Palmer Woods Security

[DetroiterOnTheWestCoast]

Interesting article on the private security in PW. I know I wouldn't mess with that guy in a big black Hummer. Nice to see that that new U of D Mercy president is moving into the neighborhood.


http://www.freep.com/article/2011060...-style-patrols

[davewindsor]

Interesting article on the private security in PW. I know I wouldn't mess with that guy in a big black Hummer. Nice to see that that new U of D Mercy president is moving into the neighborhood.


http://www.freep.com/article/2011060...-style-patrols

And if you did mess with him, what's supposed to happen? He just calls the police. But, it's an underfunded police budget and police response times that are the problem. Are there any FBI or DPD statistics to prove there was a reduction in crime?

From the article it says, "No one is obligated to show ID, and there is no bellowing over a loudspeaker for anyone to pull over. Brown and his staff discreetly monitor the person, confirming with a homeowner to determine whether the person is a valid guest or contractor. If they see suspicious or criminal behavior, Recon staff members call police."

[Bham1982]

It's odd that they're promoting it as a "neighborhood marketing tool".

Regardless of its effectiveness, I don't think self-proclaimed "paramilitary-style security" is a neighborhood selling point, as if Palmer Woods is sitting amongst the shantytowns of Honduras.

But, if it cuts crime in the long run, it could be good for property values, regardless of the [[IMO) oppressive security presence.

[Detroitnerd]

Neighborhood watch and citizen's patrols are better, but we all know that PW residents are probably too rich to bother driving around or talking to each other...

[iheartthed]

Regardless of its effectiveness, I don't think self-proclaimed "paramilitary-style security" is a neighborhood selling point, as if Palmer Woods is sitting amongst the shantytowns of Honduras.

I can already see one of the mainstream media outlets picking up the story as a quick "Detroit is still fucked up" piece.

[DetroitPole]

Neighborhood watch and citizen's patrols are better, but we all know that PW residents are probably too rich to bother driving around or talking to each other...

"better" how? And I'm guessing that in the last 10 years as property values have plummeted, many middle class people live in Palmer Woods. It still isn't Grosse Pointe Shores, and there are some modest houses there.

I am a volunteer patroller and have been for years. However residents of stable communities have jobs, families, and hobbies, like the rest of humanity, and cannot dedicate all their time to patrolling. We have a paid patrol as well as a volunteer one. It helps alleviate some of the burden from the residents who have enough responsibilities trying to maintain their neighborhoods, often with no/only sporadic help from the City.

This is definitely a selling point and definitely a deterrent. This isn't the movies; criminals in this city are actually just low-life, loser pussies. The last thing most of them want is any kind of attention or confrontation from anyone. If you were a low-life criminal, and given the choice of ripping off a neighborhood with this guy cruising around, or one where no one was paying attention, which would you choose?

[Strathcona]

Neighborhood watch and citizen's patrols are better, but we all know that PW residents are probably too rich to bother driving around or talking to each other...

Quite an assumption there DetroitNerd. I would keep your comments to yourself. This town is negative enough without you making accusations and claims about things you apparently have no knowledge of.

[DetBill]

I think its a good idea,, its not easy to keep the good established hoods in Detroit that way, and there are many of us who dont want to run and are doing what can be done. Its not a unique idea either, Many cities have areas whose residents have similar protection. Look around Florida, many areas , if not gated,, have these type of patrols. You just need to do what you need to do.

[mwilbert]

Typically criminals want as little hassle as possible. If you are thinking of doing something illegal and you encounter a patrol and see somebody watching you, how likely are you to confront them? More likely you just leave and go someplace else. Maybe you come back later and hope no one sees you then. As far as deterrence goes, that's all a police patrol could do--it's not a crime to drive through Palmer Woods. Of course police could run plates or warrants.

The biggest problem with the patrols is getting a sufficient percentage of the homeowners to pay their dues. In the University District [[ which has its own patrol) I think less than 20% of people contribute.

[313hero]

Palmer Woods is a beautifull neighborhood, one of Detroit's best as a matter of fact it is the best. I do alot of work out there and one of those robo cops [[Black Guy)approached us while we were CLEARLY working mowing multiple houses, stoped us from working asked for our ID's. I was like for one who are you? and dont you see us working. he gave us some BS excuse and we complied but it felt a little overbearing. the very next week the Black Guy wasnt out there it was a white guy. He road past us and waved. I being Black expected him to get out and go through all the same crap the other guy did but he didnt. he was cool. he saw we were hardworking and didnt see any threat I assume. I learned alot that day, and that experience has helped me grow.
But w/ all that said and those military like folks out there one of my customers got his brand new Porche truck stolen. when he told me I thought how in the heck did they do that w/ all these robo thugs running around, just goes to show if someone has bad intentions bad things are going to happen regardless.

[English]

Speaking as someone who lives in perhaps the most heavily patrolled and surveilled neighborhood in the city, you have to do what you have to do, and so do viable neighborhoods. There are no guarantees, though.

[socks_mahoney]

I was once a part of an effort to get one of these private patrols started in Woodbridge. We had a citizens patrol for some time but its hard to keep that going without a critical mass of the right personalities. The effort floundered and though some would say its ongoing I reckon that we will not see this type of patrol in Woodbridge anytime soon.

At first I went along with the idea, but after meeting the thugs who planned to employ to keep the neighborhood safe I pulled out. They came to the interview in brown shirts and hats and wearing chains. As a descendant of people who suffered at the hands of fascism in Europe it gave me the jeepers.

We don't need private militias, thats for the third world, what we need is a well funded and competent police department. These private patrols are the first step on the slippery slope to South Africa style fenced in communities surrounded by slums. I for one will not be a part of that. This is the United States of America people.

Can you say brown shirts? No to private patrols, yes to police funding. How can we pay for it? Hmmmm lets start with taxing Matty Maroun and Mike Illitch and their cronies. Protection only for the rich, I smell social danger.

[Detroitnerd]

Quite an assumption there DetroitNerd. I would keep your comments to yourself. This town is negative enough without you making accusations and claims about things you apparently have no knowledge of.

Oh, sure. It's only the richest part of Detroit, where most of the City Council lives. Common knowledge. Your idea that anybody on a message board should keep comments to theirself is as ridiculous as it is hilarious. Go jump in a lake.

[Detroitnerd]

"better" how? And I'm guessing that in the last 10 years as property values have plummeted, many middle class people live in Palmer Woods. It still isn't Grosse Pointe Shores, and there are some modest houses there.

I guess I'd say that I like citizen patrols and neighborhood watches better because it forces the active population to really get to know each other and work together. You're already familiar with the neighborhood, people's comings and goings, and you know how to spot something abnormal. Anything that builds a stronger community is terrific, better than paying a guy to drive around your neighborhood who may or may not know the people in it. Although, in the end, that's pretty good too, I suppose.

[SaintMe]

Neighborhood watch and citizen's patrols are better, but we all know that PW residents are probably too rich to bother driving around or talking to each other...

I was under the impression that some of the better neighborhoods in Detroit stay that way because the residents talk to and look out for each other.

[Detroitnerd]

I was under the impression that some of the better neighborhoods in Detroit stay that way because the residents talk to and look out for each other.

OK, but let's say you live in that area and your neighbor is ... Monica Conyers ...

[DetroitPole]

Oh, sure. It's only the richest part of Detroit, where most of the City Council lives. Common knowledge. Your idea that anybody on a message board should keep comments to theirself is as ridiculous as it is hilarious. Go jump in a lake.

I don't want to appear like I'm hounding you, which is not my intention, but in fact zero of the current council people live in Palmer Woods proper. Gary Brown lives nextdoor in Sherwood Forest, but he's the closest, and its still not Palmer Woods.
I'm sensitive to the issue because I live in one of the nicer 'hoods of Detroit and have people hurl accusations at me like I "practically live in Grosse Pointe" when it is not the case at all. We all have to deal with many of the same challenges as City of Detroit residents.

[Detroitnerd]

I don't want to appear like I'm hounding you, which is not my intention, but in fact zero of the current council people live in Palmer Woods proper. Gary Brown lives nextdoor in Sherwood Forest, but he's the closest, and its still not Palmer Woods.
I'm sensitive to the issue because I live in one of the nicer 'hoods of Detroit and have people hurl accusations at me like I "practically live in Grosse Pointe" when it is not the case at all. We all have to deal with many of the same challenges as City of Detroit residents.

I know. Thanks for sharing. But for most of Detroit, there ain't all that much difference between Palmer Woods, Palmer Park, or even Sherwood Forest. The citywide perception is very much, "That's where the people who can afford to live." Specifically, neighborhoods where the richest Detroiters live [[the Feigensons, for instance), with private security, few through-streets and an air of exclusivity.

Oh, heck. I'm sure it's just like any ol' Detroit neighborhood, right? I'll just wander back home to my personal Tudor mansion and think things over.

[EastsideAl]

Oh, sure. It's only the richest part of Detroit, where most of the City Council lives. Common knowledge. Your idea that anybody on a message board should keep comments to theirself is as ridiculous as it is hilarious. Go jump in a lake.

Don't "most of the City Council" live in North Rosedale Park? I know that for many years that area had a real concentration of City Council members, but I'm not sure of the present-day Council. As stated above, none live in Palmer Woods, and we've never to my knowledge had any Council members in Indian Village. In fact, one of the main complaints around here from folks who support Council by district is the consistent lack of representation from the Eastside.

[fryar]

I understand the concerns about the US becoming a nation of shantytowns, although you might make similar comments about private schooling and such. But this kind of thing seems like making the best of a bad situation, and probably should be encouraged. One should hope that, even if they do not intervene, they at least record evidence.

[j to the jeremy]

Don't "most of the City Council" live in North Rosedale Park? I know that for many years that area had a real concentration of City Council members, but I'm not sure of the present-day Council. As stated above, none live in Palmer Woods, and we've never to my knowledge had any Council members in Indian Village. In fact, one of the main complaints around here from folks who support Council by district is the consistent lack of representation from the Eastside.

Actually, most of the last council lived downtown. Cockrel lives in Woodbridge, so maybe Dnerd should chill. Pugh lives downtown, I believe. The reason the charter commission drew districts is because there were so few politicians living in any 'hoods outside of the Boulevard.

[firstandten]

Don't "most of the City Council" live in North Rosedale Park? I know that for many years that area had a real concentration of City Council members, but I'm not sure of the present-day Council. As stated above, none live in Palmer Woods, and we've never to my knowledge had any Council members in Indian Village. In fact, one of the main complaints around here from folks who support Council by district is the consistent lack of representation from the Eastside.

If you have any council people living in PW then they should be investigated, because based on a council salary they shouldn't be able to afford living in PW

[Bham1982]

If you have any council people living in PW then they should be investigated, because based on a council salary they shouldn't be able to afford living in PW

That's a ridiculous comment.

Palmer Woods has had home sales well under 200k. Average Joes can buy the more modest homes in Palmer Woods nowadays. A city council salary is more than sufficient.

And councilmembers may have other income sources or working spouses/family members.

[DetroitPole]

I still am in awe that this attitude exists today that some Detroiters are somehow more authentic than other Detroiters. That somehow you must live in some bohemian collective or the ultra-ghetto to really be Detroit. Really, at this stage of the game we are still splitting hairs? I live in a modest old bungalow, but if you live in the City of Detroit and take care of your shit and respect your neighbors you are kin to me.

[lilpup]

I still am in awe that this attitude exists today that some Detroiters are somehow more authentic than other Detroiters. That somehow you must live in some bohemian collective or the ultra-ghetto to really be Detroit. Really, at this stage of the game we are still splitting hairs?

Ref: Midtown/Harlem....doorman/no doorman