Stalking the Easy Marks Downtown

[Gannon]

After drinks and dinner with my Livonia Friend and his lovely bride at the Park Bar tonight...my honey and I went for a walk around downtown to see what's new.

We were 'marked' and stalked by no fewer than three young men, within a six block stroll...it was VERY obvious.


Each time, when we realized someone we'd just passed had turned around and was approaching us from behind...we BOTH would simply turn around and fronted them with no fear. But we made it quite obvious we were aware of their gaming.

The last guy actually was clearly calculating his odds. He almost chose to go with it, too...it was THAT close, I could see it in his eyes. Felt it DEEP in my gut.



I believe we need some plainclothes police officers strolling around alone in the CBD, especially younger rookies who LOOK like easy marks. There has to be some form of honeypotting, drawing these potential thugs into making the mistake.of acting out against the wrong person.

Word has to get out that this form of behavior doesn't work in the city.


I know I'm going to catch hell for this post. I simply do not care. I've always been able to sense when I'm marked, it is EASY to see someone alter their path to intersect with yours.

Sure, it is more crucial when I'm with my partner...because her safety is my utmost importance...but extrapolate to the greater whole with me, and let's see if there can be some pro-active solution to quell what could devolve into a very ugly situation.

We simply cannot go back to the desolation and wanton crime we suffered during the last two economic downturns. Downtown MUST become a safezone beyond measure, or we will never succeed in smashing our bad reputation.


Are our leaders up to this task?! Or are they too distracted with inter-office arguing, corruption...and graft?


Am I dreaming?! Is there any hope? Sure would like to allow folks to be able to wander around without being some thug's easy mark.


Sincerely,
John

[downtown_racine]

Sounds awful, I think is going to be a more common occurrence as po' folks become more common and brazen.
Life has no value and means nothing to many hopeless souls, watching the news it appears they are all around us. Sad.

[Searay215]

Where is Charles Bronson when you need him......Death Wish. All I can say John....is you did the right thing. When punks are confronted, they tend to put their tails between their legs and run.
Personally I think if a few of these punks need to run into someone packing heat.....

Society as a whole is slowly breaking down..... in my humble opinion there will be a tipping point and God help us when that happens.

[izzyindetroit]

I want some of the shit you're smoking!

[UpTown]

Lest we forget this story from about 4 years ago:
http://www.clickondetroit.com/news/14224999/detail.html

Went to the Wings game back a month or so ago, and got the same treatment. I have the mean-mug look when they turn around and start following me, but it didn't deter them. Guess I need to start carrying, especially considering the foot traffic walking to a Wings game is relatively easy suburban fish to snatch up.

[Gannon]

Let me be clear.

We turned and looked directly at them, but with NO malice nor judgement. I only wanted them to know we were aware of their actions...IF they had any intent. I never even STOPPED walking for the first couple of guys.

I 'confronted' nobody. Not a one of these fellows ever got nearer than ten feet from us, that last fellow was the closest. We had a pause in our trajectories of life, simple as that. But I DID see his expression, and knew exactly when he decided to move on. I saw it in his face, demeanor, and even his POSTURE.

I harbor no hatred in my heart towards these boys/men. I recognize that there is usually some deeper issues they have, and most crime is borne of desperation. I also do NOT hold any judgement against them, since not a one of them committed any crime against me or my partner.


It DID truly torque her emotions, though. She was quite disturbed by it all, since after six her beloved downtown...where she works at least five days a week, for more than the last seven years...turns decidedly cold and ugly and dangerous.

She is NO stranger to interacting with the people who populate our streets during the day, and is as open and friendly to the homeless she encounters as me...if not moreso. She IS aware of the flow of the folks downtown, and the risks of letting her guard down.


And Izzy?! Can it. There was no smoking tonight. Two beers, only, too. Sorry your asinine assumption couldn't be correct. Please try again, and dig for something actually witty this time.


Cheers

[gnome]

You did the right thing. No need to gun down somebody.

I think the answer is more defenseless women. Thousands of grannies, with purses that could fit a SmartCar, could straighten out CBD in a heartbeat. People tend to behave themselves around guns, dogs and Grannies. We've tried the strong-arm techniques , time to try something different. Grannies giving out peach pie to boyz who behave.

Hmmm, I wonder ....

[Gannon]

Talking over our espresso, darlin' said, "I felt like prey. And on the block where I park. That was the first time, and I didn't like it at all."

Girl's got empathy and spiritual antennae more sensitive than mine...I've learned to not EVER question her intuition.


Gnome, I've got our recruiter already, then. Livonia friend's beauty-bride runs a foot-doctor's office downtown, she knows ALL the little-old ladies. From what I've gleaned from visiting their office and encountering these wonderful old broads is that these thugs have another thing coming if they dare turn their sights on 'em. They didn't GET to be little ol' ladies in downtown Detroit the easy way, LOL!


Cheers!

[Detroitej72]

I think the answer is more defenseless women. Thousands of grannies, with purses that could fit a SmartCar, could straighten out CBD in a heartbeat. People tend to behave themselves around guns, dogs and Grannies. We've tried the strong-arm techniques , time to try something different. Grannies giving out peach pie to boyz who behave.

Hmmm, I wonder ....

You might be onto something. Last year in Hamtramck, some thug tried to snatch a granny's purse and she started to lecture him about what an embarrassment he was and how his mom would certainly be ashamed of him. The thug let go of her purse and ran away.

[evergreen]

You guys are funny. I know a granny type who was mugged in broad daylight in Northwest Detroit, only a few blocks away from Sherwood Forest. I know of several 'granny types' who've been mugged in Detroit. The only difference between them and the non grannies is that they tend to get mugged during daylight hours.

The DPD won't use decoys because of the history of Stress. So the criminals are fairly assured that muggings/strong arm robberies etc can be undertaken with no risk of encountering a decoy.

Decoys are just a tool, when in the hands of racists, it will be used in a racist manner, when used by non-racists it shouldn't be. After more nearly 40 years of black control of the DPD it's time to bring this tool back. They haven't abandoned guns just because bad cops have improperly used them.

There will be no significant decrease in street crimes until the DPD starts using decoy techniques. I've got 40 years of proof.

[gnome]

This plan may have some legs, except for the uncomfortable fact that most of the Grandmothers around here are only 37 years old.

[ct_alum]

Gannon:

There was such a DPD unit - It was called S.T.R.E.S.S., you might have heard of it. Coleman Young used it to get elected Mayor.

[DetroitPole]

Grannies don't work anymore. What about the nun who was robbed at St. Clare of Montefalco by the kid because his mom said he was "howngry"? What about the rape of the elderly woman? The robbing of the elderly couple in Boston Edison?

Now, where is Bernhard Goetz when you need him?

These punks aren't victims of society. They're victims of their upbringing. I see it all the time in my neighborhood. Small children allowed to run wild - ma's car in the drive, but never anywhere to be seen. They break windows, hang around vacant houses, steal from the corner store - they're going to be those thugs downtown in a few years.

Hopefully the next guy the mess with is packing and sends one of them to hell; make an example of him for the rest of his buddies before they kill or rape an innocent person.

[Bagley]

I live in a very safe neighborhood but I keep a watchful eye on my surroundings and I am usually armed not out of fear but a love for guns and the 2nd Amendment. I would highly recommend self defense and/or firearms training. The best defense when walking in a crowded city is a good offense. Never be afraid to ask someone who is approaching you to STOP and don't let someone who doesn't fit in or makes you uncomfortable out of your sight. If you really want to feel "marked" walk down Canal St. in NYC. I'm not sure that the street thieves in Detroit compare to some other cities.

[Zacha341]

Right! And some of these 'granny's' may be packing heat! I too have sensed and have indeed being 'marked' in varied situations, mainly at gas stations or when I am walking.

In all cases I let the person[[s) know I was aware of their proximity. And they moved on. You cannot be polite as defined by: pretending their presence and pending actions are not happening. They must know you are AWARE!

Yet, being direct confrontational is to be avoided when possible [[unless you are ready). It's a delicate balance, in part from being careful, and watching your surroundings.

The pursuing criminal type is 'counting' on you being politically-correct-polite [[I refuse such such coyness and denial) as though what IS about to happen is NOT about to happen!

Usually when they see you are directly and distinctly aware of and responding to what is coming they move on to someone else.

This plan may have some legs, except for the uncomfortable fact that most of the Grandmothers around here are only 37 years old.

[Zacha341]

Yep, I felt that was what you mean as I've been there done that. Your response helped to change the outcome. Walking on 'pretending' it was not happening would have been a clear entry point. I am glad you and your friend are ok.

Let me be clear.

We turned and looked directly at them, but with NO malice nor judgement. I only wanted them to know we were aware of their actions...IF they had any intent. I never even STOPPED walking for the first couple of guys.

I 'confronted' nobody. Not a one of these fellows ever got nearer than ten feet from us, that last fellow was the closest. We had a pause in our trajectories of life, simple as that. But I DID see his expression, and knew exactly when he decided to move on. I saw it in his face, demeanor, and even his POSTURE.

[Bham1982]

If you really want to feel "marked" walk down Canal St. in NYC. I'm not sure that the street thieves in Detroit compare to some other cities.

You sure you have the right street?

Canal Street is probably one of the safest busy streets anywhere in North America. The western half is in super-luxury Tribeca, and the eastern half is in crazy busy but safe Chinatown. No urban toughs to be found anywhere.

The only "danger" is the insane traffic. Even the Chinatown counterfeit merchants have all been shut down.

Re. Detroit, I'm downtown all the time and have never felt "marked". I don't see that demographic [[probably mostly sullen teenage African American males in small groups) anywhere downtown.

Is this a recent trend? During evening hours, downtown seems very quiet, except for around casinos, some restaurants and "special events" [[stadia, festivals, etc.).

It always seemed to me that the "rough crowd" generally stayed out of downtown. There doesn't appear to be too much there for them. The only slightly unnerving folks were the older beggars/conmen that are probably Cass Corridor denizens. They're more sad than anything, and are obvious addicts.

[BrushStart]

I am definitely not trying to deflect, but I think it's important to consider the true scope of this problem, because it is certainly not exclusive to Detroit. It's happening in cities across America.

Take a look at this thread on City-Data regarding Chicago muggings downtown & in broad daylight: http://www.city-data.com/forum/chica...r-ogilvie.html

There is some kind of degeneration of societal values occurring, mainly a respect for human life, not only of the victim but of the offender. In order to mug someone for what could be less than $10, you have to have no respect for yourself or what happens to you. These "thugs" know that they could be killed or arrested in the process, yet they are undeterred. Guns and cops can't stop what man has created. The problem is systemic to our society itself and it's going to take change at the foundation for things to get better. The sooner we can stare this problem right in the face, the sooner we can get a grip on it.

[Gannon]

Hey! I stared the guy in the face.

I'm not going to grip him...ever. LOL



But yeah, I hear ya, Brush...you're absolutely right. It is systematic, and in some cases generational.


I may have to open-carry, then. I'm not going to get any concealed carry permit.


I believe we will truly have problems when they start moving in packs.


My Glock can only carry 18 bullets.


And YES, I'm kidding. If the city gets so bad that I start feeling like having my sidearm with me at all times...then it'll be enough. Plus, I usually only come down for music and food...and you cannot HAVE your weapon in establishments that serve liquor, if I remember my CCW classes correctly!

Funny, I think the law says bars, schools, and churches.


Cheers

[Gannon]

Detroit, I'm downtown all the time and have never felt "marked". I don't see that demographic [[probably mostly sullen teenage African American males in small groups) anywhere downtown.

Is this a recent trend? During evening hours, downtown seems very quiet, except for around casinos, some restaurants and "special events" [[stadia, festivals, etc.).

Exactly, that is why I started this thread.

I'm no stranger to downtown, but I've largely been away this past year. Each time I've come in for any reason, it seems to get weirder and weirder.


There have been places I avoided, five years ago is was Broadway north of Gratiot...which I was bummed to hear still has issues...and I was aware of the crap just west of Woodward on Larned and Congress. The no-man's land where the old bus terminus used to be at Capital Park was a randomly ugly place, which seemed to get better for a while...but has been uncomfortable lately.


Both my partner and I felt it last night...it might be the Full Moon linger or something other. I know we were close to an encounter with that last guy. I still don't know how it didn't get really bad...it was headed there. We talked about it again this morning.


So now I guess I'll start praying that we all don't become prey for these young vultures.


Sincerely,
John

[Gannon]

Gannon:

There was such a DPD unit - It was called S.T.R.E.S.S., you might have heard of it. Coleman Young used it to get elected Mayor.

It is time to bring it back. Stop The Robberies, Enjoy Safe Streets. I'm ALL for it, we don't have the same racial issues with a crusty and bitter all-white force busting heads because they could. That time is history now, thankfully.


Stop Them Even THINKING About Robbing Anyone...but S.T.E.T.A.R.A. just doesn't have the same ring to it.


A racially-neutral police decoy S.T.R.E.S.S. team is exactly what I'm calling for...thanks for the reminder!


Cheers

[Gistok]

John, I'm sure it wasn't a pleasant experience for you or your other half. Since we've met, you know I'm taller than you are.... at 6'4" I have to say that I've never been approached in any threatening manner. Yes panhandlers come up to me at times [[usually at gas stations)... but they're always polite, and when I say no, they always leave me alone.

The worst situation I've ever had was with someone with road rage... the guy cut me off, and pinned my car so I couldn't move.... I got out of my car with a scowl on my face.... and when he saw my size, he drove off faster than a bat out of hell....

People who are predators generally try for "easy pickin's".... and they won't find that with me...

It's just too bad that all the good people aren't over 6ft. tall....

[canuck]

I think though, and I'm no bleeding heart as comes to punks and the lowlife mentality, that the pistol packing on both sides of the track is a major problem in itself. The availability, the promotion of guns et cetera invites situations that emotionally unstable folks will manage to fuck up. Look at that dumb cluck of a postal worker who valiantly saved his daughter's honor by killing her landlord with one brave shot of his gun. He may have been 6ft 4 and yet might have avoided an altercation in the absence of a gun. Not sure. Just saying. It seems like this Bronson Eastwood attitude is typical of the punishing mentality that statistically puts the US at the top of the incarceration business and at the top of the offend and re-offend business too. Go figure how criminals are schooled and become more and more organized and ruthless over time.

[Gannon]

Funny, I think the law says bars, schools, and churches.

...and governmental offices. Forgot about that one.


I've always wondered why our governmental offices have had to become fortresses, both here and abroad. I'm thinking a government "of the people, for the people" shouldn't need to be so isolated FROM the people...there is a fundamental problem with that.



As for this 'stalking' issue, I wonder if a civilian volunteer 'suspicious-behavior' task force could work?! Something outside of the 911 emergency system...gads, I could see this working with the publicized parking meter patrols as eyes and ears for the officers with firepower and authority to contain individuals.

We'll have to let petty drug offenders out of prison first to make room for these thugs, though. They are surely not all the same.

Cheers!

[Vox]

...and governmental offices. Forgot about that one.


I've always wondered why our governmental offices have had to become fortresses, both here and abroad. I'm thinking a government "of the people, for the people" shouldn't need to be so isolated FROM the people...there is a fundamental problem with that.



As for this 'stalking' issue, I wonder if a civilian volunteer 'suspicious-behavior' task force could work?! Something outside of the 911 emergency system...gads, I could see this working with the publicized parking meter patrols as eyes and ears for the officers with firepower and authority to contain individuals.

We'll have to let petty drug offenders out of prison first to make room for these thugs, though. They are surely not all the same.

Cheers!

A civilian patrol can't have police powers. The citizens patrol could be a deterrent of sorts. It is used in other places to quell crime.
Eyes and ears are always a good thing. Clearly marked patrol vehicles with police radio capability could help. But not to directly stop crime.