Privatized trash pickup weighed in Detroit

[begingri]

Unions slam proposal to cut costs by $14 million a year

Darren A. Nichols/ The Detroit News

Detroit— The city's population spiral has Mayor Dave Bing seriously considering privatizing garbage collection to improve collections and save cash.

The proposal, which could save nearly $14 million a year, is one of several in the city's five-year deficit elimination plan. The plan could free up money for core services like public safety and improve operations to attract more residents to a city whose population fell 25 percent since 2000 to 713,777.

"I don't think we have a view as to whether sanitation should be run by union or nonunion," Detroit Chief Operating Officer Chris Brown said. "What we have a view on is how we get the most efficient use of our dollars as a consumer.

"If you have a density problem and a garbage truck is only picking up one or two per block, you're thinking to yourself how you optimize that. You're trying to figure out how to get more density in certain areas and how do you serve people better at a lower cost. That's what we're after."

Union leaders object to the idea and say there's no evidence private companies could do a better job. Worse, private firms could cut corners or be open to corruption — such as the infamous 2007 bribery-tainted sludge hauling contract to Synagro Technologies Inc.

That deal has since been canceled.

City officials have been looking at ways to overhaul garbage operations, particularly since population declines have complicated collections in the 139-square-mile city. Garbage tonnage has dropped by 13 percent over the last year and 38 percent in the last five years.

The system is also beset with numerous problems, including dozens of trucks out of commission at any time and uncollected fees. About 30 percent of a controversial $240 fee homeowners pay for pickup is uncollected — adding up to as much as $20 million a year, according to an audit of the system.

The audit suggests the city should reroute trucks to save $3 million to $7 million; reduce the frequency of bulk collection to save $3 million to $4 million; and eliminate service to commercial businesses to save $1 million.

"We're not the ultimate employer, we're a service provider," Brown said. "We just don't have the money. If you don't have the revenue, you have to figure out which one of those [[core) resources you're going to spend it on, [[such as) public safety and things that historically are required to stay in government."

Many cities such as Indianapolis, San Diego and San Francisco already have outside companies collect garbage. So do many Metro Detroit communities such as Westland, Northville, Novi, Bloomfield Township, Farmington, Sterling Heights and Warren.

http://detnews.com/article/20110610/...#ixzz1Ot9wCqq1

[tkelly1986]

"Union leaders object to the idea and say there's no evidence private companies could do a better job. Worse, private firms could cut corners or be open to corruption — such as the infamous 2007 bribery-tainted sludge hauling contract to Synagro Technologies Inc"

Right, because Unions always act ethically and have never been accused of corruption.

[Rocko]

This guy Rice sounds like an idiot:

Many cities such as Indianapolis, San Diego and San Francisco already have outside companies collect garbage. So do many Metro Detroit communities such as Westland, Northville, Novi, Bloomfield Township, Farmington, Sterling Heights and Warren.

But Roger Rice, president of AFSCME Local 229, said outsourcing won't work in Detroit.

"I do not see how they could possibly privatize solid waste pickup," said Rice, whose local represents about 100 mechanics who work on about 3,000 city solid waste trucks.

"Privatizing garbage collection is not a good idea. [[It's) just the size of the city. Even downsizing the city doesn't work."

Rice has a number of questions about the proposal, including who will handle street maintenance, snow plowing and street sweeping.

"That could be a political dagger to anybody. If they do it, they would be tied to it for eternity," Rice said. "There would be no getting out, and the vendor can charge them what they want. You can't go out and buy a fleet of garbage trucks."

From The Detroit News: http://detnews.com/article/20110610/...#ixzz1OtAsbeyV

Well, all these other cities seem to make contracted trash pickup work. That's what it is, a CONTRACT. That means the contractor can't just change what they want to do on a whim. Rice ought to know....I'm sure he'll fight tooth and nail for their contract with the city....if the city stopped honoring it, chances are he'd have something else [[equally profound) to say.

In Dearborn, trash pickup is handled by a contractor. Street sweeping, plowing and maintenance is handled by the Department of Public Works [[A Sign of Progress!!). It's worked out well for years and years.

WHY IS IT all these other places can do it but Detroit can't? Incompetent people like Rice have a say in the show. The end.

[Ray1936]

The Las Vegas valley -- which includes Henderson, North Las Vegas, and Clark County -- have had privatized pickup since day one. The service is excellent. Our bill is $40 quarterly, and get trash pickups twice a week, along with recycle pickup every other week. Special pickups can be easily scheduled at no extra charge.

I've often wondered why Detroit didn't go to such a system years ago.

[Detroitnerd]

Don't like corruption? Government services delivered by government shouldn't have graft and should be held to high standards.

But privatization is less about "saving money" and more of a way to bust unions and legalize and systematize graft.

[Richard]

With private pick-up there is a higher level of accountability verses you get what I give you ,but on the other hand I have seen some really nicely run city services so I guess it depends on the citizens,if they are not happy with service provided changes need to be made one way or the other.

[Crew]

Besides Detroit, what other area cities don't have private trash collection? Even Pontiac uses an outside contractor now.

[Detroitnerd]

As a Detroit resident, I am satisfied with my trash collection. I thing it's bogus that Kwame tacked on a $300 "collection fee" [[don't my taxes already pay for this?) but they have never missed a pickup and don't leave a mess.

[preserve]

I cannot complain at all about trash being picked up on time in my neighborhood. I have had to complain about the yard waste pick up in the past,but that seems to have resolved.
I do hate having to pay $$$ for bulk pickup, cause I just don't have any. I'd much rather have a pay if you need it system. The commercial properties around here, especially the lofts, that have private haulers don't seem to get their monies worth. Trash is everywhere and I don't see any signs that they get bulk pickup from the amount of discarded furniture left outside the dumpsters.

[Detroitnerd]

Bulk pickup is a few times a year.

[Hermod]

Bulk pickup is a few times a year.

Our city uses a trash contractor.

Pickup is twice weekly.

Recycling is picked up once a week by a special truck.

If you have bulk trash, you just put it out on trash days. If it is too large for the normal trash pickup truck, they radio in for a special truck with a claw that picks up yard waste or old furniture /appliances and will come the same day.

Any problems, you call dept of Public Works and the little lady there cheerfully promises to take care of it and within an hour or two, a special truck shows up to fix the problem.

As President Franklin D. Roosevelt noted in the late 1930s, public employee unions are against the public interest.

[Novine]

The author of the article is mixing up the various forms of private service in the suburbs. Here in Novi, all of the garbage pick-up is done by private firms but it's not under a contract with the city. Generally, each subdivision contracts with a company but there's nothing that says you have to go with a specific company. That means in some areas, you have 3 or 4 companies coming through picking up trash at various times of the week. In Northville, the city itself contracts with one firm for trash pick-up. I don't know if you're allowed to contract with a different company if you don't like the company the city selected. The articles lumps the two together as the same kind of service but it's not.

"Rice has a number of questions about the proposal, including who will handle street maintenance, snow plowing and street sweeping."

In some cities, the people who do garbage pick-up get pressed into service to assist with snow plowing and other activities. It sounds like this is the case in Detroit. Mr. Rice appears to be asking who's going to fill that gap if the people who do garbage pick-up are no longer available to pitch in when needed.

[Detroitnerd]

Our city uses a trash contractor.

Pickup is twice weekly.

Recycling is picked up once a week by a special truck.

If you have bulk trash, you just put it out on trash days. If it is too large for the normal trash pickup truck, they radio in for a special truck with a claw that picks up yard waste or old furniture /appliances and will come the same day.

I don't really think Detroit needs twice-weekly pickup. I live in a duplex that shares one bin and we don't generate enough to fill it unless we both do spring cleaning at the same time. Curbside recycling would be nice, but we don't have it. [[Our plastics and paper are "recycled" into "energy" )

As for bulk pickup, it used to be all the time. They'd just come and pick it up. It was only a few years ago under Kwame they limited it to a few times a year.

Really, the service is not so bad. I've never had to complain.

As President Franklin D. Roosevelt noted in the late 1930s, public employee unions are against the public interest.

You're taking a slender statement out of context, aren't you?

The desire of Government employees for fair and adequate pay, reasonable hours of work, safe and suitable working conditions, development of opportunities for advancement, facilities for fair and impartial consideration and review of grievances, and other objectives of a proper employee relations policy, is basically no different from that of employees in private industry. Organization on their part to present their views on such matters is both natural and logical, but meticulous attention should be paid to the special relationships and obligations of public servants to the public itself and to the Government. [. . .]
Particularly, I want to emphasize my conviction that militant tactics have no place in the functions of any organization of Government employees. Upon employees in the Federal service rests the obligation to serve the whole people, whose interests and welfare require orderliness and continuity in the conduct of Government activities. This obligation is paramount. Since their own services have to do with the functioning of the Government, a strike of public employees manifests nothing less than an intent on their part to prevent or obstruct the operations of Government until their demands are satisfied. Such action, looking toward the paralysis of Government by those who have sworn to support it, is unthinkable and intolerable. It is, therefore, with a feeling of gratification that I have noted in the constitution of the National Federation of Federal Employees the provision that “under no circumstances shall this Federation engage in or support strikes against the United States Government.”

[rjk]

^So what about the 14 million in savings?
In every city that I've lived in they've had privitized garbage pick up and I've never had any problems.
It's not all that complicated. All they have to do is remember the two ups. Show up and pick up.

[Detroitnerd]

Oh, yes. $14 million is savings. By breaking the union. And then hiring the work force back at less pay, b because they have to show those savings and still take money off the top. And the costs of people working for less money are passed on to the community, the books look good, and there are these totally unnecessary middlemen skimming off the top. In any other situation, it would be called what is basically is GRAFT. Let us legally take our GRAFT, and we'll pummel the workers and give you some token savings.

Or, down the road, maybe not. There are a lot of "costs" to pass on in a business, and the books can't be easily investigated.

[Detroitej72]

Honestly, I never had any complaints with the trash pick up when I lived in Detroit, in fact it was probably one of the better run services the city provided. Here in Hamtramck, we have a private company that picks up our trash, and again, I have no complaints. The difference is our city saves a hell of a lot more than if we had to maintain our own equipment.

The main problem with the government employee unions that I see is they think the city's job is to provide them with employment, not service to the residents. I have experienced all too often those city employees with an attitude who treat me as if I am an inconvenience in their day. All to many seem to forget their job is to assist the citizens and take care of their needs.

[rjk]

Honestly, I never had any complaints with the trash pick up when I lived in Detroit, in fact it was probably one of the better run services the city provided. Here in Hamtramck, we have a private company that picks up our trash, and again, I have no complaints. The difference is our city saves a hell of a lot more than if we had to maintain our own equipment.

Who's responsible for emptying the garbage cans along Joseph Compau?
I shop there quite often and the garbage cans always seem like they're overflowing with litter.

[Detroitnerd]

Honestly, I never had any complaints with the trash pick up when I lived in Detroit, in fact it was probably one of the better run services the city provided. ...

The main problem with the government employee unions that I see is they think the city's job is to provide them with employment, not service to the residents.

I don't understand. You've just said that the services were top-notch. Then you claim that the unionized work force doesn't provide service to residents? I'm getting whiplash ...

[fryar]

The complaints about unionized municipal employees are probably applicable, but I don't have great confidence in there not being graft with private contractors, either. Municipal employees I would not be surprised to learn are coddled vs. business owners I would not be surprised to hear of treating government officials to junkets and otherwise undermining the integrity of the remaining public apparatus.

Pick your poison. Maybe it is more important that you have transparency and audits, no matter which path you choose.

Conceivably, the approach where subdivisions are the units issuing contracts could work. These entities are probably small enough that there is relatively little scope for major influence peddling. Course, you'd have to organize them first.

[Al Publican]

Weigh over due. And, yes, Virginia. That is a pun.

[Ray1936]

Lot of subtle finger-pointing at unions on this thread.

Please remember: Union benefits are ONLY those that management has agreed to. If there should be some excessive salaries or benefits somewhere, blame MANAGEMENT, not the unions, for agreeing to it.

Labor Relations 101, people.

[oldredfordette]

Thank you, Ray.

[BVos]

I agree that garbage is one of the better services in Detroit. Other than one worker one time a few years ago who, on bulk pickup day, was a complete ass and made a mess all over and refused to clean it up, my experience has been that it works like clock work - they pick it up when they're supposed to and rarely are there complaints.

One thing to consider with Detroit is that there are very few private companies out there who would have the capacity, equipment wise and financially, to take on a contract in Detroit. The local cities that contract out garbage are considerably smaller than Detroit so they have a few companies that bid and that keep prices competitive.

Cities comparable in size to Detroit often split up the city into districts and bid out each district separately. In Minneapolis the city garbage truck drivers actually won the bid for two of their four districts and a private company won the other two districts.

Even with districting up the city, I can think of only one company that would likely have the capacity to take on a Detroit contract [[Waste Management) so Detroit may not get competitive pricing as the union official states. Now if Detroit put garbage out to bid and allowed the existing department/union bid in addition to the private cos., that could be interesting.

[Wesley Mouch]

Lot of subtle finger-pointing at unions on this thread.

Please remember: Union benefits are ONLY those that management has agreed to. If there should be some excessive salaries or benefits somewhere, blame MANAGEMENT, not the unions, for agreeing to it.

Labor Relations 101, people.

Ray, this point is often made by Unions, but it is a bit misleading. Two rejoinders...

1) Often, the is other controlling law involved. For example, there has been binding arbitration in Michigan between city administrators and public-sector unions. The arbitrator decided on the wages. If management offered 3%, and union asked for 9%, the arbitrator might typically enforce a 'compromise' of 6%. Management had no say whatsoever.

2) Since there are no shareholders or owners, by definition, city adminstrators have little motivation to endure the alternative to a Union's demands -- a strike. It is usually found easier to agree to future pay increases and pension payments that will occur on someone else's political watch.

FDR wisely saw this structural flaw.

That said, there's nothing wrong with public employee unions or good pay for city workers. But the table is rather tilted.

[fryar]

Wasn't meant as general union-bashing.