Roosters come home to roost in Rochester Hills [City Signs Oil Exploration Lease]

Awww, so the people in the Motor City suburb of Rochester Hills are upset that someone wants to prospect for oil in their backyards. Never mind that they moved to a city where driving is treated as a prerequisite for intelligent life.

http://www.theoaklandpress.com/gener...as-oil-leasing

No, oil drilling was a problem those brown people in the Middle East and those fishes in the Gulf were supposed to have to deal with. Not Americans! Don't you know that the kind people of Rochester Hills care about the - scratch that, their - environment! You can't drill in suburban people's backyards! We're supposed to be able to sprawl out as far as we want, and everything gets out of our way.

That's it. It's time to throw a fit, people. Let's drive to the Rochester Hills City Hall and give 'em a piece of our mind!

Who's with me?

Just try to drive slow, like maybe 5 miles above the speed limit, and not use too much gas. Because then they might really have to drill in Rochester Hills, and that would defeat the whole purpose of what we're doing.

See you there!

Curious.. there's legitimate evidence of oil in Southeast Michigan?
how much pollution is generated by fracking operations?

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Originally Posted by Hypestyles

Curious.. there's legitimate evidence of oil in Southeast Michigan?
how much pollution is generated by fracking operations?

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The biggest pollution issue with the act of fracking is water. Fracking required millions of gallons. The water gets mixed with some awful stuff like oil, gas, and other nasty stuff. It then must be treated before it can be safely returned to the ecosystem.

Unusual. The Rochester area was at the foot of the last glacier. The glacier left huge mounds of gravel there. Before Avon Township/Rochester Hills were subdivided and built on, they quarried tens of thousands of truckloads of gravel out of the area. It all went down to fill in the swamps between 8 and 14 mile in Oakland and Macomb to allow all of the post war construction there. I wonder how much being at the toe of the glacier did for creating oil pockets?

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Originally Posted by DetroitPlanner

The biggest pollution issue with the act of fracking is water. Fracking required millions of gallons. The water gets mixed with some awful stuff like oil, gas, and other nasty stuff. It then must be treated before it can be safely returned to the ecosystem.

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No problem, we have the Great Lakes. Plenty of free water.

They are probably exploring the Antrim Shale.




http://web2.geo.msu.edu/geogmich/Oil&gas.html

Scroll down to the map with the black [[dry) red [[gas) and green [[oil) dots.

America needs energy independence!! Unless they are drilling in my backyard, in which case, screw that!

I don't know if that was ironic or not. We have lots of water, but that doesn't solve the problem of disposing of contaminated water.

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Originally Posted by Hermod

Unusual. The Rochester area was at the foot of the last glacier. The glacier left huge mounds of gravel there. Before Avon Township/Rochester Hills were subdivided and built on, they quarried tens of thousands of truckloads of gravel out of the area. It all went down to fill in the swamps between 8 and 14 mile in Oakland and Macomb to allow all of the post war construction there. I wonder how much being at the toe of the glacier did for creating oil pockets?

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Probably nothing. Antrim shale is pretty much all methane with some natural gas liquids.

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Originally Posted by mwilbert

I don't know if that was ironic or not. We have lots of water, but that doesn't solve the problem of disposing of contaminated water.

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No, I wasn't being ironic, I was being sarcastic. I think fracking is environmentally destructive and stupid, only second to texting while driving.

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Originally Posted by Honky Tonk

No, I wasn't being ironic, I was being sarcastic. I think fracking is environmentally destructive and stupid, only second to texting while driving.

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For as amazing of a technology as it is, I agree that it is a short-sighted solution to a long term problem.

- Posted by Verizon on Lodge Freeway :rolleyes:

http://rs1209.pbsrc.com/albums/cc394...mbsup.jpg~c200



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Hey, this is great. Free market policies driving economic activity! I don't see why the residents of Rochester Hills are concerned at all.

While we're at it, why not use the dead zone/Superfund site this drilling operation leaves behind for a segment of a 10-lane freeway?

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Originally Posted by Hypestyles

Curious.. there's legitimate evidence of oil in Southeast Michigan?
how much pollution is generated by fracking operations?

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There are a number of natural gas and oil wells out here in the Milford area. If you look at an aerial map of Kensington Metro Park you can see several of them towards the North end of the park and there's another on the far North end of Camp Dearborn..

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Originally Posted by nain rouge

Awww, so the people in the Motor City suburb of Rochester Hills are upset that someone wants to prospect for oil in their backyards. Never mind that they moved to a city where driving is treated as a prerequisite for intelligent life.

http://www.theoaklandpress.com/gener...as-oil-leasing

No, oil drilling was a problem those brown people in the Middle East and those fishes in the Gulf were supposed to have to deal with. Not Americans! Don't you know that the kind people of Rochester Hills care about the - scratch that, their - environment! You can't drill in suburban people's backyards! We're supposed to be able to sprawl out as far as we want, and everything gets out of our way.

That's it. It's time to throw a fit, people. Let's drive to the Rochester Hills City Hall and give 'em a piece of our mind!

Who's with me?

Just try to drive slow, like maybe 5 miles above the speed limit, and not use too much gas. Because then they might really have to drill in Rochester Hills, and that would defeat the whole purpose of what we're doing.

See you there!

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Your attempt to link this issue to "sprawl" or make it a city/suburb argument is just silly. How would you feel about oil or natural gas drilling or the possibly of working oil wells on Belle Isle? Or in another Detroit city park perhaps just upwind from your home or business?

I think everyone realizes that we all require oil and gas to live, work and travel [[Detroit residents included). The issue above seems to be that Rochester Hills has a law requiring voter approval before undertaking agreements where park land may be used for other purposes. Seems fairly straight forward to me if this group is just asking that the existing laws be followed before this goes any further.

ask these people if they want windmills in their back yards, if not, they get the oil derricks and the fracking nonsense.

I'm a Rochester Hills resident.

Many folks are opposed to drilling, but those concerns aren't really acknowledged by the City Council and the Mayor.

I've written the City Council and Mayor in opposition to the drilling. The Mayor and one council member responded. The council member started parroting national-level right-wing talking points in favor of oil drilling.

The city leased out two parks and a cemetery. The cemetery is technically in Rochester, but the parks are in Rochester Hills.

The lease gets the city 1/6 of profits, instead of the normal 1/8th if you're forced into a compulsory lease. The lease also prohibits "high-volume fracking", but not all fracking as the mayor and council continue to assert.

The lease does not specify where the well heads or drilling activities will take place, the city has no idea where that will be. They only know that the first exploratory well is in Auburn Hills.

Here's where it gets interesting. Section 11.8 of the city charter PROHIBITS leasing of public parkland without a vote of the public.

An attorney hired by the city says that section 11.8 does NOT apply to the leasing of sub-surface rights. However, many people including myself don't believe this is true. This is why the city is getting sued right now.

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"City-owned parks and open spaces shall be used only for park and open space purposes and shall not be sold, leased, transferred, exchanged or converted to another use unless approved by voters."

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The mayor claims that the above language couldn't possible apply to mineral rights of a public space.


People like myself who oppose oil and gas recovery in 32-square mile city with 70,000 residents give two arguments:

1) The lease violates Section 11.8 of the city charter and requires voter approval
2) We don't want recovery activities happening in our city


Here's the city attorney opinion of why the charter can be circumvented: http://rochesterhills.org/DocumentCenter/View/3345

Here's the actual lease with Jordan Oil: http://rochesterhills.org/DocumentCenter/View/3349

More information can be found here: http://www.rochesterhills.org/index.aspx?NID=715

Don't Drill The Hills has their side here: http://oaklandice.org/

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Originally Posted by compn

ask these people if they want windmills in their back yards, if not, they get the oil derricks and the fracking nonsense.

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I'm a Rochester Hills resident and you can ask me. I can't speak for all residents, but I do speak for myself.

I would not oppose wind turbines or solar panels. I would not want a wind turbine literally in my backyard because it's not large enough to accommodate a commercial wind turbine, but there are many locations with 300 feet of my house that would be suitable.

I'm also for the expansion of nuclear energy. Nuclear is far safer than continuing to rely on hostile nations to help us continue global climate change.

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Originally Posted by Johnnnnnnnnnnnnnny5

Your attempt to link this issue to "sprawl" or make it a city/suburb argument is just silly. How would you feel about oil or natural gas drilling or the possibly of working oil wells on Belle Isle? Or in another Detroit city park perhaps just upwind from your home or business?

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I'd be unhappy, but I'd realize that it was a natural result of our lifestyles. I'm not anti-car, but I'm against the 1 car [[or more) per adult model suburbs encourage and even depend on in some cases. I believe in a maximum of 1 car per household and walkable neighborhoods.

It's just sad to me that issues like this rarely - if ever - cause residents of suburbs to pause for reflection on their resource wasting habits. No, they just rail against politicians. Like it or not, if you keep living the way you do, companies are going to continue to find ways to drill in America. Because even if your voice says no, your actions at the pump indicate otherwise.

If Rochester Hills residents found out a gas station in their city was having a $0.50 off per gallon sale, they'd pounce on the station like crack addicts that found out a crack house was having a sale on drugs.

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Originally Posted by nain rouge

I'd be unhappy, but I'd realize that it was a natural result of our lifestyles. I'm not anti-car, but I'm against the 1 car [[or more) per adult model suburbs encourage and even depend on in some cases. I believe in a maximum of 1 car per household and walkable neighborhoods.

It's just sad to me that issues like this rarely - if ever - cause residents of suburbs to pause for reflection on their resource wasting habits. No, they just rail against politicians. Like it or not, if you keep living the way you do, companies are going to continue to find ways to drill in America. Because even if your voice says no, your actions at the pump indicate otherwise.[/COLOR]

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Your points are somewhat valid, but you're making them overly simple.

I live in Rochester Hills, I work in Detroit, and my wife works in Ferndale. We have two children that are approaching elementary age.

#1 Priority - Safety
#2 Priority - Great schools
#3 Priority - Commute

Detroit is not an option for all the obvious reasons. The inner-ring suburbs don't have schools that meet our standards. That's how we ended up in the "sprawl".

Although Rochester Hills is far away from Downtown Detroit, it does employ a lot of folks. It is by no means a "bedroom community" like Clawson or Berkley. Many people who live in Rochester Hills have much shorter commutes than myself.

Shopping is within walking distance of my house, but any major trip would have to be done in a car, as it would be too far to carry a large amount of items.

We do care about the environment, but safety and education was far too important to stay in the south end of Warren, which is where we used to live.

I know we're "part of the problem", and the solution is to have safe urban cities with good schools and solid mass transit. Right now there simply is no option like that in Michigan.

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Originally Posted by nain rouge

If Rochester Hills residents found out a gas station in their city was having a $0.50 off per gallon sale, they'd pounce on the station like crack addicts that found out a crack house was having a sale on drugs.

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Is this what it feels like to be on the opposite side of sweeping generalizations? I'm not quite used to it yet! :cool:

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Originally Posted by 48307

I would not oppose wind turbines or solar panels.

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great. we need more wind turbines in michigan. lots of free wind and free hydro in the detroit river [[shh dont tell anyone we can use the detroit river to generate electricity).

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Originally Posted by 48307

We do care about the environment, but safety and education was far too important to stay in the south end of Warren, which is where we used to live.

I know we're "part of the problem", and the solution is to have safe urban cities with good schools and solid mass transit. Right now there simply is no option like that in Michigan.

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I spent my first 19 years in Warren and went to Warren Consolidated. I'm now 26. Warren schools - at least when I graduated in 2006 - were pretty good. You had all the resources you needed to succeed. If someone failed, it wasn't because of the school. It was because that person didn't care.

90% of Warren was nice when I was a kid. It was bland and suburban, but so is Rochester Hills. The only thing that has dragged "South Warren" down is close-minded people that have to live where the shopping centers are still considered new. Of course, if everyone keeps saying Warren sucks, then eventually that becomes a reality. But if you're really telling me "North Warren" is so much worse than Rochester Hills, your're just revealing your prejudices and addiction to standardized test scores.

Oh, and you don't care about the environment. You can say anything you want. But your actions speak WAY louder than your words. I know the lifestyle of the average Rochester Hills resident, and environmentally friendly isn't the term that comes to mind.

Oh, and before someone asks me why I don't live in Warren anymore, I'll tell you myself. I eventually moved to Detroit to get closer to the core, and now I don't live in Michigan. I NEVER would've willingly moved to a city like Rochester Hills.