Urban Garden where the Lafayette Building once stood

**TheKage** · June-08-11, 09:01 AM

Not sure if this is old news by now, but I talked to a guy on site yesterday as work was being done to build an urban garden on the lot where the Lafayette Building used to live. You can read a short blog entry here.

**401don** · June-08-11, 09:14 AM

Since a poorly maintained park full of bums is not ideal, I would rather they just pave it over as parking with some flower boxes along the sidewalk for now. It's just tacky having a veggie garden across from two hotels. Its sends the wrong message to visitors in my opinion.

**ghettopalmetto** · June-08-11, 09:15 AM

Originally Posted by 401don

. Its sends the wrong message to visitors in my opinion.

So does spending millions of dollars to demolish your downtown.

**TheKage** · June-08-11, 09:21 AM

I'm holding out hope they build it right and keep it maintained. I was told it was going to include displays of artwork,... so hopefully the end-result is an attractive, and unique, green space. We'll see...

**bailey** · June-08-11, 09:29 AM

Originally Posted by ghettopalmetto

So does spending millions of dollars to demolish your downtown.

Does a downtown full of derelict, windowless, unsecured, and crumbling buildings send any better a message?

**iheartthed** · June-08-11, 09:34 AM

Originally Posted by bailey

Does a downtown full of derelict, windowless, unsecured, and crumbling buildings send any better a message?

I've seen plenty of neighborhoods filled with rundown buildings be rehabilitated. Can't exactly say the same thing about a neighborhood full of surface parking lots...

**bailey** · June-08-11, 09:45 AM

Originally Posted by iheartthed

I've seen plenty of neighborhoods filled with rundown buildings be rehabilitated. Can't exactly say the same thing about a neighborhood full of surface parking lots...

how many of those rehabed neighborhoods were in Detroit? How many of them had a 15 story hulk of building, derelict for coming up on 20 years, and were in a CBD noted for it's abandonment?

**ghettopalmetto** · June-08-11, 09:47 AM

Originally Posted by bailey

Does a downtown full of derelict, windowless, unsecured, and crumbling buildings send any better a message?

And that's why we have building codes.

When you bulldoze your house because the roofing shingles are old or the windows leak, let us know.

**bailey** · June-08-11, 09:50 AM

Originally Posted by ghettopalmetto

And that's why we have building codes.

When you bulldoze your house because the roofing shingles are old or the windows leak, let us know.

Detroit doesn't have building codes?

Uh, and I think it was a little more than a leaky windows and bad shingles on the Layfayette.... If I were to let those leaky windows and bad shingles remain for 30+ years, I'm thinking demolition would likely be the only logical course of action.

**iheartthed** · June-08-11, 09:54 AM

Originally Posted by bailey

how many of those rehabed neighborhoods were in Detroit? How many of them had a 15 story hulk of building, derelict for coming up on 20 years, and were in a CBD noted for it's abandonment?

Does it matter? Not sure why people make it seem like the gravitational pull of Detroit is any different from what it is in any other city.

But since you ask, yes I've seen abandoned buildings in Detroit be rehabbed. I can't think of any examples of vacant lots being developed... in Detroit or elsewhere.

**ghettopalmetto** · June-08-11, 09:54 AM

Originally Posted by bailey

Detroit doesn't have building codes?

Uh, and I think it was a little more than a leaky windows and bad shingles on the Layfayette....

Why should they? It's far easier [[and presumably cheaper!) to just demolish everything deemed "old", "obsolete", "crumbling", or "structurally unsound", as determined by casual self-proclaimed building experts.

Replace all that steel, concrete, and masonry with some good ole weed-filled or landscaped-and-lighted lots, and now you're talking some SERIOUS revitalization!

**bailey** · June-08-11, 10:12 AM

Originally Posted by iheartthed

But since you ask, yes I've seen abandoned buildings in Detroit be rehabbed. I can't think of any examples of vacant lots being developed... in Detroit or elsewhere.

you didnt say buildings...you said neighborhoods.

**iheartthed** · June-08-11, 10:15 AM

Originally Posted by bailey

you didnt say buildings...you said neighborhoods.

Okay, yes, neighborhoods. Do you remember what Woodward looked like between GCP and Kennedy Square 15 years ago?

**bailey** · June-08-11, 10:16 AM

Originally Posted by ghettopalmetto

Why should they? It's far easier [[and presumably cheaper!) to just demolish everything deemed "old", "obsolete", "crumbling", or "structurally unsound", as determined by casual self-proclaimed building experts.

Replace all that steel, concrete, and masonry with some good ole weed-filled or landscaped-and-lighted lots, and now you're talking some SERIOUS revitalization!

Well, the outrage should be directed at the incompetents that run the code enforcement that allow a building to slide to such a state that no private investor would touch it. Lets not forget that this and many other buildings in detroit stayed empty and derilict during the greatest expansion of wealth the world has ever seen. Think anything is going to be different during a depression that ...in michigan at least...is going to last just as long as the expansion?

The choice for the layfayette was not between demo now or rehab. It was between demo now or wait another 30 years for it to fall down.

**bailey** · June-08-11, 10:18 AM

yup...the Whitney was still open and there was more retail. Speaking of Kennedy Square.... what was there before that building went up?

**iheartthed** · June-08-11, 10:22 AM

Originally Posted by bailey

yup...the Whitney was still open and there was more retail. Speaking of Kennedy Square.... what was there before that building went up?

A 40 year old park built on top of a parking structure.

**ghettopalmetto** · June-08-11, 10:23 AM

Originally Posted by bailey

The choice for the layfayette was not between demo now or rehab. It was between demo now or wait another 30 years for it to fall down.

Not to re-start a long-winded previous thread...

..but the options you present were determined by George Jackson. George is not qualified to determine these options. No effort to obtain objective, unbiased information and recommendations from licensed design professionals was ever attempted or made public. To even imply otherwise is a bald-faced lie.

But hey, Adamo made a million and a half bucks, damn near collapsed Michigan Avenue, and now Detroiters will get a fantastic new patch of weeds. What's the worry?

**bailey** · June-08-11, 10:24 AM

Originally Posted by iheartthed

A 40 year old park built on top of a parking structure.

and before the park?

**401don** · June-08-11, 10:28 AM

Since the Lafayette is gone, I'm still curious, for now do you guys prefer a traditional park [[given there's probably no need so close to Capitol Park or money to maintain it), a paved parking lot or garden?

**bailey** · June-08-11, 10:32 AM

Originally Posted by ghettopalmetto

Not to re-start a long-winded previous thread...

..but the options you present were determined by George Jackson. George is not qualified to determine these options. No effort to obtain objective, unbiased information and recommendations from licensed design professionals was ever attempted or made public. To even imply otherwise is a bald-faced lie.

But hey, Adamo made a million and a half bucks, damn near collapsed Michigan Avenue, and now Detroiters will get a fantastic new patch of weeds. What's the worry?

No, the options were determined by the market. THERE WAS NO ONE WHO WOULD DEVELOP IT and the state was not then and certainly is not now or anytime in the remotely near future going to pony up hundreds of millions to incentivize the rehab. It languished in private ownership and crumbled after it was abandoned to the city.

I don't give a fuck if the building was still technically sound. that is irrelevant. It doesn't change the fact it was going to be empty for another generation. anyone saying otherwise is delusional.

**iheartthed** · June-08-11, 10:34 AM

Originally Posted by bailey

and before the park?

I believe it was the old city hall. But that predates my birth by several decades, so I can't say for sure.

ETA: But anyway, call me when that much vaunted piece of real estate where the Hudson's building sat is finally developed. It's been sitting empty for almost as long as the Book Cadillac was abandoned.

**bailey** · June-08-11, 10:39 AM

Originally Posted by iheartthed

I believe it was the old city hall. But that predates my birth by several decades, so I can't say for sure.

well hey... maybe in 40 years or so, this park will blossom into a nice 10 story building...

**iheartthed** · June-08-11, 10:40 AM

Originally Posted by bailey

well hey... maybe in 40 years or so, this park will blossom into a nice 10 story building...

The trends suggest the lot will have much better odds for redevelopment with an abandoned building sitting on it.

**Danny** · June-08-11, 10:41 AM

The vacant brownfield where the Lafayette building stood will be fenced for corporate future development; like some 50 story glass coated skyscaper building. An Urban garden in the middle if Downtown Detroit may not happen anytime soon. Put it the ghetto where middle low-income folks can get their free meals.

**English** · June-08-11, 10:41 AM

Originally Posted by bailey

No, the options were determined by the market. THERE WAS NO ONE WHO WOULD DEVELOP IT and the state was not then and certainly is not now or anytime in the remotely near future going to pony up hundreds of millions to incentivize the rehab. It languished in private ownership and crumbled after it was abandoned to the city.

I don't give a fuck if the building was still technically sound. that is irrelevant. It doesn't change the fact it was going to be empty for another generation. anyone saying otherwise is delusional.

People said that about the B-C, my friend. They said it for my entire lifetime. Revitalizing a hotel on Washington Boulevard was a losing proposition, they said. It will never happen...

You might be right. The optimists might be right. But both of you have ONE thing in common -- no one can predict the future. If you'd painted a picture of today's Detroit, traveled back in time and showed it to people in the 1950s -- or even better, the 1920s -- they would laugh you out of town.

In 30-40 years, neither you, nor I, nor anyone else knows what Detroit will be. We don't know if it will eventually be evacuated and abandoned, or whether it will experience growth. None of our opinions are facts, not even those we believe are reasonably informed. We can be confident of many of our short-term predictions, but forecasting the far future beyond expressing your hopes, dreams, and fears is a losing proposition.