Killing Pontiac to save Pontiac.

**brizee** · June-11-11, 09:47 PM

http://www.theoaklandpress.com/artic...5918823511.txt

What a screwed up little area we have here.

**R8RBOB** · June-11-11, 10:09 PM

For years L. Brooks Patterson worried that a bankrupted Detroit would wipe away OC's AAA rating. Now, Oakland County is on the verge of losing that AAA rating because of a city in their county, in fact the seat of Oakland County and Brooks don't want to do anything to save Pontiac. I read someone that if Birmingham was close to bankruptcy, Brooks would do what he could to help B'ham.

**gnome** · June-11-11, 10:24 PM

Sources? Links?

Or just speculumtation?

**Hypestyles** · June-11-11, 11:06 PM

sheesh, what a tool.. these are people's lives, here, patterson, who gives a rip about a bond-rating on paper.. he can't retire fast enough..

**j to the jeremy** · June-11-11, 11:09 PM

LBP= individual racism as systematic racism

That being said, at least he's open to some form of regionalization???

**Zimm** · June-11-11, 11:31 PM

Originally Posted by Hypestyles

sheesh, what a tool.. these are people's lives, here, patterson, who gives a rip about a bond-rating on paper.. he can't retire fast enough..

i care. i don't have millions to give to LBP to compensate for the additional costs the county will incur when it's debt rating falls from AAA to AA. i don't think he does either.

for years, LBP has pushed the pols running pontiac to adopt better financial practices. the idiot pols and the idiot electorate of pontiac dismissed ol' racist brooksie and they got what they deserved. who didn't see this coming?

this is a great opportunity for the city of detroit to welcome any pontiac residents who choose to walk from their nearly worthless homes in mad max times to come to experience detroit's nearly worthless homes in only slightly less mad max times.

**313WX** · June-11-11, 11:43 PM

HA!!! I guess we know where the freep posters come from now.

**Zacha341** · June-12-11, 01:11 AM

Mad max times indeed!

Originally Posted by Zimm

...this is a great opportunity for the city of detroit to welcome any pontiac residents who choose to walk from their nearly worthless homes in mad max times to come to experience detroit's nearly worthless homes in only slightly less mad max times.

**luckycar** · June-12-11, 04:04 AM

Pontiac is far from mad maxville.A few areas look like the eastside of the D.The clownsil is minor league compared to Detroit.Its always been a gritty industrial town surrounded by wealth.LBP is correct that the laws won't allow any merger/takeover.Besides,where would the money come from?I think the financial manager from the state is talking out his ass,he just is throwing crap against the wall.However all this back and forth doesn't change the debt that Pontiac is in.

**DetroitPlanner** · June-12-11, 06:48 AM

A county is not a city or township. They have a different role in Michigan. Some states have unincorporated areas outside of cities where the County is the primary provider of local services, but in Michigan that is not the case.

At best you would need to change laws at the State in order to make this happen. While Brooks is a Republican he is seen by outstaters as a Detroiter and this would be seen by Republican Reps from outside as more money going to Detroit and not thier constituency. A lot of them would not like the precident either that this sets. Brooks sure would not like the precident as it means that other communities in Oakland County may just fold too. I can see that easily happening with Royal Oak Twp, Oak Park, Hazel Park, Troy, and Madison Heights just to name a few.

We may be at a presipice for real change here where Cities will become like neighborhoods in this State.

**Autoracks** · June-12-11, 09:23 AM

As long as i can remember Pontiac has been a bit rough around the edges but recently I was out on that side of town and was surprised to see how Huron looked. Especially between downtown and Telegraph. It doesn't even seem too long ago when Pontiac had a pulse, especially the downtown areas. Its a shame really. A couple of not so unrealistic things could have occurred that would have resulted in a stable/lively Pontiac or atleast downtown area.

**Wesley Mouch** · June-12-11, 10:22 AM

Originally Posted by DetroitPlanner

...We may be at a presipice for real change here where Cities will become like neighborhoods in this State.

I believe in Ontario all cities are really just small arms of the Province [[State).

This has allowed 'real change'. When the Government of Ontario decides a city will amalgamate or share services, it happens. They happily function, unionized and liberal [[by our standards).

**DetroitPlanner** · June-12-11, 10:32 AM

Originally Posted by Wesley Mouch

I believe in Ontario all cities are really just small arms of the Province [[State).

This has allowed 'real change'. When the Government of Ontario decides a city will amalgamate or share services, it happens. They happily function, unionized and liberal [[by our standards).

Its not all peaches and cream. For example, there might as well be a wall around the City of Windsor as it is its own governmental unit totally separate from the County of Essex. Not even the Schools coordinate with the Windsor School Board and the County School Board.

Amalgamation is a step in a rationale direction, but you need to have everyone on board with the amalgamation for it to happen. Thats how we got Sarnia/Lambton and Chatham Kent. You don't see that in Essex with several communities amalamating into Amherstburg, Windsor standing alone and a few other oddities.

Best example we have of rationalization is Grosse Pointe Shores. Up until a few years ago there was a Grosse Pointe Township, a Lake Township, and a Village. By law a Village must have a township that provides some level of services. Cities do not need to have townships and are considered a different animal. All three had thier own boards. The citzens grew weary of this and now it is a City that straddles the county border. This eliminated two boards at the township level.

**professorscott** · June-12-11, 11:20 AM

Originally Posted by DetroitPlanner

A county is not a city or township. They have a different role in Michigan. Some states have unincorporated areas outside of cities where the County is the primary provider of local services, but in Michigan that is not the case.

At best you would need to change laws at the State in order to make this happen. While Brooks is a Republican he is seen by outstaters as a Detroiter and this would be seen by Republican Reps from outside as more money going to Detroit and not thier constituency. A lot of them would not like the precident either that this sets. Brooks sure would not like the precident as it means that other communities in Oakland County may just fold too. I can see that easily happening with Royal Oak Twp, Oak Park, Hazel Park, Troy, and Madison Heights just to name a few.

We may be at a presipice for real change here where Cities will become like neighborhoods in this State.

Amen, brother, but it would require a constitutional amendment. Home rule is killing us with a thousand tiny knives, and it must go. Ontario is not bad as a model: amalgamate where it can be done, and not where it can't. So all of former Kent County is the Municipality of Chatham-Kent, whereas in Essex County there are still political subdivisions.

The silly argument that always gets posited when you bring this up is something like "Grosse Pointe will never merge with Detroit!" To which my answer is, of course not; but why couldn't many of the communities in the former Township of Royal Oak, of which there are about a dozen, merge? Or Farmington with Farmington Hills, several downriver communities, the possibilities are myriad... but not under the current Michigan constitution.

**GOAT** · June-12-11, 12:33 PM

When amalgamation was going on in Ontario Windsor was the last area to be looked at. Unfortunately by that time the bickering between feifdoms had wore the gov't down and Windsor/essex was allowed [[and I believe the only region) to stay the way it was. It has been a detriment to Windsor [[hemmed in by suburbs just like Detroit) ever since. But the county feifdoms were allowed to expand...imagine that!

**Novine** · June-12-11, 01:08 PM

"why couldn't many of the communities in the former Township of Royal Oak, of which there are about a dozen, merge? Or Farmington with Farmington Hills, several downriver communities, the possibilities are myriad... but not under the current Michigan constitution."

Communities can merge into one consolidated community today if they wanted. But as a rule, communities won't merge unless they absolutely have to as was the case in Battle Creek and Iron River in the UP, which are the only recent examples of multi-community "mergers". Farmington Hills and Farmington started talking about a merger a couple of years ago but Farmington pulled the plug on the plan after residents started voicing opposition to the idea. Lots of people give lip service to the benefits of merging but when it comes to their own community, when given a choice and a vote, voters rarely support such plans.

**Danny** · June-12-11, 01:34 PM

This is familiar! Detroit is broke! R.O.T. is broke! Inkster is broke! Flint is broke! Now Pontiac is broke! All of these cities have in common that is mostly black and have black city leaders and black city workers running the show. Some folks will question about the way blacks running American cities, townships and villages. How are they running their tax dollars is a enigma. State, federal and county governments have watched their every move and the media has posted their troubles in their news. It's part of the 'RACE CARDS' and a 'BLACK THING' being played between blacks and whites for years.

If a white dominate city like 'ALLEN PARK' is broke, white dominate city council and its workers will their problem solving attitude.

Why can black city leaders like PONTIAC solve their own problems? Maybe because some of them may take the city dollars and run away. It a pity the Pontiac may have to merge its municipal services with Oakland County otherwise the city will find itself join Synder, THE NERD's EFM goon squad inc.

WORD FROM THE STREET PROPHET

What a mess Pontiac had been through.

NEDA, I MISS YOU SO.

**Detroitnerd** · June-16-11, 10:34 AM

http://detnews.com/article/20110616/...s-nearly-broke

Good ol' LBP. He spent years crowing about how "sprawl" equals "growth" and beaming with pride about Oakland County's wealth. Basically, he could have sat in his office, done nothing, and enjoyed his great reputation. When it comes to actually governing and taking on challenges, he appears to be a dead stick.

"If there's going to be any correction done it's going to be at the state level," Patterson said, adding that Pontiac should consider outsourcing city services to nearby communities until the city gets back on its feet.
In addition, Patterson offered Pontiac the assistance of the county's finance and technology teams, reiterating that the county will not take over the city.
"The county has been there for you and we'll continue to be there for you, but there are certain places I can't go," Patterson told the crowd. "I can't do mergers. That's a huge debt I can't take on."

It also sounds, at this point, as if the EFM situation is creating more confusion than it's solving. And there's that "lack of transparency" rearing its head, as when an EFM doesn't return calls from the press.

Pontiac Mayor Leon Jukowski said he is in no position to accept Patterson's offer of assistance.
"The emergency manager controls that," said Jukowski, who is against a city-county merger. "I am cut out. I don't have the authority to issue any kinds of orders."
Pontiac Emergency Manager Michael Stampfler did not attend and did not return calls.

**Richard** · June-16-11, 11:31 AM

Well you have to give them some credit.

They have a fully functioning city web site that is up to date.

The downtown price per sqft is equal to Detroit in both rental and sales and the properties are not stripped and trashed.

The city population is diversified and not leaning heavy to one side.

They have a diversified local economy not dependent on one industry.

Staff Accomplishments seem pretty reasonable and obtainable goals.

Out of a labor force of 33,000 there are only 2,000 unemployed.

Average age is 30 .

Seems like if they can get through this it may be a nice little city in the near future.

Based on their city website. http://www.pontiac.mi.us/about/index.html

**mjb3** · June-16-11, 09:51 PM

In the DNews article, Patterson is quoted as saying "we won't allow them into bankruptcy" and that Snyder is in agreement. This is the same line Granholm used against Hamtramck request for bankruptcy.

Why are they so adamant against letting a city file when it is the only sane financial move. Hamtramck had 87 employees supporting 320 retirees. It doesn't take a genius to figure out they are just kicking the can. I'm sure Pontiac's numbers are just as crappy. These pensions will never be paid out[[maybe by PBGC) and the cities know the numbers are upside down.

Why can't the state just let them file bk and readjust their contracts and legacy costs.

bartock · June-16-11, 10:24 PM

Originally Posted by mjb3

In the DNews article, Patterson is quoted as saying "we won't allow them into bankruptcy" and that Snyder is in agreement. This is the same line Granholm used against Hamtramck request for bankruptcy.

Why are they so adamant against letting a city file when it is the only sane financial move. Hamtramck had 87 employees supporting 320 retirees. It doesn't take a genius to figure out they are just kicking the can. I'm sure Pontiac's numbers are just as crappy. These pensions will never be paid out[[maybe by PBGC) and the cities know the numbers are upside down.

Why can't the state just let them file bk and readjust their contracts and legacy costs.

Bond ratings.