT ALL to ride the train to their offices downtown. Otherwise it will be slower than a bus. This is Light Rail, not a Streetcar. Denver and Minneapolis have both. Let's not get too horny over a glorified employee shuttle before we have a legitimate base for a regional transit system

[gthomas]

Gthomas, you're not doing yourself any favor by telling everyone else on this forum what is already obvious to all of us who ARE historic preservation minded downtown boosters. "Preaching to the choir" is telling us "what we already know and already agree with".....

So save you lectures for the folks that need them, NOT most DYESers. Otherwise you come off as naiive and uninformed.

Lecturing the entire DYES group gets you nowhere....

How do you know I'm not reaching out to those politicians and community leaders? I'm very aware of the issues here and is doing my part as a concern citizen. I'm responding to who's talking too much, I say put your money where your mouth is. I understand what you are saying, but I'm frustrated that all we do is complain on here. I'm going to meetings/forums throughout the city fighting for what we need. I'm involve in many local organization and committees, traveling across states seeking economic improvement for Detroit. I'm very young, in my late 20's who loves my city...I left and came back to make a change. I see other cities doing what I'm trying to do here, but it's not easy convincing politicians and community leaders here. Its a power thing here and some need to get over themselves. Its not about you, more less for the citizens who lives through it everyday. I apologize if I come off like a preacher, but being nice isn't going to get far either?

[Planner3357]

I'm sorry Gthomas...I'm with Gistok. I liken the way you write to that of a 5 year old. Your ideas are ridiculous and far-fetched. You are, if anything, a huge dreamer with no sense of reality. I think you live in Lala Land.

Every time I read one of your ridiculous posts I am embarrassed for you.

Have a great weekend!

[gthomas]

I'm sorry Gthomas...I'm with Gistok. I liken the way you write to that of a 5 year old. Your ideas are ridiculous and far-fetched. You are, if anything, a huge dreamer with no sense of reality. I think you live in Lala Land.

Every time I read one of your ridiculous posts I am embarrassed for you.

Have a great weekend!

I'm sorry you feel that way, its not about you. Trust, I'm not embarrassed for your constructive criticism or hate towards me..I love suggesting it to you otherwise. I'm not trying to impress non of you on here, neither press to prove my point to you idiots. You and many others need to focus on the solution and not others. The reality, is that I have proven issues that are not far-fetched and can be done as I have already done as a leader in this city. I'm sorry you had a bad day, mines always great. You made it better! Is there anything else you will like to say to me? Keep it coming so called smart-ass..WHAT HAVE YOU'VE DONE LATELY...probably nothing but run your mouth.

[gthomas]

How can I be a dreamer or a guy that has no sense of reality when I'm living in it everyday? I just pinched myself, OH I'm not dreaming. Is it that hard or far-fetched that I attend meetings with investors, community leaders, politicians, and business leaders whos moving this city foward? Maybe you need to get off your ass and do something beside point the finger at people who want to make a change. Grow up...its not that difficult. I breath, taste, live, sleep, and work hard on this and its working. Next..

[j to the jeremy]

you guys should just use the "ignore" option for each other...

[gthomas]

you guys should just use the "ignore" option for each other...

I agree! I'm only on here to give what I know, not entertain doubters. So therefore, lets get back on topic and stay focus on what we can do better rather critcise something that doesn't pertain to the subject. Did I make that clear enough for you to understand my message as a 5 yr old. I have records of my work in this community and whom I have affiliated with, do you? I'm done entertaining you Detyes'r...Have a good evening.

[bartock]

It's like Danny and Detroit Dad mated.

[detroiter79]

Good news! Hopefully he can boost occupancy. Im surprised occupancy is around 36%. I thought it was like 20%

I just checked the building's stats in Costar and it looks like it's currently 63.9% leased, but it could definitely be empty - there could very well be some shadow inventory in the building that is leased out but unoccupied. The largest tenant in the building is H&R Block with 101,000 SF. The Social Security Administration and Office of the Chapter 13 Standing Trust have another 30,000SF. The 12th-17th floors are currently vacant and that's a good 85,000 SF, so there's definitely room for a beg tenant.

[spiritofdetroit]

The Dime will be filled with Gilber related entities.

The one to wonder about it the First National...

[gthomas]

The Dime will be filled with Gilber related entities.

The one to wonder about it the First National...

?Sears Holding? Just kidding..Oh, he mention major renovation to both the Dime building & First National building. The ground floor level of the Chase buiding will be expanded 20 ft. out towards Woodward with possible retailers Apple or Microsoft. Also, he's working with a design firm to redesign the First National ground level into something funky and cool.