It WAS nice to dream for a second on transit.

[brizee]

http://www.crainsdetroit.com/article...out-they-like#

Three years they've had to talk about this.

Wasted congress time, SOT Lahood's time, ciity councils time, and most importantly MY fucking time and enthusiasm.

For this to come up now in the process really does feel like planned sabotage.

[Rocko]

Can't see the article myself but suspect it's about the curb running vs. center-of-road running which has STILL not been sorted out. Just make a decision already. I'd prefer the center of road option because of the safety and timeliness aspects, but holy shit just do something and get er done. I don't know why this wasn't figured out months ago......it's not like they didn't know the EIS draft and final were coming up.

[rjk]

^Do a search on Crain's transit.
It should be the first link under news.

[stasu1213]

I had said that the curbside versus middle of the street argurment would be the reason that the thing would never take off.That is for some entities in this town don't want it to take off so create something such as a stupid argument to stall it. Go figure

[esp1986]

You would think that the business people would want it to be efficient, reliable and somewhat faster, but they're the ones that want it to be curbside. You just know that some crackhead will park his car on the curbside tracks and hold the line up for a few hours. WTF?!

[stasu1213]

You would think that the business people would want it to be efficient, reliable and somewhat faster, but they're the ones that want it to be curbside. You just know that some crackhead will park his car on the curbside tracks and hold the line up for a few hours. WTF?!

It is true at the beginning the business leaders wanted the train to go curbside which I had thought that it was a bad idea at the time for the reasons as you had stated. I think one or two of those who are in the business community had changed their position on what part of the street the train would run. The plan for light rail up woodward had been discussed years before Karmanos, Penske, and the rest had decided to try to put their resources together to start a system. Face it. There are other elements besides the business community who don't want to see light rail in Detroit become reality. Anyone could be paid to gran stand on behalf of lightrail but behind the scene conspire to stop it from happening. That anybody doesn't always have to been elected official eventhough I would not be surprise if one or two was part of that conspiracy

[ghettopalmetto]

It is true at the beginning the business leaders wanted the train to go curbside which I had thought that it was a bad idea at the time for the reasons as you had stated. I think one or two of those who are in the business community had changed their position on what part of the street the train would run. The plan for light rail up woodward had been discussed years before Karmanos, Penske, and the rest had decided to try to put their resources together to start a system. Face it. There are other elements besides the business community who don't want to see light rail in Detroit become reality. Anyone could be paid to gran stand on behalf of lightrail but behind the scene conspire to stop it from happening. That anybody doesn't always have to been elected official eventhough I would not be surprise if one or two was part of that conspiracy

And for any anti-government free-market uber-capitalist types who might be reading this thread...

THIS is why the private sector shouldn't build infrastructure. These clowns could give a rats ass about the general public.

[Rocko]

I've seen double-parked cars and delivery vehicles, broken down cruisers and DDOT buses, and overturned shopping carts in the right lane of Woodward. It needs to go Center Median. Why don't they just let me call the shots? I work for FREE

[ghettopalmetto]

I've seen double-parked cars and delivery vehicles, broken down cruisers and DDOT buses, and overturned shopping carts in the right lane of Woodward. It needs to go Center Median. Why don't they just let me call the shots? I work for FREE

These idiots are calling for curbside running because they're afraid for people crossing the street. Here's an idea--go to Toronto and spend a weekend. If the TTC streetcars can run center-lane all over the city, I'm sure a light rail line on the much less-trafficked Woodward can handle it too.

[bailey]

And for any anti-government free-market uber-capitalist types who might be reading this thread...

THIS is why the private sector shouldn't build infrastructure. These clowns could give a rats ass about the general public.

exactly. for their magnanimous gesture, they want a curbside parking shuttle for their customers and employees...they do not want mass transit. Since they hold the key to getting it completed, they will get their curbside parking shuttle with a stop on every corner...and we'll get People Mover part deux. awesome.

[Richard]

I guess if you own the property on the side that it is running on then it would be to your benefit to have it run there, to stay neutral down the middle seems to work elsewhere with designated crosswalks.

Or sense they are redoing the road anyways the stop could be in the middle of a roundabout.

[iheartthed]

exactly. for their magnanimous gesture, they want a curbside parking shuttle for their customers and employees...they do not want mass transit.

Basically. And this is one expensive ass parking shuttle. I can't think of a good reason for the train to go curbside other than that [[and even that reasoning is flawed). It's mind-boggling.

[Detroitnerd]

I am appalled that, after the public comments and engineering studies, now that they apparently feel they're not going to get their way [[a shitty parking shuttle system) they're talking about taking their marbles and going home. Go home, titans of business. You guys suck ...

[begingri]

Private money on the line: Woodward rail donors wait for layout they like

By Bill Shea

Until an accord is reached on critical aspects of the Woodward light-rail line, a consortium of private-sector donors who have pledged $100 million toward the project's $528 million capital costs won't commit any money.

"We'll wait to see if there's a project that makes sense and is viable. Then we'll be prepared to invest," said Matt Cullen, CEO of M1 Rail, the coalition of project financial backers who mainly favor a curbside alignment for the line rather than the median-running layout apparently preferred by the city.

And until the debate is resolved, the $100 million exists largely as just a series of informal "soft" commitments from donors, some of which have lapsed because the 9.3-mile, streetcar-style line between Hart Plaza and Eight Mile Road still remains in the planning stages.

"It isn't like this money was in a box," Cullen said.

The M1 money accounts for 47 percent of the project's $210 million required local match needed to leverage $318 million in federal funding to build the line.

The impasse over the line's alignment -- M1 Rail prefers slower curbside service that delivers people to the sidewalk, while the Detroit Department of Transportation is pushing for a purely center-of-street line that travels at higher speeds -- continues behind the scenes, sources familiar with the situation told Crain's.

Until those details are resolved, M1 Rail isn't going to firm up its financing commitment, Cullen said, nor will the group commit money to a project that it doesn't philosophically agree with.

Cullen is quick to add that he expects the city and M1, along with the Federal Transit Administration staffers advising DDOT on the project, to come to an accord.

"Everybody on our side of the project wants it to happen and will be reasonably flexible about it," he said, adding that preliminary plans for a mostly median-running line have begun to circulate in recent weeks, and project engineering is only about 10 percent complete.

"All the funders, including the city, M1 and FTA, have to have a project they're all comfortable with," he said, noting that the line will be a hybrid curbside-median layout that will likely loop west to include the Rosa Parks Transit Center at Cass and Michigan avenues.

Continued at: http://www.crainsdetroit.com/article...yout-they-like [[Google the headline and click on the first link for the full article.)

[bailey]

I am appalled that, after the public comments and engineering studies, now that they apparently feel they're not going to get their way [[a shitty parking shuttle system) they're talking about taking their marbles and going home. Go home, titans of business. You guys suck ...

It's the "golden rule"---Those with the gold make the rules. It would be nice if the state, local and regional leaders called the bluff and pulled the plug on the whole project...but they wont. So we'll sink half a billion dollars on a project that is a failure before the shovels hit the dirt. I love this place.

[Hypestyles]

I will be writing to governor snyder and mayor bing about this..

[Richard]

Good thing nobody is thinking about building a bridge based on this aspect

[bailey]

I will be writing to governor snyder and mayor bing about this..

Unless you are writing a 100,000,000 dollar check to enclose in that letter, you're wasting your time.

[Richard]

I will be writing to governor snyder and mayor bing about this..

Its okay neither one will reply anyways.

[jtf1972]

These idiots are calling for curbside running because they're afraid for people crossing the street.

If they were really concerned for people who cross streets without regard toward large objects that would kill them, they would push for digging up Woodward & putting the whole thing underground. You know, like a REAL public transit system with longevity would be.

[Detroitnerd]

"Forget it, Jake. It's Chinatown."

[Planner3357]

They should just build a slow pointless elevated transit system that goes in a big circle...wait...

[Detroitnerd]

How are you going to bias metro Detroiters against serious mass transit unless you keep building stupid, pointless transit systems that don't work every 25 years?

[Joseph C. Krause]

New list announced for M1 stations in phase 1:
https://home.crainsdetroit.com/click...hed-on-m1-rail

1. Hart Plaza Station
2. Coleman A. Young Municipal Center Station
3. Quicken Loans Station
4. Campus Martius Park Station
5. Compuware Station
6. Hudson's Urban Garden Station
7. Grand River Avenue Station
8. Grand Circus Park South -- Transfer to People Mover
[[Free Shuttle service to People Mover available)
9. Grand Circus Park North -- Transfer to Hoots, Niki's, or Nemo bus
[[Cab stand added to connect to busses)
10. Fillmore Station
11. Fox Theatre Station
12. Hockeytown Station
13. Foxtown Parking Garage Station

The debate continues whether to add an additional five stops on this stretch to continue to foster business growth, as every dollar invested in transit brings back six dollars in private investment. A developer has already pledged that if the train gets built, that he will construct a giant Target store with glass tornado-shaped towers and an 800 space parking garage that looks like a slug monster with a bewildering interior green space on the most prominent Campus Martius real-estate available.

Phase 2 is to add connections to several other garages as well as express service to each stadium during peak travel times.

The design of the cars has yet to be chosen, so it's not clear how the trains will route around Campus Martius. The top contender for car design would individually envelop each passengers automobile so they could ride in the comfort they're used to, while saving gas money.

This "pod" design raises the cost. But GM, having recovered from bankruptcy and recently adding friendship bracelets and large flat-screen televisions to towers of its downtown headquarters, has struck a deal to fill every other car-pod with a floor model of each of their flagship products, in a brilliant display of outside-the-box mobile marketing.

Though all parties have finally agreed on a route, it remains to be seen whether the train will run in a fanciful zig-zag pattern, so that it can be used to cross the street, or tunnel directly through buildings in order to be "sporty" and "fun". A growing consensus says that the wisest compromise is to do both.

To fill a significant gap in the funding budget, Lego has pledged $47 million provided three of the cars are made from their iconic plastic construction blocks.

The final car of the train will play an 8-bit version of "Do Your Ears Hang Low?", with an electronic voice saying "HELLO!" every few minutes, and will sell ice cream to children.

[casscorridor]

Matt Cullen is doing a serious disservice to Detroit. His ignorance and arrogance is outrageous, the belief that curb-side rail will add increase benefit to surrounding businesses is based in myth, not sound evidence. The FTA, DDOT want a fast, center-running light rail [[with a dedicated lane) because it will be of be far more efficient, and offer superior service to a curb-running streetcar. FTA gives out money based on how if improves current service, which is made up of bus riders, currently at least 90% black and working-class. They don't give out money based on how it will boost business. But this is a win-win, as center-running will be far better for business because it will transport customers more efficiently than a curb-running. Good Luck getting people to ride a slow-moving, street car with dozens of stops from the city limits to Downtown. But if it was fast, and had less frequent stops, people could get there far easier, and more people would use the system. This equals more potential customers for surrounding businesses. Matt Cullen and M1 need to listen to the transit experts on this one. Or else they will single-handedly hold the blame for corrupting our transportation future.