Is college right for everyone? Diane Rehm show discussion.

**1KielsonDrive** · May-23-11, 10:57 PM

Check out the discussion, "Is college right for everyone" on Diane Rehm's May 16th show. Not the usual bullshit about our educational system.

lilpup · May-23-11, 11:14 PM

Link

http://thedianerehmshow.org/shows/20...right-everyone

**1KielsonDrive** · May-24-11, 10:46 AM

Originally Posted by lilpup

Link

http://thedianerehmshow.org/shows/20...right-everyone

Thank you.

**partyhardy** · May-24-11, 10:48 AM

Without reviewing the video [[don't have time right now!)...I will say this...college is not right for everyone...but it's necessary to get a decent job...

Avis requires a college degree to work at the service counter...I see requirements of a college degree to become an assistant manager at Wendy's...

Either we need to toughen up the high school curriculum...or make college more affordable...we can't keep this trend going on forever...we're going to tank our entire economy...mark my words...

**1KielsonDrive** · May-24-11, 04:57 PM

Originally Posted by partyhardy

Without reviewing the video [[don't have time right now!)...I will say this...college is not right for everyone...but it's necessary to get a decent job...

Avis requires a college degree to work at the service counter...I see requirements of a college degree to become an assistant manager at Wendy's...

Either we need to toughen up the high school curriculum...or make college more affordable...we can't keep this trend going on forever...we're going to tank our entire economy...mark my words...

And you just touched upon some of the issues discussed in the Diane Rehm show I mentioned.

**gazhekwe** · May-24-11, 05:20 PM

This trend has been going on for many decades. Employers keep upping the requirements for the same jobs.Once, people could get a good job with a sixth grade education. After awhile, the samr jobs required high school. Same jobs, different standards.

A classic case was Griggs vs Duke Power decided in 1971. At Duke Power the entry level jobs were the lowest paying. These were also the only jobs that African Americans could hold. High school graduation was not required, nor was it common. White people hired into those jobs could get promoted based on experience and work history. In 1955, the company added the requirement of a high school diploma for higher paying jobs. With the passage of Title VII, US Civil Right Act of 1964, the company removed the racial restriction on promotions, but kept the high school diploma requirement and added an IQ test for promotions. In that community it was rare for African Americans to graduate from high school. They were selected for promotion at a much lower rate.

A study determined that people who had been promoted in the past without the diploma or the IQ tests did the jobs just as well as those who had met the requirements. Therefore the court ruled that the tests and diploma did not properly determine eligibility for promotion.

Same thing happened in the 70s when for example, the state of Michigan began to require MSW for entry level social work positions, when a BSW was sufficient before. The previously hired BSWs were grandfathered in. Many automotive engineers worked their way up without degrees, then when the degrees became a requirement and times got tough, they had to take a hike, even though they were doing their jobs for many years.

At some point, we quit looking at whether job duties required the additional degrees, and started accepting these as the norm. With the way Michigan is going on education, I am wondering if we need to start re-examining that. Or pretty soon, only the children of the well-to-do will be able to qualify for jobs beyond grunt work.

lilpup · May-24-11, 08:21 PM

On the other hand - the new VW plant in TN is hiring high school grads and then teaching them more. Starting wage + benefits package = $27/hr vs wage + benefits for Detroit's gang = $52/hr

**Ray1936** · May-24-11, 08:38 PM

The one thing a lot of folks gotta start doing is to stop looking down their noses at those who have lesser education than they.

Don't get uppity with the plumber when your toilet is overflowing.

**Kevgoblue** · May-25-11, 10:49 AM

Originally Posted by gazhekwe

At some point, we quit looking at whether job duties required the additional degrees, and started accepting these as the norm. With the way Michigan is going on education, I am wondering if we need to start re-examining that. Or pretty soon, only the children of the well-to-do will be able to qualify for jobs beyond grunt work.

With our elected "leaders" being so supportive of big business and their desire to outsource everything possible in the quest for cheaper labor, I would be inclined to think that this is the plan. Price education out of reach for the masses. Then the children of the elite are guarenteed what few good paying jobs remain. A sort of legalized discrimination.
Don't want to disrupt the status quo.

**1KielsonDrive** · May-25-11, 01:23 PM

Originally Posted by gazhekwe

This trend has been going on for many decades. Employers keep upping the requirements for the same jobs.Once, people could get a good job with a sixth grade education. After awhile, the samr jobs required high school. Same jobs, different standards.

A classic case was Griggs vs Duke Power decided in 1971. At Duke Power the entry level jobs were the lowest paying. These were also the only jobs that African Americans could hold. High school graduation was not required, nor was it common. White people hired into those jobs could get promoted based on experience and work history. In 1955, the company added the requirement of a high school diploma for higher paying jobs. With the passage of Title VII, US Civil Right Act of 1964, the company removed the racial restriction on promotions, but kept the high school diploma requirement and added an IQ test for promotions. In that community it was rare for African Americans to graduate from high school. They were selected for promotion at a much lower rate.

A study determined that people who had been promoted in the past without the diploma or the IQ tests did the jobs just as well as those who had met the requirements. Therefore the court ruled that the tests and diploma did not properly determine eligibility for promotion.

Same thing happened in the 70s when for example, the state of Michigan began to require MSW for entry level social work positions, when a BSW was sufficient before. The previously hired BSWs were grandfathered in. Many automotive engineers worked their way up without degrees, then when the degrees became a requirement and times got tough, they had to take a hike, even though they were doing their jobs for many years.

At some point, we quit looking at whether job duties required the additional degrees, and started accepting these as the norm. With the way Michigan is going on education, I am wondering if we need to start re-examining that. Or pretty soon, only the children of the well-to-do will be able to qualify for jobs beyond grunt work.

Excellent post. Thank you.

**1KielsonDrive** · May-25-11, 01:24 PM

Originally Posted by Ray1936

The one thing a lot of folks gotta start doing is to stop looking down their noses at those who have lesser education than they.

Don't get uppity with the plumber when your toilet is overflowing.

Right on! Thank you.

**1KielsonDrive** · May-25-11, 01:30 PM

Originally Posted by Kevgoblue

With our elected "leaders" being so supportive of big business and their desire to outsource everything possible in the quest for cheaper labor, I would be inclined to think that this is the plan. Price education out of reach for the masses. Then the children of the elite are guarenteed what few good paying jobs remain. A sort of legalized discrimination.
Don't want to disrupt the status quo.

I agree. As it stands now, if you're not rich, you spend your life working and risk not investing enough for retirement, which may not be there anyway with budget and SS/Medicare cuts, to put your kids through college. It's great to assist your children, one of the most noble things you can do, but where does it leave you when you're up there in years in need of assistance?

**Hypestyles** · May-26-11, 01:27 PM

in the long run, USA is going to have to take a more serious look at universalized education, post 12th grade-- putting people on vocational or degreed paths, but most of the cost is subsidized through taxes.. the conceit in the USA of young people having to go into debt to the tune of $80,000+ to get a bachelors [[or beyond), then struggling to find compensatory work, is ridiculous..