Should Dave Bing impose a moratorium on fast-food restaurants in the city?

Darren A. Nichols / The Detroit News

Detroit —A nonprofit medical group is calling for Mayor Dave Bing to impose a moratorium on new fast food restaurants.

Citing a study that shows Detroit has the more fast-food restaurants than four other cities with similar population sizes, the Physicians Committee for Responsible Medicine is calling for the moratorium.

"I'm writing you to declare a public health emergency," the letter from Susan Levin, the group's director of nutrition reads. "…It's time to tackle Detroit's heart disease problem head on. A moratorium on new fast food restaurants could be a critically important step toward fighting this epidemic."

The group says the moratorium is needed because "Detroit's high-fat and meat-heavy diets" have helped cause heart problems. More than 3,400 Detroiters die of heart disease each year, and the city has the fourth-highest rate of heart disease deaths of all U.S. cities, according to the World Health Organization.

In 2008, Los Angeles imposed moratorium on new fast food restaurants with neighborhoods with high obesity rates and numerous stores. In New York City, officials required fast food chains to post calorie counts on menus and displays.

In 2005, ex-Mayor Kwame Kilpatrick sought a "fat tax" on fast food. It went nowhere.

"We decided to take on fast food in general because the quality of most menu items is rather poor. The whole country is suffering from these kinds of statistics," said Levin, whose group has produced a commercial about the issue.

The anti-McDonald's commercial is set in a morgue, the group said. It has yet to run traction in Detroit, but has run in Chicago and Washington, D.C.
Detroit has 73 fast food restaurants, including 32 McDonald's within the city's 139 square miles, the group said.

"We decided to make a commercial that targets fast food and makes the point that these types of food are related to the diseases that kills us the most. Detroit is probably in a worse situation than a lot of other cities," the group said.
City officials did not immediately respond.


http://detnews.com/article/20101214/...#ixzz18ADQAIF5

Not that I care that much for fast food, but I really wish these groups would leave it along.

The reason why there is as many fast food resturants in the city as it is, is because of the lack of good sit down resturants.

Really where can you really go and sit down and eat? If its not a fast food resturant, its some little bullshit Coney Island. Not saying all Coney Islands are bad, but alot of those places you really question how clean the place really is and if you do decide to sit down and eat, some of these places are just plain scary to be in.

As far as Mc Donalds, I don't care how bad the neighborhood is, there is usually enough people eating there that I feel safe enough to sit down.

Well stated... this is more sawing-the-floor-out-from-beneath-you 'look we're doing something' politics. I'm not a big fast food eater either, but I recognize their benefit to the city, where as you mention very few sit-downs remain unless you are talking up-scale stuff downtown or a couple of rare jewels tuck in here and there.

Shucks, some of the 'bullet-proof' window coney island dives are closing!! Or have limited hours like Legends [[a decent place) on Jefferson Ave. near Connor. They close by 5:00 PM before the high robbery time-frame... though they have another more hardy location on the east side that hangs tough well into the night!

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Originally Posted by CLAUDE G

Not that I care that much for fast food, but I really wish these groups would leave it along.

The reason why there is as many fast food resturants in the city as it is, is because of the lack of good sit down resturants.

Really where can you really go and sit down and eat? If its not a fast food resturant, its some little bullshit Coney Island. Not saying all Coney Islands are bad, but alot of those places you really question how clean the place really is and if you do decide to sit down and eat, some of these places are just plain scary to be in.

As far as Mc Donalds, I don't care how bad the neighborhood is, there is usually enough people eating there that I feel safe enough to sit down.

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Three fast food restaurants in Detroit is the equivalent to one fast food restaurants anywhere else because most of them are so damn slow. What's the problem if they serve five people every hour?

I went into a fast food restaurant in Detroit the other day for lunch and ended up having dinner.
Ba dump bump.:)

I also don't think this can be done within the bounds of the law, if we remain under the Constitution. It will be dashed to the rocks as hindering the free speech rights of corporations-as-persons. This, if made into law, will only COST the city monies we dearly do not have, wasted on lawyers yakking.


Educating the masses and providing them with true options seems the only way. Incentives to grow your OWN food and eat it closest to its raw state would be ideal, but it may be too great a cultural shock to the average person who actually thinks fast restaurants serve real food!



I used to BE a fast-food ONLY eater. I'll never forget one day on the salesfloor of a hifi store up in Birmingham...when one of my customers saw me slamming another quarter-pounder with cheese in three bites...and they said, "How can you eat that stuff?!" My flippant remark was probably, "what? you just saw me...in three bites!"


But it made a dent. I saw my health deteriorating in my late twenties into early thirties. Married at 32, all of a sudden I went from being 30 pounds overweight to 65 pounds heavy. Sick as a dog with asthma, allergic to an alarmingly increasing number of things, lethargic...and then I got my wake-up call.


Spent fifteen years diligently learning and applying what little I understood. NOW? I'm back to my high-school weight at 47, and have completed twenty marathons. They were all jog/walked...I don't consider myself a runner, THOSE folks watch the clock. I find my rhythm and pace myself, and enjoy every step...every breath.


So...can we find motivated, high-visibility individuals in each neighborhood...and prove to and through THEM there is a better way...so they can share it with those who trust and know them? The overall meme throughout the city is distrust of authority, especially governmental. So nearly anything the government tries, against the hearty momentum of the fast food industry, will be held in high suspicion.

Same approach may help eliminate the 'no snitching' rule, too! Who knows?!


Cheers

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Originally Posted by Gannon

I also don't think this can be done within the bounds of the law, if we remain under the Constitution. It will be dashed to the rocks as hindering the free speech rights of corporations-as-persons. This, if made into law, will only COST the city monies we dearly do not have, wasted on lawyers yakking.

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Why would it be any different than the city's ban on new gas stations?

This is your heart.
This is your heart on a Triple Baconator Combo Meal with fries and a coke.
Any questions?

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Originally Posted by rjk

Three fast food restaurants in Detroit is the equivalent to one fast food restaurants anywhere else because most of them are so damn slow. What's the problem if they serve five people every hour?

I went into a fast food restaurant in Detroit the other day for lunch and ended up having dinner.

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It is hard to have fast food with half-fast employees! [[pun intended)

For as much talk as there is about Detroit being a food dessert, this does not make any sense.

These folks would be light years better off going into public schools and educating the children about making wise choices, not only in selecting foods but with everything. A regular hamburger from McDonalds is not the issue, its the choice of eating the Big Mac with large fries and barrell sized coke everyday that will.

Fast food is cheap, most people in the area dont have alot of money to spend on food...thats one of the reasons there are so many fast food places...why not put a moratorium on cars, as they are the #1 cause of traffic deaths, and driving cars to pick up fast food is encouraged by the evil fast food companies. Lets also put a moritorium on Liquor stores, as deaths related to booze far exceed death by chicken nuggets.

It's just like the San Francisco Common Council posed a ban of McDonald's Happy Meals until they chain fixed its menu to for nutritional standards. This might work in Detroit's ghettohoods because the poor and low-income families need to eat healthy foods and fight obesity.

WORD FROM THE STREET

The "Jabba the Hutt" trend is going on all over the Detroit, suburbs and America. This due to more unhealthy foods and personal depression to comfort foods.

Neda, I miss you so.

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Originally Posted by DetroitPlanner

For as much talk as there is about Detroit being a food dessert, this does not make any sense.

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You're right, calling Detroit a dessert does not make any sense. It's a brunch, at best.

Yes, this is entirely different than the moratorium on gas stations. A closed gas station creates a brownfield. Counter-intuitively, there are stations closing and opening all over Detroit all the time.

Both sides are wrong. The city would be insane to impose a moratorium on one of the only commercial enterprises that is willing and able to survive in the city. The tax base is obvious reason, but also these are jobs - not great jobs, but for every one of them you take away you create a potential drug dealer, gang banger, prison inmate, or body at the morgue in a city where inner-city employment is virtually non-existent. It is also nice to have some functioning businesses in a city that is 1/3 vacant, and more eyes and ears and lights makes for a safer city.

However, obesity, heart disease, and diabetes are killing the African-American community. Obesity is a huge problem in the US as a whole - even among the people with wealth, transportation, an education, and a variety of dining and shopping options. How do you expect someone with virtually no disposable income, little or no education, no reliable transportation, and their only retail options nearby are a liquor store and McDonald's to make the "right" choices????

Most fast food is not normal, nutrient-dense, fresh, healthy food. No, it is not a matter of getting a burger instead of a Big Mac. There is still virtually no nutritional value to that meal, even if the calories and fat are lower. Even the seemingly healthy options like salads are often loaded with calories from the dressing and crutons.

You could have a fast food restaurant on every corner and yes, it still would make sense to call Detroit a food desert, because unfortunately a McDonald's is not the same as a grocery store with fresh produce, dairy, meat, and a deli. Perhaps we should say a nutritious food desert, if we're now just counting anything you can ingest without instantly dying as "food."

Solution? Fat tax sounds great. No reason we can't revisit it. Fast food restaurants can still open if they're willing to pay the piper, and the city still makes money.

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Originally Posted by DetroitPole

Both sides are wrong. The city would be insane to impose a moratorium on one of the only commercial enterprises that is willing and able to survive in the city. The tax base is obvious reason, but also these are jobs - not great jobs, but for every one of them you take away you create a potential drug dealer, gang banger, prison inmate, or body at the morgue in a city where inner-city employment is virtually non-existent. It is also nice to have some functioning businesses in a city that is 1/3 vacant, and more eyes and ears and lights makes for a safer city.

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I highly doubt that the relationship between the prevalence of fast food restaurants and illegal economic activity is inverse [[i.e. increase in # restaurants <=> decrease in crime). But even if it were it would take a fast food joint on every corner in Detroit to significantly lower Detroit's crime rate.

I don't think this is the answer to Detroit's [[or America's) obesity problem, but I also don't see why the city shouldn't place restrictions on the number of fast food restaurants that operate there. Same goes for bars, liquor stores, gas stations or whatever else they feel the need to regulate.

I hope that in the immediate future, developments for fast food places are deemphasized and more "traditional" restaurants, even chains, get to set up shop in the city.. independent owned places as well as Chilis, Fridays, olive garden, etc.
Aside from the carry-out places, what kind of Chinese restaurants are in the city?

Aside from the brownfield issue that I hadn't imagined...I DO think closing existing businesses is way different than not zoning or 'permitting' new gasoline stations.

We have no previous record of closing stores for a reason beyond drug paraphernalia, right?! Well...maybe strip joints, too.

But neither have major multi-nationals backing them.

My main argument is basically against the money dump into attorney's pockets to fight for an idiotic law that shouldn't NEED to be on the lawbooks.

It is asking TOO MUCH to have the government babysit our lunchboxes.

Can someone enlighten me with the difference... healthwise.. between a fast food restaurant and a coney island??

I will stop at Wendy's and get a Grilled Chicken Sandwich, baked potato and a Caesar's "side salad". But you won't catch me stepping into a coney island type restaurant... and ordering a coney dog....

Isn't it more about WHAT your order... than WHERE you order it??

My main problem with fast food places is with the way they chew up and spit out the city's fabric. It happens all the time, all up and down every one of our arterial roads. Shabby-but-salvageable commercial building gets bought up, knocked down, Taco Bell opens up, in five years they close down again, and now instead of a boarded-up 1920s commercial building with no setback, something you could use again if this town ever got its shit together, you have a boarded-up Taco Bell that looks just like every other goddamn Taco Bell in the country. If there was a way to require them to use existing buildings, I'd be all for that. Otherwise, I don't much care where they open up or how many of them there are. I don't really eat at them anyway because I don't really like the food.

Good point Augustiner....

You viewpoint reminds me of the battle that the National Trust for Historic Preservation had a few years back when the 3 big box drug stores [[Walgreen's, CVS and Rite Aid). The big boxes were buying up the prime retail spot in towns across America... which often contained the most significant commercial architecture in those towns... and were torn down for big box [[setback) locations.

The National Trust had "The Corner of Main and Main" on one of their "11 Most Endangered Historical Sites" list a few years back. The big box drug stores sat down with The National Trust, and stopped the wholesale destruction of some of the best architecture across America.

One local example was the near destruction of the art moderne Fraser State Bank Building on the corner of Utica Rd. & 14 Mile Rd. in Fraser, to build a new CVS store... to replace the one that already existed a block from the proposed site. The folks in Fraser were nearly manning the pitchforks and torches over losing the most significant architecture in their small burb.

While in years past a lot of buildings were destroyed for fast food joints [[Orchestra Hall was saved at the last minute from being demolished for a pizza joint)... there is [[unfortunately) so much vacant commercial land in the city right now, that hopefully what has survived will not be disturbed. But as we know... there's always exceptions.

1) How is "fast food" going to be defined? Or are only large chains with specific names going to be targeted? [[Personally I wouldn't mind since they seem to be some of the greatest litter generators around).

2) Does a fast food restaurant have a larger or smaller staff than a conventional sit down place?

3) How is it possible that New Jersey has maintained by law full service gas stations all this time, without it resulting in California level fuel prices, and can Michigan impose the same?

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Originally Posted by Augustiner

My main problem with fast food places is with the way they chew up and spit out the city's fabric. It happens all the time, all up and down every one of our arterial roads. Shabby-but-salvageable commercial building gets bought up, knocked down, Taco Bell opens up, in five years they close down again, and now instead of a boarded-up 1920s commercial building with no setback, something you could use again if this town ever got its shit together, you have a boarded-up Taco Bell that looks just like every other goddamn Taco Bell in the country. If there was a way to require them to use existing buildings, I'd be all for that. Otherwise, I don't much care where they open up or how many of them there are. I don't really eat at them anyway because I don't really like the food.

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I agree, when a fast food place goes out of business, it contunues to look like a fast food place for many years after and even if someone buys the property and turns it into something else.

As far as fast food places being slow, I will hand it to Mc Donalds at Van Dyke and Outer Drive. I used to try to not go there because it was in "Detroit" but to be honest, the service and speed of that paticular location is better than any of the other Mc Donalds in the area.

If you want to talk about S-L-O-W, try going to a White Castle. I just don't get it, with burgers that small, you would think they could be made in very little time. If I want White Castle I'll only go there if there is nobody ahead of me in line.

As far as the fastest fast food place, the Wendys on Ford Road and southfield Freeway I would say has the best service. I used to go to U of M Dearborn and I don't care how long the drive through is wrapped around the building, or how long the line is inside, they are very quick to get you in and out of there.

My Mom taught me everything in moderation. It isn't the fast food places that bother me so much as kids in gas stations waiting for buses to get to school, using a bridge card to buy chips and a soda for their morning meal

LOL! Sometimes I do have to indulge --;)-- in a coney island with chilli cheese fries [[pure stupid decadence)... but Wendy's does offer a better option with their baked potatoes etc.

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Originally Posted by Gistok

Can someone enlighten me with the difference... healthwise.. between a fast food restaurant and a coney island??

I will stop at Wendy's and get a Grilled Chicken Sandwich, baked potato and a Caesar's "side salad". But you won't catch me stepping into a coney island type restaurant... and ordering a coney dog....

Isn't it more about WHAT your order... than WHERE you order it??

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Yeah, a moratorium on taxpaying businesses that employ residents in the City of Detroit is exactly what the brokest big city in the Country needs. Instead of wasting time with that, it would be cheaper and more beneficial for the City to provide incentives and put its energy into health food stores and supermarkets.

No one puts a gun to someone's head and forces them to go there. Bing has more important things to attend to. :mad:

Are these the same people bitching about the smoking ban? The state should just add its sin tax and earn some revenue from those who want to enjoy their vices in public.

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Originally Posted by Gistok

Can someone enlighten me with the difference... healthwise.. between a fast food restaurant and a coney island??

I will stop at Wendy's and get a Grilled Chicken Sandwich, baked potato and a Caesar's "side salad". But you won't catch me stepping into a coney island type restaurant... and ordering a coney dog....

Isn't it more about WHAT your order... than WHERE you order it??

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Exactly, most fast food restraunts offer salads, grilled chicken or other healthy alternatives. Its more about personal choices than it is about the vendors.

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Originally Posted by sumas

My Mom taught me everything in moderation. It isn't the fast food places that bother me so much as kids in gas stations waiting for buses to get to school, using a bridge card to buy chips and a soda for their morning meal

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There is a BP on Mack Ave. SW of Outer Drive that seems to stock nothing but those 35 cent bag of chips, and there is heavy parent/children traffic in the mornings buying the exact morning meal you described.

Yes, I think we need to outlaw all rib joints, pizza places, and soul food restaurants in the city. I also think that children should be trained to do citizens arrests in the event their parents fry anything.

How about imposing a warning label on fast food that is high in saturated fat? WARNING: This food may KILL you. I don't think it's fair to fat tax everything from a fast food joint, they do sell healthy items along side the junk food.

Is Slow's healthy food?

Perhaps that should be closed, too, in the name of Nanny Statism.

I'm having flashbacks to "Hipsters growing carrots will save Detroit!"

The McDonald's at Mack/75 is the fastest, most efficient thing in the city.

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In New York City, officials required fast food chains to post calorie counts on menus and displays.

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This would be a HUGE asset [[in the fight against huge asses.) When you walk into a fast food place or any food place for that matter, your eyes may tell you "Double-Cheesy-Bacon-Chocolate-Butter-Melt," but when your eyes look to the side and see that it has 19,000 calories you tend to say "Lemme get that 350 calorie burger."

I've dropped 25 lbs this year by watching my calories. :)

If we followed all the bullshut health guidelines, everything is bad for you and you can't eat anything!

There was a show a few months ago where they made healthy looking meals out of fast food and served it to people now knowing it was fast food.

They first served the fast food made to look like healthy food, and everyone was surprised how healthy it was and tasted good.

They took the same food, and servedit in their origional fast food wrappers and people where complaining about how bad the food was for you

Oh, don't mention Slows... I don't eat BBQ or pork often but their food is great... yummy!

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Originally Posted by BShea

Is Slow's healthy food?

Perhaps that should be closed, too, in the name of Nanny Statism.

I'm having flashbacks to "Hipsters growing carrots will save Detroit!"

The McDonald's at Mack/75 is the fastest, most efficient thing in the city.

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Originally Posted by BShea

The McDonald's at Mack/75 is the fastest, most efficient thing in the city.

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Wrong. Parking enforcement is. All city departments need to be modeled on this department.

On the list of what is unhealthy, fast food is way down the line. It is also one of the few entry-level job venues available for youth where income, structured training and employment skills can be obtained. Do I wish the menus were healthier, the employees paid better? Certainly. But shutting them out is not the way and serves only those with distant ideals who don't need those jobs.

i concur 100%

If anything this goes back to people being poorly educated about making the correct choices in life. Folks cannot see the consequences of thier actions. Change this and we will see a much better region.

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Originally Posted by Johnlodge

You're right, calling Detroit a dessert does not make any sense. It's a brunch, at best.

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I'd say it's more of a mid-afternoon snack, really.

I still want to know why they picked Detroit. I looked this issue a little bit in my blog. but I didn't really come to hard conclusions. They don't really offer any hard evidence that Detroit has greater accessibility to, or consumption of, fast food than its peers across the country and state.

Welcome to the forum, Roblinn.

Dog treats have more fat in them than burgers at McDonalds. They should be outlawed too.

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Originally Posted by RickBeall

Dog treats have more fat in them than burgers at McDonalds. They should be outlawed too.

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Good point. I think these moron "do-gooder" organizations should STFU and help people instead of impose their will on people.Next they will want to tax fast food so they can fund the next Kwame.

Fuck these prohibitionists. I rarely eat fast food, because it is shitty food and very unhealthy, but the last thing we need in this country is more laws banning personal choice. We don't need more bullshit laws banning fatty food, booze, smoking, drugs, gambling, or prostitution. What we really need is to impose a moratorium on murder, rape, robbery, burglary, shoplifting and auto theft.

These puritanical morons have their heads up their asses. We have 400 murders in this city every year, and these idiots want the city government to protect us from cheeseburgers and french fries.

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Originally Posted by Gannon

I also don't think this can be done within the bounds of the law, if we remain under the Constitution. It will be dashed to the rocks as hindering the free speech rights of corporations-as-persons. This, if made into law, will only COST the city monies we dearly do not have, wasted on lawyers yakking.


Educating the masses and providing them with true options seems the only way. Incentives to grow your OWN food and eat it closest to its raw state would be ideal, but it may be too great a cultural shock to the average person who actually thinks fast restaurants serve real food!



I used to BE a fast-food ONLY eater. I'll never forget one day on the salesfloor of a hifi store up in Birmingham...when one of my customers saw me slamming another quarter-pounder with cheese in three bites...and they said, "How can you eat that stuff?!" My flippant remark was probably, "what? you just saw me...in three bites!"


But it made a dent. I saw my health deteriorating in my late twenties into early thirties. Married at 32, all of a sudden I went from being 30 pounds overweight to 65 pounds heavy. Sick as a dog with asthma, allergic to an alarmingly increasing number of things, lethargic...and then I got my wake-up call.


Spent fifteen years diligently learning and applying what little I understood. NOW? I'm back to my high-school weight at 47, and have completed twenty marathons. They were all jog/walked...I don't consider myself a runner, THOSE folks watch the clock. I find my rhythm and pace myself, and enjoy every step...every breath.


So...can we find motivated, high-visibility individuals in each neighborhood...and prove to and through THEM there is a better way...so they can share it with those who trust and know them? The overall meme throughout the city is distrust of authority, especially governmental. So nearly anything the government tries, against the hearty momentum of the fast food industry, will be held in high suspicion.

Same approach may help eliminate the 'no snitching' rule, too! Who knows?!


Cheers

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That may have been my favorite post of yours, Gannon.

73 fast food restaurants in 139 square mile city of over 800,000 people is hardly a lot. Downtown Toronto easily has over 100 fast food restaurants in about 4 square miles. Hell, the food courts ALONE have over 100 restaurants combined.

Yes, we have horrid police and fire service, a fragile electrical grid and the 'food' police are coming. How absurd... and fake. Keeping people safe and alive to be able to eat would make more sense instead of some social reform program/ law...

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Originally Posted by erikd

Fuck these prohibitionists. I rarely eat fast food, because it is shitty food and very unhealthy, but the last thing we need in this country is more laws banning personal choice. We don't need more bullshit laws banning fatty food, booze, smoking, drugs, gambling, or prostitution. What we really need is to impose a moratorium on murder, rape, robbery, burglary, shoplifting and auto theft.

These puritanical morons have their heads up their asses. We have 400 murders in this city every year, and these idiots want the city government to protect us from cheeseburgers and french fries.

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Originally Posted by DetroitPlanner

For as much talk as there is about Detroit being a food dessert, this does not make any sense.

These folks would be light years better off going into public schools and educating the children about making wise choices, not only in selecting foods but with everything. A regular hamburger from McDonalds is not the issue, its the choice of eating the Big Mac with large fries and barrell sized coke everyday that will.

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The parents need to be educated. "Supersize Me" has a lot of good info about fast foods and nutrition including that children's behavior can be changed with proper nutrition. Parents determine the eating habits of children.
It's amazing that there are so many fast food places in the poorest city in the U.S.. As someone mentioned, there is something wrong when fast food is cheaper than fresh fruits and veggies. That's our farm bills and farm subsidies.

I saw Supersize Me, it was very compelling. Yeah, interesting that the poorest US areas have high obesity rates. I work teens from time to time and I am amazed at how much fast foods they eat, and quantity. So many young females that are obese before they have even had children. I don't mean full figured. There's a difference. I mean obese.

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Originally Posted by maxx

The parents need to be educated. "Supersize Me" has a lot of good info about fast foods and nutrition including that children's behavior can be changed with proper nutrition. Parents determine the eating habits of children.
It's amazing that there are so many fast food places in the poorest city in the U.S.. As someone mentioned, there is something wrong when fast food is cheaper than fresh fruits and veggies. That's our farm bills and farm subsidies.

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