D-DOT Green Flu strikes again!

Have you all seen all the people cramed up in the Rosa Parks Transit Center all day waiting for a bus? have you all seen crowds of people waiting on the Woodward Bus Stop for almost an hour until a bus come?The Detroit Department of Transportation bus drivers are on a partial strike without any notification. During this 'Green Flu' strike most D-DOT busses on the road will see more crowded passengers. There will be more waiting times from 45 mintutes to a hour. Detroiters and suburbanites are getting very frustrated and sick and tired waiting a long long time for a decent D-DOT bus to pick them up and take them to their destinations.

Any thoughts?

Union crybabies are overworked and "underpaid".

Thank you, Mr. Nugent. And now, for a responsible opinion...

I saw a huge crowd at the 8 Mile and Gratiot stop in front of the White Castle. And the stop at Bel- Air had a larger than normal amount of people. To be fair though, the rail road lights at Grosebeck were jammed and 3 buses couldn't pass. That doesn't explain the crowd at Gratiot...


I'm just waiting for the day people start protesting outside city hall about the bus service.

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Originally Posted by Detroitnerd

Thank you, Mr. Nugent. And now, for a responsible opinion...

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I appreciate the sacrifices made by this union. They obviously recognize that everybody is hurting and that they'll have to cut back their annual increases to only 7% instead of 8%.

They may protest... except they won't be able to get there on time.

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Originally Posted by cramerro

They may protest... except they won't be able to get there on time.

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Or at all. Soon there will be a day where the City will just give up and close DOT for good. Then SMART can take over and maybe then there will be some sort of consistent bus service.

DDOT should put up the operation of Detroit bus routes for bid. The union would be free to bid, too. There would be targets for cost and efficiency of operation. Don't meet targets, you're fired. Right now, there is esssentially no consequence for bad operation of the system at the top level down to "soft striking" employees.

PS I would require every employee- except for staggered, pre-planned vacation- to provide a doctor's note for every absence, or face termination. I lived in NYC during the 2005 transit strike when 8000 people told 8000000 they couldn't have mass transit for 3 awful days. Walking from Brooklyn to Manhattan for work in the winter was not fun. Ironically, the average MTA employee makes far more than the average wages earned in New York. And the hardest hit were hourly paid, low wage workers.

All public employees, transit and otherwise, need to be made aware that it's not their government. DDOT belongs to 700,000 Detroiters, who vote and pay taxes. It does not belong to a few malcontents who show up when they want to. In the end, poor service will lead to fewer people taking buses [[most people, except the extreme poor, will make other arrangements). I get so angry with public employees who act like government service is the Lord's work. It's not. It's driving a bus, and you're replaceable.

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Originally Posted by MikeyinBrooklyn

DDOT should put up the operation of Detroit bus routes for bid. The union would be free to bid, too. There would be targets for cost and efficiency of operation. Don't meet targets, you're fired. Right now, there is esssentially no consequence for bad operation of the system at the top level down to "soft striking" employees.

PS I would require every employee- except for staggered, pre-planned vacation- to provide a doctor's note for every absence, or face termination. I lived in NYC during the 2005 transit strike when 8000 people told 8000000 they couldn't have mass transit for 3 awful days. Walking from Brooklyn to Manhattan for work in the winter was not fun. Ironically, the average MTA employee makes far more than the average wages earned in New York. And the hardest hit were hourly paid, low wage workers.

All public employees, transit and otherwise, need to be made aware that it's not their government. DDOT belongs to 700,000 Detroiters, who vote and pay taxes. It does not belong to a few malcontents who show up when they want to. In the end, poor service will lead to fewer people taking buses [[most people, except the extreme poor, will make other arrangements). I get so angry with public employees who act like government service is the Lord's work. It's not. It's driving a bus, and you're replaceable.

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B R A V O !

I agree completely.

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Originally Posted by animatedmartian

To be fair though, the rail road lights at Grosebeck were jammed and 3 buses couldn't pass. That doesn't explain the crowd at Gratiot...

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The stop by the White Castle is a WB 8 Mile stop. If the EB buses couldn't get through to Gratiot because of a malfunctioning railroad crossing, then they couldn't turn around and pick up the WB passengers either. Or are you saying that the lights were only malfunctioning on the westbound side?

FWIW, I caught a bus from that stop around 7 this morning, and didn't notice either an unusually large number of people waiting there or any problem with the railroad crossing in either direction. Maybe it was an intermittent problem with the crossing.

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Originally Posted by Detroitnerd

Thank you, Mr. Nugent. And now, for a responsible opinion...

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Yet people could care less about the drivers pay benefits if they aren't there to pick passengers up to get to their own jobs. It just makes people more pissed off

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Originally Posted by antongast

The stop by the White Castle is a WB 8 Mile stop. If the EB buses couldn't get through to Gratiot because of a malfunctioning railroad crossing, then they couldn't turn around and pick up the WB passengers either. Or are you saying that the lights were only malfunctioning on the westbound side?

FWIW, I caught a bus from that stop around 7 this morning, and didn't notice either an unusually large number of people waiting there or any problem with the railroad crossing in either direction. Maybe it was an intermittent problem with the crossing.

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Ah, I didn't think of that even though it should have been obvious. I always confuse the Gratiot bus as the 8 Mile bus since the Gratiot route goes to Eastland.

Both eastbound and westbound gates were blocked so yea, they wouldn't be able to turn around.

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Originally Posted by MikeyinBrooklyn

DDOT should put up the operation of Detroit bus routes for bid. The union would be free to bid, too. There would be targets for cost and efficiency of operation. Don't meet targets, you're fired. Right now, there is esssentially no consequence for bad operation of the system at the top level down to "soft striking" employees.

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I'm not sure I understand the relationship between DDOT outsourcing its operations and building more accountability into the system. If DDOT management had direct control over their hiring practices and contract negotiations, the accountability goals could be accomplished without bringing in a third party. If you implemented the outsourcing but not the direct accountability, then I don't see how that would be an improvement over the status quo.

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Originally Posted by MikeyinBrooklyn

I get so angry with public employees who act like government service is the Lord's work. It's not. It's driving a bus, and you're replaceable.

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If most bus drivers thought they were doing the Lord's work, I would think service would actually be somewhat better than it is now. If it's just a job where you're paid to drive a bus, as opposed to a job where you're paid to flip burgers, then the overall quality of the service isn't your concern. If, on the other hand, you're being called to serve God by helping His children get around town and live productive lives, well, that's the mother of all accountability mechanisms. The only thing left for DDOT to figure out would be how they could exclude smart-ass atheists from the hiring process without getting sued.

I ride the bus, SMART and DDOT, pretty regularly, and I observe the buses around U of D. Now, U of D is on five DDOT routes: Dexter, Linwood, Livernois, McNichols and Puritan. I completely believe the maintenance slowdown is happening, but weirdly, it does not seem to be affecting the routes near the University at all. I see the buses just about when I expect to, and they don't appear to be more crowded than usual. Now, most of the U of D bus routes are serviced [[I think) by the Coolidge terminal. Is the work slowdown localized to Gilbert, or is U of D protected somehow from the wrath of DDOT maintenance workers, or what is going on?

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Originally Posted by professorscott

I ride the bus, SMART and DDOT, pretty regularly, and I observe the buses around U of D. Now, U of D is on five DDOT routes: Dexter, Linwood, Livernois, McNichols and Puritan. I completely believe the maintenance slowdown is happening, but weirdly, it does not seem to be affecting the routes near the University at all. I see the buses just about when I expect to, and they don't appear to be more crowded than usual. Now, most of the U of D bus routes are serviced [[I think) by the Coolidge terminal. Is the work slowdown localized to Gilbert, or is U of D protected somehow from the wrath of DDOT maintenance workers, or what is going on?

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It seems to be the major artery roads like Gratiot is where it's most noticeable.

I thought this might have been already posted in the thread but he's a related news story.

http://www.freep.com/article/2011092...fe-hard-riders

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Originally Posted by MikeyinBrooklyn

DDOT should put up the operation of Detroit bus routes for bid. The union would be free to bid, too. There would be targets for cost and efficiency of operation. Don't meet targets, you're fired. Right now, there is esssentially no consequence for bad operation of the system at the top level down to "soft striking" employees.

PS I would require every employee- except for staggered, pre-planned vacation- to provide a doctor's note for every absence, or face termination. I lived in NYC during the 2005 transit strike when 8000 people told 8000000 they couldn't have mass transit for 3 awful days. Walking from Brooklyn to Manhattan for work in the winter was not fun. Ironically, the average MTA employee makes far more than the average wages earned in New York. And the hardest hit were hourly paid, low wage workers.

All public employees, transit and otherwise, need to be made aware that it's not their government. DDOT belongs to 700,000 Detroiters, who vote and pay taxes. It does not belong to a few malcontents who show up when they want to. In the end, poor service will lead to fewer people taking buses [[most people, except the extreme poor, will make other arrangements). I get so angry with public employees who act like government service is the Lord's work. It's not. It's driving a bus, and you're replaceable.

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This meesage should also go to the union busting Mayor and members of the city council. It was Bing's plan to downsize DDOTT and increase the wait time. I know he is probably getting a pat on his head by the corprations and entities who are controlling him.

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Originally Posted by antongast

I'm not sure I understand the relationship between DDOT outsourcing its operations and building more accountability into the system. If DDOT management had direct control over their hiring practices and contract negotiations, the accountability goals could be accomplished without bringing in a third party. If you implemented the outsourcing but not the direct accountability, then I don't see how that would be an improvement over the status quo.

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I think the argument makes more sense if you say the City of Detroit should put up the operation of DDOT for bid [[that may be what MIB was getting at). Privatization. It adds a few layers of 'motivation' for those running the system... namely, if they do it more efficiently, they make more money, and, if they don't meet the performance measures laid out in thier contract, they get fired. Somehow as I type that, I see a scenario where the City would make a bad choice in the hiring process, hire a terrible firm for rediculous reasons, and then let them keep going for months/years even though they don't meet the performance measures. I think that was a nightmare I had a few weeks ago...

Personally I think it's more realistic that soon, the City will have to let the whole DDOT go because they simply can't afford it. They made deep, deep funding cuts this last time around and I think even just a little more would mean they literally wouldn't be able to run a service. At a certain point you cross the funding threshold where the service would go down so much and maintenance would be so bad that ridership would plummet, further reducing revenue and meaning the collapse of the whole department. Then, and I think only then, will the City yeild to a state or regional transit operator [[and I'm sure that even through that process they'll still demand everything but the kitchen sink to keep control wherever they can).

Yeah I was one of those 'unfortunate' ones waiting at the Transit Center on a Saturday. Impossible to get to my destination on schedule due to slow buses... so I've had to resort to getting a ride until I am back driving again. Ridiculous! For too many lines this system is totally unreliable and useless if you must get somewhere on time!!

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Originally Posted by Danny

Have you all seen all the people cramed up in the Rosa Parks Transit Center all day waiting for a bus? have you all seen crowds of people waiting on the Woodward Bus Stop for almost an hour until a bus come?

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Originally Posted by Vox

Or at all. Soon there will be a day where the City will just give up and close DOT for good. Then SMART can take over and maybe then there will be some sort of consistent bus service.

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Maybe, maybe not. SMART does a good job of cherry picking routes [[working around DDOT's more difficult routes during morning and afternoon rush hours) in Detroit. Let them start dealing with midday traffic and the school rush hour. Then we'll see what they're made of. SMART has never done any heavy lifting.

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Originally Posted by cramerro

I think the argument makes more sense if you say the City of Detroit should put up the operation of DDOT for bid [[that may be what MIB was getting at). Privatization. It adds a few layers of 'motivation' for those running the system... namely, if they do it more efficiently, they make more money, and, if they don't meet the performance measures laid out in thier contract, they get fired. Somehow as I type that, I see a scenario where the City would make a bad choice in the hiring process, hire a terrible firm for rediculous reasons, and then let them keep going for months/years even though they don't meet the performance measures. I think that was a nightmare I had a few weeks ago...

Personally I think it's more realistic that soon, the City will have to let the whole DDOT go because they simply can't afford it. They made deep, deep funding cuts this last time around and I think even just a little more would mean they literally wouldn't be able to run a service. At a certain point you cross the funding threshold where the service would go down so much and maintenance would be so bad that ridership would plummet, further reducing revenue and meaning the collapse of the whole department. Then, and I think only then, will the City yeild to a state or regional transit operator [[and I'm sure that even through that process they'll still demand everything but the kitchen sink to keep control wherever they can).

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Privatization isn't going to happen. DDOT relies too much on subsidies that couldn't be made available to a private company. Besides, good luck finding someone with a few hundred working coaches, a fleet of mechanics, drivers, bus yards and about 50-100 million in start-up money just lying around.

The most that could happen, and I can see Bing trying to pull this, is privatizing the management of DDOT. This way he would not only be able to hook up one or two of his corporate buddies. But by allowing them to run the bid process for DDOT, other friends of his would benefit from a bunch of no bid contracts. Meanwhile, the only ones left on the financial hook would be the taxpayers.

crammero, read any public policy textbook from the last 100 years. Public transit is not a profitable service and should never be privatized, last time that happened we lost the streetcars.

That being said, I waited for an hour on Woodward yesterday for the bus. When it came, it was completely overcrowded and there were three Woodward 53's lined up one after another. I don't get DDOT. Is it that hard to fucking time your departures?