Alberto Gonzales Authorized Torture: NBC

Lorax · May-21-09, 08:14 PM

This just in: Alberto Gonzales, as George Bush's personal attorney, before becoming Attorney General of the United States, personally authorized waterboarding and other "enhanced interrogation" techniques BEFORE they were allowed to be enacted by the CIA, hiring a contractor named James Mitchell to carry out torture on Abu Zabaeda, thus becoming the de facto policy of the Bush Administration in 2002, months before anyone in congress including Nancy Pelosi were even aware of it.

Proving what was a well-known secret all along, that the executive branch had Alberto Gonzales as a counsel to the president, clairify the new definition of torture, or "enhanced interrogation" as "up to and including organ failure" and waterboarding as "controlled drowning" as the official policy of this government, against our laws, and in direct violation of the US Constitution.

Source: NBC news./ Ari Shapiro for NPR

**Detroitej72** · May-21-09, 10:32 PM

Neo-cons wont be talking about this, since they wont hear it on FauxNews, or any of the other ditto head shows, which is their only outlet for news.

**mjs** · May-21-09, 11:09 PM

As of this moment, nor cnn nor nbc nor pbs nor bbc . . . We're you listening to "America Now"? America is responsible for this, America is responsible for that. Everytime I hear it, it reminds me of Radio Free Hanoi.

**Detroitej72** · May-21-09, 11:14 PM

Thats a great argument for listening to NPR. You get the facts, no spin.

**oladub** · May-21-09, 11:22 PM

Sounds like a crime worth prosecuting. Does Attorney General Holder plan to prosecute or does the admistration intend to become complicit by looking the other way?

**smogboy** · May-22-09, 12:03 AM

Originally Posted by Detroitej72

Thats a great argument for listening to NPR. You get the facts, no spin.

I personally don't think there's any spin put on by NPR but for the people that disagree or want to spin it in their own way, they think NPR is a mouthpiece for the left.

I miss the days when there was something akin to a neutral trusted news source. I think NPR comes close but again, someone's liable to disagree with me.

**mjs** · May-22-09, 01:25 AM

I generally see NPR as a solid neutral news source, but "America Now" is an exception. That wasn't really my point.

My point was that I can't find a single reliable link to confirm this story, not even on NPR itself. It was a criticism on how some people just write things as fact without actually making the effort to prove they know what they're talking about. Some people on here mention a story or fact that others can't read or hear and then claim a nonresponse as some sort of victory. Post a link so everyone can see what you're talking about for crying out loud. It is possible Lorax misunderstood the entire report.

**Big Dog** · May-22-09, 05:13 AM

Your quote above, "It was a criticism on how some people just write things as fact without actually making the effort to prove they know what they're talking about." Is exactly what Glen Beck admitted doing on his shows. He said he is a commentator and does not check to see what he says is factual or not. So goes his credibility. I think several others on Fux, do likewise.

Stosh · May-22-09, 07:12 AM

A simple Google News search with the terms "Alberto Gonzales" turned up a link to this story:

http://washingtonindependent.com/439...nzales-say-yes
Which had a link to the NPR story:
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/s...ryId=104350361

**mjs** · May-22-09, 10:40 AM

I was hoping to see the thread starter post what he was referring to, but lets assume you guessed right.

First thing I see is an accusation by a terrorists 's attorney, not a judicial finding or even a congressional finding. I think I heard somewhere something about innocent until proven guilty. I've even heard and agreed with arguments that innocent until proven guilty is a reason why torture is banned. "Soufan told senators of describing Zubaydah's treatment to FBI supervisors as "borderline torture"" with borderline defined as "an indeterminate position between two conditions." Furthermore, none of the methods he listed are the "enhanced interrogation methods" described in the memos. Hell, the only listed method thats not common in your local police station is the nudity.

So, we know that CIA talked with Zubaydah's interrogators. I hoped as much since intelligence gathering is the central part of the Central Intelligence Agency. I also hope Bush may have even cared enough to be briefed on it and he may have talked to Gonzales about it. I fail to understand how this lead to a conclusion that "Alberto Gonzales . . . personally authorized waterboarding and other "enhanced interrogation" techniques BEFORE they were allowed to be enacted by the CIA."

This is why I prefer to hear the news itself rather than an editorial of it. Still liking PBS and NPR for stating the facts rather than misleading sensationalized headlines loosely realted to the facts.

Lorax · May-22-09, 10:41 AM

I provided the sources, what's everyone's problem?

Go look it up yourself.

Ari Shapiro broke the story- NPR aired it, all NBC affiliates, including MSNBC devoted time to it.

Why would I bother pulling a Glenda Beck on everyone, you must have me confused with people who work for FUXED NEWS

Oh, and by the way, just because the justice department doesn't act immediately on crimes committed by past administrations, doesn't mean they didn't happen, eventhough we have mountains of evidence proving it.

If Eric Holder chooses not to pursue indictments, then justince is not served. Bush's justice department chose not to prosecute itself- doesn't mean crimes weren't committed.

Politics is the real enemy here, we will self-destruct as a nation from within, no terrorist, no matter how determined will ever bring down this country, we will do it ourselves.

**mjs** · May-22-09, 11:05 AM

Originally Posted by Lorax

I provided the sources, what's everyone's problem?

This is a source that can be found and discussed: http://www.npr.org/templates/story/s...ryId=104350361
This is not: NBC news./ Ari Shapiro for NPR.

Originally Posted by Lorax

Go look it up yourself.

It was your thread! You really believe you have no obligation to look it up before referencing it? Haven't any teachers ever called you on this? I tried to look it up and didn't find anything that seemed to say what you had said the story stated.

Originally Posted by Lorax

Oh, and by the way, just because the justice department doesn't act immediately on crimes committed by past administrations, doesn't mean they didn't happen. . .

Bush's justice department chose not to prosecute itself- doesn't mean crimes weren't committed.

I agree 100% percent but I fail to understand how it proves that crimes were commited or that "Alberto Gonzales . . . personally authorized waterboarding and other "enhanced interrogation" techniques BEFORE they were allowed to be enacted by the CIA."

**mjs** · May-22-09, 12:45 PM

Originally Posted by Lorax

Why would I bother pulling a Glenda Beck on everyone, you must have me confused with people who work for FUXED NEWS.

I have no idea why you would pull a Glenn Beck. I do know I consider one man's factless commentary as bad as another's and lose respect for the neutrality of anyone that bases their arguments on name calling.

ccbatson · May-22-09, 05:38 PM

Guys...Pelosi/congress can't be briefed before something happens, can they?

Lorax · May-22-09, 05:54 PM

I did post the reference, guess you can't read.

And, yes, NBC carried it on all of their affiliated stations, I WATCHED IT MYSELF ON MSNBC. AND I SAW IT ON OUR NBC LOCAL AFFILIATE. Guess you need boldface type to see it.

Lorax · May-22-09, 05:56 PM

Originally Posted by ccbatson

Guys...Pelosi/congress can't be briefed before something happens, can they?

My point exactly, Pelosi was briefed on what may happen, and at that time they were already torturing people.

ccbatson · May-22-09, 05:58 PM

No, she was briefed about legality and what had been done...it was at least 2 separate occasions.

Lorax · May-22-09, 06:00 PM

Originally Posted by mjs

I have no idea why you would pull a Glenn Beck. I do know I consider one man's factless commentary as bad as another's and lose respect for the neutrality of anyone that bases their arguments on name calling.

This coming from someone who cant read what I wrote in simple, easy to understand terms.

Since when is my commentary factless?

I guess you've decided to drink the KoolAid as Beck has.

Since when was my position neutral? I never claimed to be neutral on anything. I am relaying a FACT transposed through the media. It just happens to coincide with my thoughts on the subject going back to 2002. Guess I was right not to trust republicans with anything more than getting the door.

Lorax · May-22-09, 06:02 PM

Originally Posted by ccbatson

No, she was briefed about legality and what had been done...it was at least 2 separate occasions.

Wrong again, Batts.

Briefed once, and only on what may take place, and that the legality was begin looked into. And it was months after torture was already taking place. What's so hard about understanding this? It's been laid out there dozens of times, is your memory that short, or do you just want to believe lies?

Lorax · May-22-09, 06:05 PM

Originally Posted by mjs

This is a source that can be found and discussed: http://www.npr.org/templates/story/s...ryId=104350361
This is not: NBC news./ Ari Shapiro for NPR.

It was your thread! You really believe you have no obligation to look it up before referencing it? Haven't any teachers ever called you on this? I tried to look it up and didn't find anything that seemed to say what you had said the story stated.

I agree 100% percent but I fail to understand how it proves that crimes were commited or that "Alberto Gonzales . . . personally authorized waterboarding and other "enhanced interrogation" techniques BEFORE they were allowed to be enacted by the CIA."

More was available from the Rachel Maddow Show on MSNBC. She even interviewed Ari Shapiro, who broke the story.

Instead of attacking me, at least let me fantasize that you would give my reporting the benefit of the doubt, even WITH references, before siding with a criminal.

**mjs** · May-22-09, 06:54 PM

Originally Posted by Lorax

I am relaying a FACT transposed through the media.

To quote your subject statement for a third time, "Alberto Gonzales . . . personally authorized waterboarding and other "enhanced interrogation" techniques BEFORE they were allowed to be enacted by the CIA."

Since I'm asking a third time, I'll rephrase. How does testimony that "a CIA contractor used nudity, sleep deprivation, loud noise and extreme temperatures during interrogations" relay approval of waterboarding or what the memos discuss as enhanced interrogation?

Lorax · May-22-09, 07:47 PM

Originally Posted by mjs

To quote your subject statement for a third time, "Alberto Gonzales . . . personally authorized waterboarding and other "enhanced interrogation" techniques BEFORE they were allowed to be enacted by the CIA."

Since I'm asking a third time, I'll rephrase. How does testimony that "a CIA contractor used nudity, sleep deprivation, loud noise and extreme temperatures during interrogations" relay approval of waterboarding or what the memos discuss as enhanced interrogation?

For the fourth time, you obivously didn't watch any of the TV coverage, sorry, I can't help you beyond that.

Gonzales authorized it as counsel to the president, he wasn't even AG at the time. His advice was taken and used. The dirty work was relegated to a defense contractor. What more do you need to see? Photos? Geez.

**mjs** · May-22-09, 08:35 PM

You're right, I didn't read the NPR clip or the commentary of it in the world renowned Washington Independent or listen to the full NPR audio or watch the lefts version of Glenn Beck. I just had a lucky guess that they all reported the fact that the exact tactics listed by the witness were "nudity, sleep deprivation, loud noise and extreme temperatures". These are not water boarding or enhanced interrogation.

Sometimes I wonder if you're just pretending to have these view points. The left wing version of Stephen Colbert. The Lorax Report.

Lorax · May-23-09, 08:42 AM

Originally Posted by mjs

You're right, I didn't read the NPR clip or the commentary of it in the world renowned Washington Independent or listen to the full NPR audio or watch the lefts version of Glenn Beck. I just had a lucky guess that they all reported the fact that the exact tactics listed by the witness were "nudity, sleep deprivation, loud noise and extreme temperatures". These are not water boarding or enhanced interrogation.

Sometimes I wonder if you're just pretending to have these view points. The left wing version of Stephen Colbert. The Lorax Report.

Now I know where you're really coming from. You've swallowed the Rethugnican Reich's mantra, and washed it down with the fascist flavored KoolAid.

Too bad. You really had some of us wondering too, since you're pretty good at posting in sheep's clothing.

Basically you've written off the sourcing on this story, but I'll bet if it showed up on FLOCKED NEWS you'd be the #1 cheerleader for it.

You know, you really can think for yourself it you try. Maybe.

**mjs** · May-23-09, 09:15 AM

Says the guy that thinks Barack Obama is as right leaning as Ronald Reagan.

The only time I listen to Fox News or Rachel Maddow is to see how things are being spun. Fox News: The news you watch when the news isn't what you want. My main source, PBS, has been categorized by the Republican party as being far left.

So, like so many others that spin the news, you refuse to answer direct questions like how "nudity, sleep deprivation, loud noise and extreme temperatures" are "waterboarding and other 'enhanced interrogation' techniques".