World Series 1907 and 1909 @ Bennett Park

I found these....very large photo's in the LoC [[ why were these "huge" when I was making the thread.....and small when I submitted it? Now it sucks :[[)


First off we have the October 12, 1907 Chicago v. Detroit

http://lcweb2.loc.gov/service/pnp/pa...0/6a34430v.jpg





And this one here is the Oct 11, 1909 Pittsburgh v Detroit game.

Man....whatever happened to watching a game atop a telephone pole??? Damn liabilities!!!:D Why does it seem people back then were just plain fearless? Guess it wasn't too hard to crank one over the wall back then, eh?:rolleyes:

http://lcweb2.loc.gov/service/pnp/pa...0/6a29756v.jpg

Great photos, Magna. At that time, in the heart of the so-called "Dead Ball Era", homeruns as we know them were extremely rare, and teams would sell as many tickets as possible. Often they'd rope off sections of the outfield where fans would stand right on the field itself with literally a rope separating them and the outfielders, so that's why we see this sort of arrangement in old pictures of important games. That Pittsburgh vs Detroit game featured two of the greatest players in the history of the game - Ty Cobb for Detroit and Honus Wagner for Pittsburgh. Pittsburgh won the series in seven games facing a Detroit team that was returning for it's 3rd straight World Series.

The 1907 World Series featured an excellent Chicago Cubs team lead by the famous double play combination of Evers, Tinker and Chance. Their star pitcher, Mordecai "Three Finger" Brown pitched a seven hit shutout and completed the victory for the Cubs over the Tigers that year 4 games to nothing. Game 1 was called to an end after 12 innings due to "darkness" and was finished as a tie. What you have pictured here is the final game - Game 5 at Bennett Park.

I've seen pictures of World Series games at the Polo Grounds in New York where fans would sit in trees on Coogan's Bluff, a rise that overlooked the old stadium, just to catch a glimpse of the game. What they saw was just a fraction of the outfield, but you have to remember this was before radio, so the only updates anyone would get were hourly special editions of the newspaper and word of mouth so anything was better than nothing.

Great stuff, Magna, thanks for posting these.

Thanks...but I wish they were as big as I thought they'd be.

Here's links to'em

1907
http://lcweb2.loc.gov/service/pnp/pa...0/6a34430v.jpg

1909
http://lcweb2.loc.gov/service/pnp/pa...0/6a29756v.jpg

I assume that's Cobb in centerfield?

Are these pictures before they moved home plate?

Notice how spectators even scaled the utility poles.

Anything before 1912, homeplate was on the Michigan and Trumbull side.

I should scan them and post them, I got several photos from 1908 showing the grandstands

Quote:

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Originally Posted by sturge

I assume that's Cobb in centerfield?

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No, that's Sam Crawford in centerfield. Ty Cobb was in right field in both the 1907 and 1909 World Series.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by blackmath

Great photos, Magna. At that time, in the heart of the so-called "Dead Ball Era", homeruns as we know them were extremely rare, and teams would sell as many tickets as possible. Often they'd rope off sections of the outfield where fans would stand right on the field itself with literally a rope separating them and the outfielders, so that's why we see this sort of arrangement in old pictures of important games. That Pittsburgh vs Detroit game featured two of the greatest players in the history of the game - Ty Cobb for Detroit and Honus Wagner for Pittsburgh. Pittsburgh won the series in seven games facing a Detroit team that was returning for it's 3rd straight World Series.

The 1907 World Series featured an excellent Chicago Cubs team lead by the famous double play combination of Evers, Tinker and Chance. Their star pitcher, Mordecai "Three Finger" Brown pitched a seven hit shutout and completed the victory for the Cubs over the Tigers that year 4 games to nothing. Game 1 was called to an end after 12 innings due to "darkness" and was finished as a tie. What you have pictured here is the final game - Game 5 at Bennett Park.

I've seen pictures of World Series games at the Polo Grounds in New York where fans would sit in trees on Coogan's Bluff, a rise that overlooked the old stadium, just to catch a glimpse of the game. What they saw was just a fraction of the outfield, but you have to remember this was before radio, so the only updates anyone would get were hourly special editions of the newspaper and word of mouth so anything was better than nothing.

Great stuff, Magna, thanks for posting these.

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Here's a pic of Coogan's Bluff

Here's a pic of the players on Opening Day 1910 raising their American League Championship flag

Detroit Tigers lost the 1907, 1908 and the 1909 World Series. It would take up to the 1935 World Series to win.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Danny

Detroit Tigers lost the 1907, 1908 and the 1909 World Series. It would take up to the 1935 World Series to win.

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Here's the 1935 World Champions

http://a6.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphot..._2725680_n.jpg

So when they moved home plate, they basically shifted the playing field 90 degrees clockwise. In Tiger Stadium [[as we knew it), first base side was still the original grandstand, [[seen in the picture here as the third base line). It was also the last section to be torn down.

Does anyone have any old photos of the exterior? I seem to recall a picture or two in a kiosk at Comerica that look nothing like what we were used to seeing. Almost a spanish-stucco design, maybe? Anyone??

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Hamtragedy

So when they moved home plate, they basically shifted the playing field 90 degrees clockwise. In Tiger Stadium [[as we knew it), first base side was still the original grandstand, [[seen in the picture here as the third base line). It was also the last section to be torn down.

Does anyone have any old photos of the exterior? I seem to recall a picture or two in a kiosk at Comerica that look nothing like what we were used to seeing. Almost a spanish-stucco design, maybe? Anyone??

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Here's some various exterior shots of Bennett Park as it evolved into Navin Field then Briggs Stadium...

Here's another exterior shot from the Bennett Park era, with a closeup of the ticket booths. I also stuck in a shot of what was on the site before it was a ballpark, a picture of the hay market.

Attachment 8796Attachment 8795Attachment 8794

Okay, so the spanish influenced design was limited to the ticket offices.

I don't know how many times I scaled that ramp on the Michigan side. Looking at several of the images, that ramp appears to have been original from Bennett, and unloaded at the top of the lower deck.

Thanx blackmath

Here are a few of the hundreds of origional glass negatives I have...

One of my favorite shots of old Bennett Park. The Tigers' Davy Jones batting in a snowstorm during the ballpark's last opening day in 1911.

http://info.detnews.com/photostore/o...ingday1911.jpg

A nice shot from baseball reference.com of the grandstands looking down the third base line [[what would later be the first base line)

http://www.baseball-reference.com/bp...ennettPark.jpg

A view from the U of M Burton site of the back of the old Trumbull police station with the Bennett Park grandstand in the background.

http://quod.lib.umich.edu/cgi/i/imag...y=2;view=image

A little college football was also played there

http://www.ticketmuseum.com/Football...1110_small.jpg

Quote:

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Originally Posted by CLAUDE G

Here are a few of the hundreds of origional glass negatives I have...

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I love how, in CLAUDE G' negative pics, the fourth pic down shows the
American Flag....with 48 stars !!!!
I don't think I've ever noticed, for some reason, other pictures and our flag
at the time. Alaska/Hawaii not made into states until 1959.....the year
I was born.
I just think that historical memories like this, captured on film/photographs,
has got to be the coolest thing.
It makes the whole,'Tear Down Tiger Stadium' thing, that much more tragic.
Couldn't they have TRIED to preserve it somehow.
What say we build the new Red Wings Arena on that site.
There's plenty of property surrounding that site that could be bought, and
developed. And an added benefit would be to re-integrate that area [[CorkTown)
with DownTown. Redevelop MCS into a 'Ruins' type park, with back portion demolished, and front section [[the cool part) preserved and re-developed
into a ruin/greenspace, with walkways, and lighted ruins, and an Amphitheatre.
Build a new, real, 'Big City' train station...and bring fans to the games by rail.
This plan would revitalize the Southwest side as well, and merge the whole area.
...Just saying.
Anyway, CLAUDE G. Those images ROCKED !!!!!!!!!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JohnnyFreddy

I love how, in CLAUDE G' negative pics, the fourth pic down shows the
American Flag....with 48 stars !!!!
I don't think I've ever noticed, for some reason, other pictures and our flag
at the time. Alaska/Hawaii not made into states until 1959.....the year
I was born.
I just think that historical memories like this, captured on film/photographs,
has got to be the coolest thing.
It makes the whole,'Tear Down Tiger Stadium' thing, that much more tragic.
Couldn't they have TRIED to preserve it somehow.
What say we build the new Red Wings Arena on that site.
There's plenty of property surrounding that site that could be bought, and
developed. And an added benefit would be to re-integrate that area [[CorkTown)
with DownTown. Redevelop MCS into a 'Ruins' type park, with back portion demolished, and front section [[the cool part) preserved and re-developed
into a ruin/greenspace, with walkways, and lighted ruins, and an Amphitheatre.
Build a new, real, 'Big City' train station...and bring fans to the games by rail.
This plan would revitalize the Southwest side as well, and merge the whole area.
...Just saying.
Anyway, CLAUDE G. Those images ROCKED !!!!!!!!!

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Over a decade ago, there was a renovation plan for Tiger Stadium drawn up by two architects called the "Cochrane Plan" that was never taken seriously by Mike Ilitch and the Tigers. It basically did what the Red Sox did with Fenway Park in the early 2000s in where they updated the structure to 21st century standards while keeping the character of the old ballpark intact.

Ilitch, like many other owners at the time was losing money due to falling attendance, and he saw the amazing business the Orioles were doing at Camden Yards, and the amazing returns the Indians were getting at Jacobs Field and he wanted in. Many teams in both leagues were building "retro style" ballparks in blighted sections of their downtowns and seeing huge monetary gains in attendance despite many having mediocre teams. People were coming to the ballpark not only to see the game but to shop, eat and basically treat it like a mall. Ilitch being the consumate businessman wanted in on the action, and the non sentimental side of me happens to completely understand that mindset.

I will argue that in time we will view that decision as a total mistake on Ilitch and the Tigers' part due to the fact that we weren't moving out of a nearly condemned stadium like Baltimore was, or a windy, cavernous stadium with sinking turf like Municipal Stadium in Cleveland. The teams that were building these retro style ballparks were moving out of run down older parks or cookie cutter multi purpose astroturf stadiums which had become very unpopular. Pittsburgh, for instance, HAD to build a new stadium as Three Rivers was literally falling apart and due to its astroturf players were refusing to play there. We were different because Ilitch already had a stadium with more character [[and natural grass) than any architect could ever dream of and he threw it away like a piece of garbage because of an early 21st century fad.

Baseball, more than any sport on earth is rooted deep in its own history. A huge part of any type of history is the place where it occurred. I remember watching a game at Tiger Stadium with my grandfather in 1998. He pointed over to the flagpole and told me he remembers being a teenager seeing Joe Dimaggio catching a fly ball over his shoulder right next to it, running in his non-chalant, effortless way and robbing a Tiger of a triple. He remembers seeing Ted Williams in the on deck circle, taking practice cuts while staring down the pitcher. He remembers seeing Al Kaline throwing runners out at third base from deep in the right field corner on the fly. He remembers seeing Mickey Mantle hit balls on the roof during batting practice. Baseball stadiums are much more than brick and mortar, far greater than grass and dirt, but unfortunately, professional baseball is a business so owners only see the bottom line - and rightly so. I just wish that Mike Ilitch and the Tigers could have waited just a few more years to see how well the Red Sox were doing at Fenway before making the decision to tear down the old ballpark.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by blackmath

Over a decade ago, there was a renovation plan for Tiger Stadium drawn up by two architects called the "Cochrane Plan" that was never taken seriously by Mike Ilitch and the Tigers. It basically did what the Red Sox did with Fenway Park in the early 2000s in where they updated the structure to 21st century standards while keeping the character of the old ballpark intact.

Ilitch, like many other owners at the time was losing money due to falling attendance, and he saw the amazing business the Orioles were doing at Camden Yards, and the amazing returns the Indians were getting at Jacobs Field and he wanted in. Many teams in both leagues were building "retro style" ballparks in blighted sections of their downtowns and seeing huge monetary gains in attendance despite many having mediocre teams. People were coming to the ballpark not only to see the game but to shop, eat and basically treat it like a mall. Ilitch being the consumate businessman wanted in on the action, and the non sentimental side of me happens to completely understand that mindset.

I will argue that in time we will view that decision as a total mistake on Ilitch and the Tigers' part due to the fact that we weren't moving out of a nearly condemned stadium like Baltimore was, or a windy, cavernous stadium with sinking turf like Municipal Stadium in Cleveland. The teams that were building these retro style ballparks were moving out of run down older parks or cookie cutter multi purpose astroturf stadiums which had become very unpopular. Pittsburgh, for instance, HAD to build a new stadium as Three Rivers was literally falling apart and due to its astroturf players were refusing to play there. We were different because Ilitch already had a stadium with more character [[and natural grass) than any architect could ever dream of and he threw it away like a piece of garbage because of an early 21st century fad.

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I lived in Baltimore from 1986-1994, attended the last ever game at Memorial Stadium [[old O's park) and the 2nd ever game at Camden Yards. There was absolutely not one thing wrong with Memorial Stadium other than lacking the lucrative suites sports owners covet. It was in the middle of a residential area, not near any highways, so it was difficult for people to drive to. But it was not structurally unsound, not run down at all, and was in much, much better shape than Tiger Stadium was. The O's owner basically held the city hostage, and having lost the Colts in 1982, the city would have done nearly anything to keep the Orioles.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by drjeff

I lived in Baltimore from 1986-1994, attended the last ever game at Memorial Stadium [[old O's park) and the 2nd ever game at Camden Yards. There was absolutely not one thing wrong with Memorial Stadium other than lacking the lucrative suites sports owners covet. It was in the middle of a residential area, not near any highways, so it was difficult for people to drive to. But it was not structurally unsound, not run down at all, and was in much, much better shape than Tiger Stadium was. The O's owner basically held the city hostage, and having lost the Colts in 1982, the city would have done nearly anything to keep the Orioles.

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I do apologize for my crass evaluation of Memorial Stadium. I was off on a tangent and I got carried away. I brought up Baltimore because it was the success of Camden Yards [[which I personally love as a stadium) that was the catalyst to Comerica Park being built. Owners all around the league saw the success Angelos was having with his new ballpark and they wanted to wet their beak a little.

Also, at least you got an amazing ballpark out of the deal. I wish I could be held hostage for such a beautiful place like that. Some cities have all the luck ;)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by blackmath

I do apologize for my crass evaluation of Memorial Stadium. I was off on a tangent and I got carried away. I brought up Baltimore because it was the success of Camden Yards [[which I personally love as a stadium) that was the catalyst to Comerica Park being built. Owners all around the league saw the success Angelos was having with his new ballpark and they wanted to wet their beak a little.

Also, at least you got an amazing ballpark out of the deal. I wish I could be held hostage for such a beautiful place like that. Some cities have all the luck ;)

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Indeed, one of the tragedies of Comerica Park is how much it is unlike Tiger Stadium. You'd think that having an actual great old ballpark as a living example only a few blocks away would mean that the architects would've had some inspiration to work from to at least design a decent 'retro' ballpark. So why did we end up with such a faceless retro-park? One which contains almost no reference to the beloved piece of baseball history that preceded it, and replicates none of its best features?

It doesn't even have any of the charms of the much better retro-parks like Camden Yards or Pac Bell [[ummm..AT&T) in San Franisco. Instead it comes off as something like a cheap and unimaginative imitation of those places - essentially an imitation of an imitation. I think the bland and numbingly similar cut-rate retro-parks that followed the trend begun by Camden Yards - Comerica, Citifield in NYC, Nationals Park in DC, and others, are doomed to be viewed in the future as the 'cookie-cutter' parks of a later era. Only Comerica will be seen as worse, because, like it says above, unlike the others it replaced something much much better.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by EastsideAl

Indeed, one of the tragedies of Comerica Park is how much it is unlike Tiger Stadium. You'd think that having an actual great old ballpark as a living example only a few blocks away would mean that the architects would've had some inspiration to work from to at least design a decent 'retro' ballpark. So why did we end up with such a faceless retro-park? One which contains almost no reference to the beloved piece of baseball history that preceded it, and replicates none of its best features?

It doesn't even have any of the charms of the much better retro-parks like Camden Yards or Pac Bell [[ummm..AT&T) in San Franisco. Instead it comes off as something like a cheap and unimaginative imitation of those places - essentially an imitation of an imitation. I think the bland and numbingly similar cut-rate retro-parks that followed the trend begun by Camden Yards - Comerica, Citifield in NYC, Nationals Park in DC, and others, are doomed to be viewed in the future as the 'cookie-cutter' parks of a later era. Only Comerica will be seen as worse, because, like it says above, unlike the others it replaced something much much better.

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Totally agree, and let's add new Yankee Stadium and Great American Ballpark in Cincinnati to the mediocre white bread list. Why they tore Yankee Stadium down I have no idea, none whatsoever.