Is it crazy to [[voluntarily) live without a car in Detroit?

[urbanhat]

Looks like there have been a few threads about car-free incentives and such, but I want to pose the question: Is it at all possible, really, to live without a car Detroit?

I've read that roughly 20-25% of Detroiters do not have access to a car. I assume these are almost all people who are too poor to own a car and would buy one if they could.

But what about a young professional person who could otherwise afford it simply prefers to avoid the hassle and expense of owning a car?

I've lived happily car-free in Boston for the past four years, and now I'm considering moving to Detroit. The biggest downside I can see is not the lack of jobs, but the necessity of buying a car. Is it possible to get away without one? Does anyone do this? It doesn't seem easy, but maybe it's possible to make do with a combination of walking, biking, taxis, and informal car-sharing. Would that be a reasonable challenge, or just miserable?

I'm originally from MI, so I understand it's obviously far more car-centric than Boston. But is there any place for a car-free lifestyle?

[iheartthed]

Of course it is possible. But your quality of life in Detroit will be significantly less than what it was in Boston without a car.

[Detroitnerd]

The great thing about Detroit is you don't need a car at all. With our vast system of electrified street railways, you can be whisked from one side of town to the other for a modest fare.

Oh, wait ... wrong century ...

[bartock]

Is this a c-punch?

[SWMAP]

Apropos to this, I am reminded of the young man's plaintive remark on this Board that here girls think you are a loser if all you have is a bike to get around on. Need to keep that in mind.

[Bham1982]

No way is it crazy.

Odd and impractical, for sure, but not crazy.

I think it may kinda sorta work if you're a student in Midtown. Even then, though, you would probably need to bum a ton of rides.

[p1acebo]

No way is it crazy.

Odd and impractical, for sure, but not crazy.

I think it may kinda sorta work if you're a student in Midtown. Even then, though, you would probably need to bum a ton of rides.

This, plus the hipsters seem to live fine without cars, although they are not "young professionals"

[casscorridor]

The problem with living in Detroit is simple:

lack of dense neighborhoods

lack of rail transportation AND lack of reliable and frequent bus service

lack of amenities within neighborhoods, such as grocery stores, parks and restaurants within walking distance


Other cities offer these things. Sure, the suburbs don't have these things, but we need not compare ourselves to suburbs, which is part of the reasons these problems came about. We have to compare Detroit to other major metropolitan cities. Chicago has some of the most sprawling suburbs anywhere, but still has a large transit system and dense neighborhoods with everything you need within the central city.

If we think of the city as the same of suburbs, the "city" will slowly die. Because suburbs have good schools and low crime rates, and are within a close drive to shopping. The city has schools rapidly closing down and high crime and entire neighborhoods burnt out, and you have DRIVE to the suburbs to get things. I thought you were suppose to drive from the suburbs to the city, not the other way around.

Detroit needs to offer walkable urban lifestyles, within vibrant and dense neighborhoods connected to mass transit to survive. Because then it offers a completely different lifestyle than what is possible in the suburbs. What gives us any reasons to think the flight won't stop otherwise?

[Autoracks]

Crazy no, impractical yes. If eastern market was full on a few days a week, there was light rail or some other convenient public transportation connecting midtown, downtown, and the market plus I lived and worked downtown or within that transportation web I wouldnt mind not driving. My own experience in midtown includes a stolen car and a busted out window. I would probably feel pretty stuck tho

[Danny]

That is why Detroit is called THE MOTOR CITY! We get around by cars. Detroit is not just a walkable city that is filled with bicycles, communter rail lines and public transit busses, getting into your "CHITTY CHITTY BANG BANGS" will make your travel worries go away, Or isn't it.


WORD FROM THE STREET PROPHET

Wait until the gas prices goes up, up, up to $5.00 a gallon, then you don't need to car to travel 10 miles crosstown.

Neda, I miss you so.

[laphoque]

Apropos to this, I am reminded of the young man's plaintive remark on this Board that here girls think you are a loser if all you have is a bike to get around on. Need to keep that in mind.

I know a lot of girls who think bikes are really sexy. Maybe we hang out with different people.

It's definitely doable, especially if you have downtown as your base because the whole transit system revolves around it. You could theoretically get to Flint for less than the cost of a gallon of gas from downtown if you go to Great Lakes Crossing using SMART and transfer to MTA.

On the other hand most of the burb buses only come one to two times an hour. DDOT can be better but this city council keeps proposing to cut it. Our transit system is disintegrating. But perhaps if revenue doesn't decline as badly as it has been this year that can start to be reversed as we streamline the system and introduce light rail [[please don't fuck it up this time Detroit business barons)

[trotwood]

This, plus the hipsters seem to live fine without cars, although they are not "young professionals"

I'm not a hipster nor[[sadly)am I a youngster but I manage to live a rather nice comfortable life without a car. Lived in Detroit for years with one&years without one. When I had one I often left it parked&took the bus.When I didn't have one life managed to be pleasant&rewarding enough. I have means to be one whenever I see the need.So far haven't seen the need. I don't get why some see it as 'nuts' not to have a car or think life is somehow lacking without one. Sure they're plenty of advantages to having one but life without a car is hardly the end .
Now if anyone ever posts a thread titled "Would you prefer to have a car in SE during dog days of summer&the Tundra cold of winter?" I've got plenty to say on that.

[laphoque]

Also getting to Ann Arbor is a pain... you have to bike through Canton after taking the Michigan Ave bus to the end.

[milesdriven]

I have not met one person in my lifetime who lived in Detroit and was carless voluntarily, although I have met many people who are "between cars".

[Rocko]

DDOT buses have motors thusly they are an important part of the fabric of the Motor City......or something like that

If you're used to the service provided by the T, Detroit will be a shock. We have a decent suburban bus system and a separate city system that at one time was decent but has been constantly on the chopping block for the past several years, with the system becoming more and more lean and headways longer and longer. Depending on where you are and where you want to go, you can still find frequent service on some routes. Reliability is something that should not be counted on.

And yes, I don't know why SMART and AATA don't have a Michigan Avenue transfer someplace.....like around 275.

[Cooper]

Looks like there have been a few threads about car-free incentives and such, but I want to pose the question: Is it at all possible, really, to live without a car Detroit?

Depending on where your job is, yes, there are a handful of neighborhoods where you can live just fine without reliable access to a car. If, say, you work downtown, you could easily live in Midtown, Corktown, or Hubbard Farms without a car. Just choose an apartment/house within a quarter mile of a decent grocery store, and then ride your bike or take the bus to work.

I did something like that earlier this year. I live in Midtown and commuted to work [[just west of Highland Park) using the Woodward and Schoolcraft buses. For groceries, I rode my bike to Food Pride or walked to Kim's Produce. I did most of my socializing at nearby bars and restaurants, and I took a long SMART bus ride out to the suburbs once to do some overdue shopping [[i.e. towels at Target).

Where not having a car will hurt you is 1) access to shopping and 2) your social life. Detroit has limited retail options, and almost everyone does at least some of their shopping in the suburbs. Taking the bus out to a major shopping center will take at least an hour one way. As a young person, I'm more bothered by how hard it is to get out at night without a car. The limited daytime bus service becomes skeletal after dark. So if your friends are meeting up at Cadieux Cafe or any other bar outside of a .5 mile radius of your place, you're probably going to need a ride, especially in winter.

The point is, no, it's not crazy, and yes, it can be done. It's also getting easier to do [[at least in the greater downtown area) as more businesses open up and the light rail line is built [[knock on wood). But it sure helps to live with someone with a car and have friends or family who can help in a pinch.

[jackie5275]

My husband used to ride the Telegraph bus with a woman who lived near 6 & Telegraph who chose not to have a car. She told him she'd rather spend her money on material items like expensive clothes & shoes. Apparently, she took the bus everywhere & got along alright.

[wolverine]

I've lived without a car for 2 years here in Chicago, but if I moved to Detroit, I would definitely get a car.

I would feel trapped. There's just no where to walk to. Transit is not "instant" either like it is with some cities where a train or bus will arrive within minutes.

My own personal rule is, if I can get to a place walking or biking faster than a car, it's worth not having a car. Going car-less should not be a chore. I can't image achieving the same level of convenience of what I have now if I were to move to Detroit. The whole reason I gave away my car was because I didn't need it and lost interest in driving to places. All the places I need to go are within reach of my home. Not just a few places and destinations, but thousands.

[detroitsgwenivere]

I rode the DDOT/ SMART system voluntarily for 6 years, mainly to cut back on the expense of operating a motor vehicle in the big red marker zone. It was definitely convenient in the city and on the main routes. I got lots of exercise, met lots of interesting people, and experienced more of the city from the street level, all of which won't normally happen in the car.

But what really sucked was the inability to get around during late hours or at my personal convenience. Dealing with the occasional wierdo/mental case/ drug addict was a given. The fact that my entire life had to rotate around the damn bus schedules, most of which were never followed, left me longing for a car in the end. Even a year after I finally bought a car, I was still eye darting when I heard the unmistakable sound of bus brakes.

I did, however, manage to buy a caddy as a reward to myself for my years of contribution to the regional transportation system. I don't regret it one bit.

[erikd]

I have not met one person in my lifetime who lived in Detroit and was carless voluntarily, although I have met many people who are "between cars".

I voluntarily lived car-free in Detroit for over five years. It is definitely do-able, but there are some drawbacks. I live and work downtown, so commuting was a pleasure. There are plenty of bars, restaurants, and entertainment venues in the city center, so there was no problem there.

Contrary to popular belief, there are many nice grocery stores in Detroit, especially in the greater downtown area. However, grocery shopping can be a pain when you have to walk four blocks and/or get on the bus with a bunch of bags filled with groceries, especially on cold snowy days. Once again, it is do-able, but not as nice or convenient as taking a car from door to door.

The biggest drawbacks that I found were the same ones expressed by Cooper: 1) access to shopping and 2) your social life.

Detroit has more retail than most people realize, but it doesn't compare to the plethora of retail options found in suburban shopping malls and big-box stores.

In my experience, the lack of retail was rarely a burden. Everything you need for daily life can easily be found in the city, and most of the rest of the stuff you need can be purchased online or can wait until you plan a shopping trip out to a suburban mall or big box store.

[Bham1982]

My sense is, with the exception of NYC, most adult folks in the U.S. benefit from a car if they have the means.

The exception may be for some folks still in school and just starting out.

I think I could survive without a car if single and not particularly sociable, but I have no idea how it would work with a family.

[kraig]

Looks like there have been a few threads about car-free incentives and such, but I want to pose the question: Is it at all possible, really, to live without a car Detroit?

I've read that roughly 20-25% of Detroiters do not have access to a car. I assume these are almost all people who are too poor to own a car and would buy one if they could.

But what about a young professional person who could otherwise afford it simply prefers to avoid the hassle and expense of owning a car?

I've lived happily car-free in Boston for the past four years, and now I'm considering moving to Detroit. The biggest downside I can see is not the lack of jobs, but the necessity of buying a car. Is it possible to get away without one? Does anyone do this? It doesn't seem easy, but maybe it's possible to make do with a combination of walking, biking, taxis, and informal car-sharing. Would that be a reasonable challenge, or just miserable?

I'm originally from MI, so I understand it's obviously far more car-centric than Boston. But is there any place for a car-free lifestyle?

There are a lot of things to enjoy about Michigan. Having a car is the best way to get to them. If you can afford to have a car in Michigan, and choose not to do so, yeah, you're crazy.

[Planner3357]

Yes you would be crazy. I have no choice to but to live with a car as I work in Watertucky and live downtown. Yes, it is my choice to live far from work, but hoping its only temporary as the drive does blow.

But, despite gas prices, I thoroughly enjoy driving my car, especially with the sunroof open!
I'm not one of those people who hate cars, I love them! Especially fast ones! And given the opportunity to live without it I would have to decline.

[ghettopalmetto]

My sense is, with the exception of NYC, most adult folks in the U.S. benefit from a car if they have the means.

I know a *lot* of folks who have lived in DC, Boston, Chicago, Philadelphia, Cleveland, Minneapolis, and San Francisco without ever owning a car, nor a desire to own a car.

The exception may be for some folks still in school and just starting out.

And it's this "exception" that Detroit sorely needs to keep from leaving for the aforementioned places.

[fryar]

Most people benefit from having a car, but most people in "real cities" just rent or car share a couple of times a month, if at all. There is no comment here on NYC, but rather a comment on Detroit.

To the OP, you can live in Detroit without a car, but it is not an MO of choice for yuppies, or non-contrarians, or what have you. By and large.

Coming from Zipcars's hometown, your jaw may drop at the lack of options.

If you don't really care to drive a car and will be walking to work [[like me), get a car you can afford to write off in a worst case scenario, and don't get comprehensive & collision insurance. What people refer to as no-fault insurance will be comparable in cost to a monthly bus pass, or cheaper, depending on your city of reference.

Also, get "The Club." :-)