Welcome To Trump World

DACA did not start until 2012 and expanded to the work force in 2014 ,I guess places like Apple were almost bankrupt because all they had to rely on was low skilled American citizens.

They had 20 years to deal with their immigration status and until the previous president put a band aid on they would still be under the radar.

Without that band aide and more public support and recognition and rights then actual American citizens they would have been deported or under the radar like they would be in any other country in the world.

Saying the country has been saved by illegal immigration is a bit of a stretch.

Fine give the 800,000 amnesty right after we pick 800,000 American citizens that are in jail to give the same amnesty to.You really would not want to say that being in this country illegally guarantees you more rights then an American born citizen,it kinda looks bad.

Because they were not law abiding from day one.

Off note,the illegals that were in the apartment tower in London are now upset at the British Red Cross,it seems as though the white cross is a symbol of Christianity and it offends them to receive help from such an organization.

Completely overlooking that the white cross is actually the Swiss flag turned upside down as the red cross was originally established in Switzerland,and based on zero religious aspects.

This was after they received an immediate $5000 deposit and approval of another $40,000 cash for relocation purposes.

I guess in this day and age it is better to be an illegal then a citizen,you certainly get more rights.

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Originally Posted by Johnnny5

Better yet, take the 3+ billion we give to Israel every year and pay for our own border security!

I have no problem with congress making DACA permanent, but Trump better get something massive in return. A generic promise of increased border security and enforcement isn't going to cut it.

I'd be in support of DACA legislation if it included mandated and enforceable E-Verify nationwide. It would also need to include an enforceable guarantee that proper action would be taken against non DACA eligible illegal aliens currently in the U.S.

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First it was Peggy Noonan on drugs saying something kind about Hillary today. Now I'm basically agreeing with you on all of your above points except, I'm guessing, I would set more stringent standards for letting young illegal aliens remain here than you. I would add that the cheating employers of illegal aliens, who profit by hiring cheaper foreign labor, should be made to pay for illegal immigration costs. That would simultaneously pay for some costs such as education and dry up the demand for cheaper illegal caste labor. Neither Trump nor Democrats ever mention cheating employers.

DACA does suppress wages in that a larger supply of labor drives without an equal increase in demand drives down wages. Also, free educations for young illegal aliens reduces the quality and quantity of educational opportunities for legal Americans unless there is some additional educational funding. That's all basic supply and demand. Also, not every young illegal alien speaks immaculate English etc. as you chose to idealize them. Some good, some bad like everyone else. For the most part, Apple and other Silicon Valley companies hire janitors, bus drivers, cafeteria workers through third parties so they don't get ensnarled with low wage and benefit issues. I suspect many more Hispanics work for Apple under such caste conditions. Labor shortages, to me, are a good thing spurring wage increases and allowing working Americans a larger share of national income.

Disney brings in high skilled IT guys from India and pays a lower wage that pushed out the existing IT guys after they trained their replacements.

Middle Eastern lottery winners coming over are hardly highly educated.

It is more about repopulating verses bringing in highly skilled because they cannot find them here.

The adverage DACA is 20 something so no different then any other fresh out of college student with little hands on expirence,it does flood the market with oversupply of job seekers and drive the wages down.

I would like to actually see the origin breakdown of Apple employees.

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Originally Posted by aj3647

How does DACA suppress wages? These are kids who speak immaculate English, grew up in the United States, were educated in the American public school system and now attend U.S. colleges. They aren't the types of immigrants who are performing unskilled labor jobs for $8 an hour, undercutting American workers. You could make that argument with illegal immigrants who crossed the border as adults and were not raised or educated in the United States, but not with these DACA kids. They grew up here, fully immersed in American culture, they most certainly are not doing backbreaking manual labor for slave labor wages anymore than any one else raised here would be willing to do those jobs. They work at places like Apple [[250 Dreamers work there) for the same wages that their American counterparts work for. They aren't out picking strawberries in the fields.

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The requirements for DACA were simply being here illegally before the age of 16, a lack of a serious criminal record and attending or completed high school/GED. The majority of DACA recipients are not working at Apple, nor are they college educated or highly skilled labor [[Just like the majority of young Americans). Many are in low/unskilled jobs and directly compete for those jobs against Americans and legal immigrants with similar educational backgrounds. There's simply no way you can add 800k to the labor pool and not have a negative effect on wages.

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Now we have making a statement during the National Anthem about whether you like/dislike Trump or agree/disagree with him a fucking thing.

Thanks Donald. That's not making America great again.

I have zero confidence that he is capable of distinguishing what is a actual problem this country has from the ones he enjoys getting people angry about.

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Originally Posted by ABetterDetroit

Now we have making a statement during the National Anthem about whether you like/dislike Trump or agree/disagree with him a fucking thing.

Thanks Donald. That's not making America great again.

I have zero confidence that he is capable of distinguishing what is a actual problem this country has from the ones he enjoys getting people angry about.

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Your right. IT SHOULDN'T BE AN ISSUE.

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Originally Posted by GMan

Your right. IT SHOULDN'T BE AN ISSUE.

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You trot out dead soldiers as props when it's politically convenient to do so. Meanwhile...

http://www.military.com/daily-news/2...bled-vets.html

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The plan to cut financial support for aging and disabled veterans included in President Donald Trump's $1.1 trillion federal budget proposal has led to bitterness and confusion among the estimated 225,000 vets who could lose the payments.
The reductions may also trigger a political backlash against the president, who made reforming and increasing support for the Department of Veterans Affairs a major part of his campaign against Hillary Clinton.

"Make that guy in the White House keep his promise to all of us veterans, lest we all fall by the wayside and be left on the battlefield," said a former Army staff sergeant who served in Vietnam.

"Please don't do this to us," said a sailor who served on ships in the Tonkin Gulf during the Vietnam War. "My wife and I already live our later years in constant uncertainty. We thought our VA benefits were fairly safe."

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I would also point out that those soldiers died to defend the right of Americans to engage in peaceful protest.

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Originally Posted by aj3647

You trot out dead soldiers as props when it's politically convenient to do so. Meanwhile...

http://www.military.com/daily-news/2...bled-vets.html



I would also point out that those soldiers died to defend the right of Americans to engage in peaceful protest.

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Then find a different method of protesting. I was taught to respect the flag.
You did military duty AJ, you always saluted the rank, not the individual.

In Trump's case you get a twofer. You can salute the rank individual. :)

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Originally Posted by GMan

Then find a different method of protesting. I was taught to respect the flag.
You did military duty AJ, you always saluted the rank, not the individual.

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I'm not going to make the mistake of thinking that anything Colin Kaepernick does will ever meet your approval, regardless of how he does it. It doesn't matter what method of protesting black people adopt, there will always be a significant percentage of White America that will militantly oppose it regardless of how silent and how peaceful it is.

Here's a question for you, why is it that when black athletes get political, they're told by white people to "shut up and play" or "stick to sports and stay out of politics" or "you're paid to play, not to make political statements" and yet when white conservative entertainers like Kid Rock and Ted Nugent "get political" at their shows, the same people NEVER tell them to "shut up and play" or "stick to music, not politics?" Why the double standard? For that matter, why is LeBron James not allowed to offer an opinion on politics, but Trump is free to offer his opinion on sports? I guess I must have missed the part of Trump's biography that made him a sports expert, but he's certainly able to express opinions on whatever subject he likes on Twitter, whereas black athletes are expected to be silent and entertain. I guess since We the Taxpayer are paying Trump to govern, he should "shut up and govern" and not offer up his uninformed opinion on various non-political matters that he is not an expert in.

Here's another question: why is kneeling for the anthem considered unpatriotic, but waving the Confederate flag isn't? Pretty sure the USA fought the bloodiest war in its history against the CSA, but somehow it's OK to wave the flag of the side that was shooting at the people who were carrying the Stars and Stripes on the battlefield and killed more Americans on the battlefield than the Nazis and Islamic terrorists combined. From my own perspective, I consider it deeply unpatriotic and offensive to wave the terrorist flag of the Confederacy when my home state of Michigan lost 15,000 men battling the Confederacy in defense of the United States of America.

I guess it's all about perspective then, isn't it?

AJ3647 I agree with everything you said. I just called the NFL, the players union - whatever that is called - The Lions and the Colts offices. I would call the White House for the 25th time but we all know nothing is going to change him and honestly, with everything he is doing right now, football is the least of my President Trump worries at the present. People who think that kneeling at a football game disrespects our military present or past don't understand and never will. Maybe they should watch Ken Burn's Vietnam and they will consider the horrors that our flag waving when it is helpful for him leader or turn off Fox and think for themselves. I am still holding out hope that Kapernick gets a new QB spot.

I think there is a thread about Kid Rock running for senator?

I think that kinda puts him in the political arena.

People pay good money to go watch a football game and forget about politics for a couple of hours and should not have to endure politics while trying to enjoy a game.

The players are payed big money to play the game that the crowds came to enjoy.

What they do on their off time is thier business.

It was okay to own slaves under the Stars and Stripes and wipe out the Indians but not under the stars and bars?

While they were kneeling for injustice 125 of their brothers were shot in Chicago,but that was okay,because why?

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Originally Posted by Richard

I think there is a thread about Kid Rock running for senator?

I think that kinda puts him in the political arena.

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Has he officially declared a run for office? Filed the paperwork? Oh, I guess just "thinking" about running for office makes him different then. What if Colin Kaepernick is thinking about running for office, does that make it suddenly ok then? What an absolutely horseshit excuse to justify your hypocritical double standard.

Also, 125 people were shot in Chicago this weekend? Really? Source? Pull that number right out of your own asshole, did you?

aj3647;534249]I'm not going to make the mistake of thinking that anything Colin Kaepernick does will ever meet your approval, regardless of how he does it.
Nor does it have to. He is not the issue. He's just an overpaid athlete.

Here's a question for you, why is it that when black athletes get political, they're told by white people to "shut up and play" or "stick to sports and stay out of politics" or "you're paid to play, not to make political statements" and yet when white conservative entertainers like Kid Rock and Ted Nugent "get political" at their shows, the same people NEVER tell them to "shut up and play" or "stick to music, not politics?" Why the double standard?
I've heard a lot of people tell Ted N. and Kid Rock, to shut up when speaking their mind but I've never seen them dish the country by ignoring the anthem.


I guess since We the Taxpayer are paying Trump to govern, he should "shut up and govern" and not offer up his uninformed opinion on various non-political matters that he is not an expert in.
I too wish Trump would shut up sometimes. But I thought the same about Obama too.

Here's another question: why is kneeling for the anthem considered unpatriotic, but waving the Confederate flag isn't? Pretty sure the USA fought the bloodiest war in its history against the CSA, but somehow it's OK to wave the flag of the side that was shooting at the people who were carrying the Stars and Stripes on the battlefield and killed more Americans on the battlefield than the Nazis and Islamic terrorists combined. From my own perspective, I consider it deeply unpatriotic and offensive to wave the terrorist flag of the Confederacy when my home state of Michigan lost 15,000 men battling the Confederacy in defense of the United States of America.
I'm not a southerner So I can't answer why the passion still exists but I usually see the Confederate flag waved in conjunction with the American flag. Not dishing the American or replacing it.

I guess it's all about perspective then, isn't it?

No it's about unity and respect for this great nation, as flawed as it is. This protest about what suits the day does nothing but help destroy this country and weaken it for what???
We are on course for a conflict in Asia and increased hostilities in the middle east. How is this so called protest helping strengthen this country???
Into the void created by the anarchists the socialists marched and cheered.

God Help Us!

This is all sort of bizarre. It's a football game not a veteran's funeral. Football has nothing to do with flag veneration. How did we ever get to a place where a casual playing of the Star Spangled Banner custom evolved into flag veneration ceremonies with rules of conduct? If millionaire sports figures, Hollywood actors, singers, etc. want to make social statements, that's between them and their employers, and ticket purchasers. Genuflecting is reverent and respectful anyway. If those players had wanted to insult the flag, they could have turned their backs or made finger or fist gestures. They didn't.

gen·u·flect verb [[from Google dictionary)ˈ

• lower one's body briefly by bending one knee to the ground, typically in worship or as a sign of respect.
  "she genuflected and crossed herself"

"There used to be a distinction between battle dress and what you wore the rest of the time, even during a world war. And why on earth is it necessary to fly Air Force fighter jets over the stadium before the Super Bowl? Who authorizes the spend for that? " -Jim Kunstler

aj, "Three men were shot to death and at least 36 other people were wounded in shootings across Chicago between Friday evening and Monday morning"

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Originally Posted by oladub

This is all sort of bizarre.... Genuflecting is reverent and respectful anyway....

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Thanks for pointing that out. I was about to mention it but hadn't followed the issue enough to comment yet.

All I saw was a picture of three football players genuflecting and wondered what all the contrived indignity was about. There's already a football-related precedent called Tebowing.

If anything it's more respectful, not less.

I'm left to wonder whether it was done in part to test the IQ of the audience.

John Oliver - NFL Anthem Protest.

For proof on how the "outrage" has nothing to do with respecting the flag, take a look at the response to what the Dallas Cowboys did before the Monday Night Football game.

They knelt as a team *before* the national anthem and then stood *for* the anthem. So absolutely nothing disrespectful towards the flag...and they got booed for it. Booed. Trump even tweeted about it:

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The booing at the NFL football game last night, when the entire Dallas team dropped to its knees, was loudest I have ever heard. Great anger

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Why is there "great anger" [[Trump's words) about the Dallas Cowboys silently kneeling before the National Anthem? How can that silent, peaceful gesture which in no way disrespects the anthem, the flag, or anyone else possibly bother ANYONE? Again, they did not kneel during the anthem. And yet everyone got pissed off anyways.

Which just proves the point I made to Gman...a lot of white people aren't going to be happy with *any* form of black protest.

<Black people kneel during the anthem>
White people: "YOU CAN'T DO THAT, IT'S DISREPECTING THE FLAG AND THE TROOPS!"
<Black people kneel before the anthem, but stand for the anthem>
White people: "YOU CAN'T DO THAT EITHER BECAUSE ERRRRR...UMMMM...REASONS!"

So we can finally stop pretending that it's all about "respecting the flag?"

If the teams want to kneel in solidarity before the anthem then it's their [[the NFL's ) time. I bet they could even sell a commercial spot during it.
But it is our NATION'S ANTHEM not the NFL's.

So go ahead do that.

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Southern Hospitality

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Originally Posted by GMan

If the teams want to kneel in solidarity before the anthem then it's their [[the NFL's ) time. I bet they could even sell a commercial spot during it.
But it is our NATION'S ANTHEM not the NFL's.

So go ahead do that.

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Who said it was the NFL's anthem?

But it's great that you think they can kneel before the anthem. It seems everyone else didn't get the memo though, judging by the boos and the general response online to what the Cowboys did.

Just out of curiosity, what is your opinion on Jehovah's Witnesses who refuse [[for religious reasons) to engage in displays of patriotism, to include pledging allegiance to the U.S. flag? Are they also disrespecting the flag and shitting on the sacrifice of dead soldiers? Should they be fired from their jobs?

I can't imagine that the kneeling and reaction to kneeling will go very far. Its probably a passing hot button issue. After all, what are a bunch of guys going to be doing on Sunday afternoon if this persists? Team owners are going to find their way out of this soon too or they will lose million$. This fiasco won't help Trump who would better spend his time showing up in a Puerto Rican relief plane and players will face pay cuts to the extent the kneeling continues. Even if the kneeling continues and intensifies, there might be at least one beneficiary: youth soccer. It would be better for kids anyway. Soccer has fewer injuries, can be played into one's thirties, requires less equipment and insurance, and encourages more parent participation.

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Originally Posted by aj3647

Just out of curiosity, what is your opinion on Jehovah's Witnesses who refuse [[for religious reasons) to engage in displays of patriotism, to include pledging allegiance to the U.S. flag? Are they also disrespecting the flag and shitting on the sacrifice of dead soldiers? Should they be fired from their jobs?

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Jehovah's Witnesses are not intentionally sitting or kneeling as a political statement, their religion actually forbids them from doing something like that. Colin Kaepernick has stated his protest was because "he refuses to show pride in a country that oppresses black people". It seems like a rather inappropriate venue considering he was next to a line of 50 mostly black men being paid millions to play professional ball. To me it became offensive, and bordering on ridiculous when the rest of them decided to do the same.