Ford Auditorium coming down?

[English]

What I'm hearing from my new neighbors here in the East Riverfront district is that Ford Auditorium is going to come down, then Chene Park will come down, and an open-air neo-Chene Park amphitheatre will be built on the Ford Auditorium site. Chene Park and adjacent areas will become upscale condos.

When I pointed out the utter failure of the Watermark Condos project, they told me that the economy will get better and that project will get revitalized.

Oh well. I hate to be a cynic, but given Detroit's recent history, they'll raze Ford Auditorium and let the spot stay vacant -- or better yet, "pave paradise and put up a parking lot."

[Gistok]

English... I doubt very much that anyone in the city government has thought much past just tearing down Ford Auditorium. I bet that they don't even know if a large amphitheatre will fit into that site...

Look at Chene Park.... it is a huge hill [[and canopy) blocking the view of the river from the north. When the folks at CAY finally get a clue that there's a parking structure underneath the auditorium, and also the Detroit/Windsor Tunnel to contend with... they may have second thoughts about trucking in thousands of tons of dirt to block their view of the river when they finally figure out that they'll have to build up in order to get an amphitheatre the size they want into that site. And who knows... they may have to have it face the Dodge Fountain, instead of the water.

And then there's that canopy to put up on top of the amphitheatre... think of the stunning 60 ft. tall sails and mounds blocking the view of the water from Jefferson... lovely indeed...
http://cheneparkdetroit.com/wp-conte...epark_6401.jpg

Just think of the millions of dollars that was spent building a 3,000 seat amphitheatre back in the 70s, only to rip it all apart to build a 5,000 seat amphitheatre in the 1980s... and now rip it all down again... no wonder the city has no money... but at least it will have another underutuilized amphitheatre... like the previous two....

But at least if they move the amphitheatre away from Chene Park, the noise won't filter into all fo the "planned" luxury condos and apartments... if anything ever gets built...

[detroitbob]

I have already stated my feelings a number of times about FA, it's drawbacks, it's limitations and some of it's good points. Tonite, I fondly remember the many performaces I attended, most especially those by that mad little dynamo of a conductor, the late Hungarian Antal Dorati and the equallly great Swede, Mr. Ehrling. [[Neemi Jarvi conducted most of his tenure at Orchestra Hall) Too many sololists to count, many now deceased. Oh, if only some of those evenings could be recreated at Orchestra Hall.

And Gistok, Mrs. Edsel Ford, the Ford Mtr Fund, the Ford Mtr Co. and the DSO spend multi millions on the several failed acoustic upgrades sadly all to no effect.

[Gistok]

Detroitbob... I stand corrected... you know more about that venue than I. However, when I looked at the recent images of the auditorium.... the upgrades that were done did not seem be be apparent [[at least not to me).

Of the many former movie palaces that have been converted to to symphonic uses, such as Heinz Hall in Pittsburgh, Powell Hall in St. Louis and Youngstown's Powers Auditorium... I see sound baffles inserted into the ceiling domes and sidewalls, moveable shells within the procenium arch, and the like.

All I saw in the Ford Auditorium photos was wavy panels, similar to NYC Lincoln Center's Avery Fisher Hall and other more modern venues. Obviously much of the work that was done to try to improve the acoustics was not visible... or just not apparent to me. And just as obviously... it didn't work!

Also, my previous rant about moving the amphitheatre to Hart Plaza partly stems from the fact that I watched 20-30 years ago when the installation of Chene Park back when the original park with an amphitheatre for 3,000 seats was installed on the riverfront, and watched again a decade later as it was all torn up to expand the seating [[at great expense) to 5,000 seats. Now this 3rd attempt to "get it right" in Hart Plaza keeps reminding me of how much money was squandered to get to a performance venue that is only usable about 4 months out of the year.

Also, I visualize a construction with a canopy resembling the Rosa Park Transit Center tents... being constructed into a Civic Center where such a design was never part of the original scheme of the City Beautiful movement of the 1950s [[no matter how flawed its' original design was).

And after looking at images of Chene Park... I wonder just how much of Hart Plaza [[besides Ford Auditorium) will have to be torn up to provide for such a large seating venue. Perhaps Atwater St. will need a larger tunnel to handle this.

Again... with all the budgetary problems the city has... we may end up with just an underground bunker [[Ford Auditorium parking structure)... with a treeless grassy terrrace on top... for many years to come.

[detroitbob]

Gistok:

Same acoustical experts that worked on the various redo's of Avery Fisher consulted on Ford...the dried dragons blood red wall treatment was their final hurrah.

I haven't talked to anyone in a couple of weeks but I presume the Aoelian-Skinner has been evacuated to a warehouse to await a yet uncertain future.

I shall miss the blue granite facade and even the spacious motor lobby. Not the auditorium.

When the DSO "tested" the Michigan Theatre the idea was to do a job akin to Heinz Hall or Powell Hall---of course that came to naught.

[Gistok]

Detroitbob... the movie palace conversion work that was done to create St. Louis's Powell Hall, and Youngstown's Powers Auditorium... all respected the former movie palace architect's work [[both Rapp & Rapp designs like our former Michigan Theatre)..

But what they did to Pittsburgh's Heinz Hall was in my opinion... awful [[the auditorium, not the lobby, which they kept pretty much intact). If someone were to take the former Michigan and restore the auditorium... restoring the suriviving plasterwork only [[ceiling and procenium)... and just made everything else flat plasterwork... it would look nicer than the hatchet job they did to convert the former Loew's Penn Theatre [[also a Rapp & Rapp design) into Heinz Hall.

And as far as Ford Auditorium goes... it would be nice if they could somehow salvage the pearl blue Swedish Granite. But salvage is not in the playbook of Detroit powerbrokers...

[Cincinnati_Kid]

Why call it senseless? Detroit needs to get rid of as many distinctive, historic buildings as possible so the future [[whenever they get around to building it) can be developed with generic steel & glass-clad buildings that would feel just as familiar as anything in Philly, San Jose or any other mid-size American city.

Detroit is mid-sized as of the recent census, Philly and San Jose are not. Philly is still the nation's fifth largest city, barely holding off Phoenix.

[flipp32]

Probably one of the poorest example of that era's architecture; as well as being one of the worst examples of acoustics. However, Ford Auditorium did have a good result in the end: if it had been a better venue then Orchestra Hall might be a parking structure now.

[Gistok]

Welcome to DYES flipp32... a very interesting way to put it.... it helped save Orchestra Hall...

Both Orchestra Hall and the Detroit Opera House [[Capitol Theatre) were about as close to death as any theatres have been and later brought back to life

Maybe the Ilitch's can set a new record with the United Artists....

[canuck]

Ford Auditorium presents so many challenges to proper spatial relationships, it's not even funny.

The Auditorium has no physical relation to anything around it. It's situated on a roadway that's too wide, set too far back from the sidewalk, is surrounded by nothing but some scattered trees, and pays no respect to the Renaissance Center, Hart Plaza, or the riverfront. It's as if the damned thing just fell from outer space and happened to land on that spot.

In addition, that front elevation is something hideous. There is nothing to suggest that it is a venue for fine and performing arts. In fact, it looks like one of those God-awful Bose 901 speakers--and from what people here have posted, the acoustics are probably just about as good. Rather than embrace it's arriving patrons and welcome them inside, that front elevation SCREAMS at you, and it says, "Stay the hell out!".

Ford Auditorium is a fine example of bunker architecture, conceived in the days when we were shitting ourselves on a daily basis re: the Soviets. Ironically, in doing so, we copied their architecture to a T. Can you honestly look at Ford Auditorium, compare it to a place like say, Hill Auditorium in Ann Arbor, then maintain that the former is some kind of masterwork of modernist architecture? What a crock of shit!

Modernist architecture was all about living in fear and blandness, anyway. It began the movement of constructing everything as cheaply as possible. Modernism was the onset of "the building as a machine for living". It ignored its environment, segregated people, and raped souls. One can make a case that this entire movement was a step toward mechanizing society, removing any vestige of artistry and the feminine elements from our architecture. It's entire purpose was to turn its back on the city, and turn life indoors, and into the automobile. I'm not sure that keeping such buildings around is a healthy attitude for a place that seeks to make itself more liveable.

Ford Auditorium has no redeeming qualities. Tear that schitt down.

Why can't you leave a tliny nugget of anything left unsaid for someone else to say it...?
Any old ways, you have it down right GP right down to the lousy Bose configuration. lol.
I dont feel much pain at the loss of that building but I would of a building that had been well designed and well used, such as a Hudson's or another older skyscraper that delivered the goods both visually and technically. I hope the Plaza will become a better venue for Detroiters if the park planners do it right.

[SaintMe]

My two cents: If the auditorium is torn down and 50 years from now if we decide we miss it, it can be easily replicated. Buildings like the University Club, Cass Tech, The Metropolitan Building . . . not so much. Comparing the Ford auditorium to the city's late 19th/early20th century buildings isn't really fair.

It's like comparing this:

To this:

[Stinger4me]

If I recall watching them build the auditorium does that qulaify me as an "Old Fart"?

[Whitehouse]

If I recall watching them build the auditorium does that qulaify me as an "Old Fart"?

Yes, but we still love you.

[wolverine]

Despite that I'm kind of a fan of modernist architecture, I won't be missing Ford Auditorium. To be honest, I think all of Hart Plaza is a lousy design for civic space. Yes, it works during large events....because it can't be beat up or destroyed. All that concrete and stone needs to go. The exposed service areas need to be covered up. I'd hope with the Cobo renovation and Ford Auditorium demo they can just start over. Obviously I'd want to see the sculptures return, but the whole layout and feel of the place needs to change.

[Rocko]

This building is modern, having been constructed in 1961. Does it follow the "bunker" "Soviet" style too?

I used to think all mid-century modern architecture was ugly, too. Then, as I learned more about it, I started to appreciate some of it. The photo is of the Michigan State Medical Society building in East Lansing. Does anyone here feel that 1 Woodward [[the MichCon Building) is ugly and should be torn down? Yes? No? Turns out both the medical society building and 1 Woodward were designed by the same famous architect. So was the World Trade Center in New York. His name is Minoru Yamasaki, and his architect firm was located in Michigan for the second half of this famous architect's life.

Turns out that despite what it looks like now, the area that become Hart Plaza was in fact planned. Remember, when Ford Auditorium was built in the late 50s, the RenCen was not there, Hart Plaza was not there, the Mariner's Church was not there, heck, even Cobo was not there. And Jefferson was only then being converted into the broad avenue that it is today. There was a plan for the area....it was called the Civic Center plan. It included Ford Auditorium, the City County Building, and the Ford-UAW Center. I can't vouch for how good the plan was, but it WAS planned.

Sometimes things are historically significant based upon something other than architecture. Lafayette Park was planned, and that's partially why it's significant.

I DON'T FIND FORD AUDITORIUM TO BE ATTRACTIVE. The way Hart Plaza has transformed over the past 25 years, I don't think it fits in well. I do think the space could be better suited for something else. Actually, in my opinion, all of Hart Plaza between Bates and the Ford UAW building can be ripped out and re-done. But others will argue the significance of the building and its place in the plan.

There is a state-wide program administered by the State Historic Preservation Office of Michigan to document and survey and tell the story of Modern design in Michigan. It's called Michigan Modern. Check it out!: http://www.michiganmodern.org/. I've learned a ton about modern architecture and the people who designed it. It's an interesting story. Modern buildings are coming into their own now as many of them approach 50 years of age. They are being more fully documented and researched for inclusion in the National Register of Historic Places. They're a part of our past, however untraditional they may be.

If Ford Auditorium must come down, and I believe it will [[though using federal funds that should be used for neighborhood demos is, in my opinion, the wrong use for that money), I really hope that some of the marble exterior panels can be saved and re-used somehow. I also how the historic Skinner organ inside can be rescued and moved to another location and one day be heard again.

[eriedearie]

Awww - That's where I received my high school diploma from Detroit Mayor Jerry Cavanaugh. He gave the Commencement Address for the graduating students of Wilbur Wright High School July 21, 1965.

Wilbur Wright is gone - now Ford Auditorium. It was just built in 1955, the year I moved to Detroit. Okay, it's official - I'm older than dirt.

[leland_palmer]

Some death fences are already up.

I was on the people mover yesterday and went by Hart Plaza and noticed a big Adamo sign on the Ford Auditorium.

Looks like its coming down soon...

On one hand, I never cared for the place, but all this senseless demolition in the city has got to stop!

[mikeg19]

Has the city "officially" stated an amphitheater is going to be built on this site yet or is that still in the pipe dream phase?

[Detroit500]

Its still in the hoping and dreaming phase.

[Zacha341]

Wow! I'd heard M-W graduations where held at the Ford. By the time I came thru [[late 70's) they were graduating students at the Adalai Stevenson building......

Awww - That's where I received my high school diploma from Detroit Mayor Jerry Cavanaugh. He gave the Commencement Address for the graduating students of Wilbur Wright High School July 21, 1965.

Wilbur Wright is gone - now Ford Auditorium. It was just built in 1955, the year I moved to Detroit. Okay, it's official - I'm older than dirt.

[Zacha341]

Are there still homeless people squatting inside?

Some death fences are already up.

[leland_palmer]

Are there still homeless people squatting inside?

There's a dumpster out back, so they've probably chased them out.

[56packman]

Detroitbob-the Aeolian Skinner came out in April, it is in storage now.

[Lloyd]

Why call it senseless? Detroit needs to get rid of as many distinctive, historic buildings as possible so the future [[whenever they get around to building it) can be developed with generic steel & glass-clad buildings that would feel just as familiar as anything in Philly, San Jose or any other mid-size American city.

I think, or hope anyway, that this is sarcastic but, Philly? Really? Have you ever been to Philly? Here's a picture of their city hall from down the road.

[beachboy]

Detroitbob-the Aeolian Skinner came out in April, it is in storage now.

Thank you, 56packman, for the good news! Do you know about the condition of the instrument? Chests? Console?

BTW, you gonna be at ATOS conv in RI? It would be nice to meet you...