DIA/Oakland County pay dispute

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The chairman of the Detroit Institute of Arts maintained Wednesday that a compensation package of $625,185 is justified for his top executives and that county art authorities don’t have a say if private funds are being used to pay a majority of it.

Gene Gargaro appeared before the Oakland County Art Authority to present a list of raises and bonuses for his executive staff, and a $285,000 retirement severance and forgiveness of a $155,832 housing loan for director Graham Beal, who left the museum June 30.
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Oakland County commissioner John Scott, R-Waterford Township, said he was still moving forward with a resolution to block the raises. Late Wednesday, Scott's resolution was referred to the general government committee of the Oakland County Board of Commissioners. Scott said he is asking Gargaro and members of the art authority to attend a Sept. 9 meeting to explain how bonus amounts were determined

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The money is coming from private funds, but for some reason the OC outrage factory marches on.

http://www.detroitnews.com/story/new...ises/32400461/

Not all from private funds. Meanwhile, come December 31, at the stroke of midnight, I lose my C of D health insurance forevermore. Many retired police officers are truly up the creek, because police officers do not pay into social security, thus, most do not have near enough quarters to qualify for medicare. Glad I had sense to work for 17 years after retiring in the private sector to get Medicare coverage. A little SS also, but the pension offset shatters that badly.

But, hey, life is a crap shoot anyway, isn't it? :)

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Originally Posted by Ray1936

Not all from private funds. Meanwhile, come December 31, at the stroke of midnight, I lose my C of D health insurance forevermore. Many retired police officers are truly up the creek, because police officers do not pay into social security, thus, most do not have near enough quarters to qualify for medicare. Glad I had sense to work for 17 years after retiring in the private sector to get Medicare coverage. A little SS also, but the pension offset shatters that badly.

But, hey, life is a crap shoot anyway, isn't it? :)

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As one of Tom Lehrer's songs said back in the 50s, "Soon we'll be sliding down the razor blade of life."

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Originally Posted by Ray1936

Not all from private funds. Meanwhile, come December 31, at the stroke of midnight, I lose my C of D health insurance forevermore. Many retired police officers are truly up the creek, because police officers do not pay into social security, thus, most do not have near enough quarters to qualify for medicare. Glad I had sense to work for 17 years after retiring in the private sector to get Medicare coverage. A little SS also, but the pension offset shatters that badly.

But, hey, life is a crap shoot anyway, isn't it? :)

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Where else can you work for 29 years then collect a pension and healthcare for over 30 years than Detroit and Wayne County?

Ballotpedia says Oakland County Commissioners made $33,782 in 2012. In a recent debate over whether commissioners could opt out of a 2014 pay raise for county employees, commissioner Philip Weipert stated that commissioners attend about 100 meetings that are at least partially related to being on the board. That works out to $337 per meeting.

Oakland County, with its perfect credit rating, being fiscally responsible, and Wayne County, with its abysmal credit rating, giving out 600k salaries on the taxpayer dime? Impossible! Must be Brooks' fault!

The DIA's behavior since the regional tax was passed has been nothing short of outrageous. It lends some credence to the kooks out there who think Detroit/WC should be left on their own, because their behavior is basically soak the burbs for tax dollars, then waste it on nonsense.

There will never be a re-vote, because the local powers would never allow such democracy, but the tax would be voted down in Oakland and Macomb, no question. Those counties are just being used as a piggy bank, with no benefit for county residents.

So far Wayne and Macomb County folks are neutral on this DIA pay raises matter. Besides those pay raises come from private endowments not from tax payers. So Patterson and OC folks, get used to it. You all vote the millage, you all took the deal and now here come the boom! At least you folks can enjoy DIA's beautiful art for free.

Do you think you can replace Beale with a former drug store manager? The pool of qualified applicants is tiny. Want to make it even smaller? Don't take care of the retiring guy on his way out the door. This is a billion dollar facility. You need top-end talent to run it and make it attractive to get even more BIG $ donations.

I can't help but draw comparisons to the DIA and City of Detroit and the cluster going on in Greece. They want these incredible and unrealistic cradle to grave benefits and yet their country is not able to offer jobs and wages that justify this lifestyle. It is not sustainable UNLESS the EU bails them out......so they can temporarily live in the dream world for a year or two until their country once again runs out of money and they need to come back and beg for more.

See any similarities with Greece/EU and Detroit and the surrounding counties and the State?

Those wages for the DIA are unrealistic for the City of Detroit and they are looking for the burbs to once again bail them out. Hell, they should go back to charging at the door and see how great of a job Graham did. The only way it can be funded is to force everyone to pay for it and his outlandish salary and perks. And please don't compare the DIA to the handful of world class museums - just please don't.

Lastly, the museum is NOT free. It may be for those who don't pay taxes but I can tell you it's NOT free.

I completely agree. If you want a world class institution, you have to attract world class talent. Beal has turned the DIA around and it is on the course for a stable future for generations to come.

The millage was to establish the endowment so that the museum can run on it's own. Private funding can then be used for acquisitions and to grow the museum to compete with other museums around the world.

You can certainly compare the DIA to other art museums throughout the United States and World. The DIA is in the top 20 for most visited in the United States and in the top 100 visited throughout he world. It is pretty elementary that if you want to stay competitive and increase your value, you have to invest in it.

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Originally Posted by GPCharles

Do you think you can replace Beale with a former drug store manager? The pool of qualified applicants is tiny. Want to make it even smaller? Don't take care of the retiring guy on his way out the door. This is a billion dollar facility. You need top-end talent to run it and make it attractive to get even more BIG $ donations.

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Of course Bham sees no benefit to keeping a world class art museum open in this region. Beal's salary is in line with what other directors of museums of the DIA's size[[fifth largest in the county) and quality make.

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Originally Posted by deeman

And please don't compare the DIA to the handful of world class museums - just please don't.
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Anyone who think doesn't the collection at the DIA world class is clueless

You have to spend money to make money! Or in this case, to keep our DIA open, competitive, and a destination, you have to pay for a respected and knowledgeable director!!!

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Originally Posted by jt1

Where else can you work for 29 years then collect a pension and healthcare for over 30 years than Detroit and Wayne County?

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At practically any police department, fire department, or sheriff's office in the United States. Those are jobs for young employees due to the demands of the job. Not to mention the U.S. Armed Forces, which offeres a 20-year stint for retirement. Sorry if that offends you, jt.

The usual fake-y OC political panic to create panic, using "DETROIT!" as the scapegoat. Only, in this case, most of the money is from private funds and the salaries and benefits in question are well in line with those of top executives at other comparable world-class museums [[and the decision-making has nothing to do with those "crazy n-s down in Detroit").

It would seem to me that the actions by the DIA are exactly what you would want such an institution to do in order to maintain its status and long term fiscal prospects. But, as usual, it's points-scoring time in Pontiac.

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Originally Posted by Ray1936

At practically any police department, fire department, or sheriff's office in the United States. Those are jobs for young employees due to the demands of the job. Not to mention the U.S. Armed Forces, which offeres a 20-year stint for retirement. Sorry if that offends you, jt.

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The fact that it is unsustainable and residents are left holding the bag after retirees flee the city and state is what offends me.

20 year and out packages for any career is ridiculous whether it be politician, military, police, fire, etc. Of course people don't realize that those costs and retiree health care are a major noose around the necks of older communities. Those same people happily take the pension money and benefits while complaining about the state of the community they are still collecting from.

Is there any justifiable reason that those of us left holding the bag of decisions from 50+ years ago shouldn't be offended and not offering up tears every time a retiree complains about a loss of benefits in the BK?

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Originally Posted by deeman

I can't help but draw comparisons to the DIA and City of Detroit and the cluster going on in Greece. They want these incredible and unrealistic cradle to grave benefits and yet their country is not able to offer jobs and wages that justify this lifestyle. It is not sustainable UNLESS the EU bails them out......so they can temporarily live in the dream world for a year or two until their country once again runs out of money and they need to come back and beg for more.

See any similarities with Greece/EU and Detroit and the surrounding counties and the State?

Those wages for the DIA are unrealistic for the City of Detroit and they are looking for the burbs to once again bail them out. Hell, they should go back to charging at the door and see how great of a job Graham did. The only way it can be funded is to force everyone to pay for it and his outlandish salary and perks. And please don't compare the DIA to the handful of world class museums - just please don't.

Lastly, the museum is NOT free. It may be for those who don't pay taxes but I can tell you it's NOT free.

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Yup. Once again, lazy Detroiters looking to victimize Oakland and Macomb taxpayers with a price tag. Detroiters need to look somewhere else for welfare for their museum, right?

Actually, no. With the blinders of parochialism removed, most Michiganders understand the cultural and economic importance of the DIA. They also understand that these benefits far outweigh the pittance of a burden that the temporary 0.2 mill property tax imposes on taxpayers. The tax raises over $20 million annually and the DIA Board proposes to spend $49K of it on executive salary increases and it produces outrage? This would be comical if it weren’t so sad.

Arguably, the challenges at the DIA should mean that the Board should be able to pay top scale for a director, yet the museum has agreed not to use general funds for a director salary that exceeds the median scale. And this is not fiscally responsible enough for the no new taxes crowd.

If only the rest of us would understand that only massive tax cuts will restore economic growth to our region. Wait a minute. Who cares about the region? Just lower my taxes [[and don’t make me pay for the DIA and mass transit) and I will be happy. I don’t care whether anybody is prosperous.

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Originally Posted by jt1

Is there any justifiable reason that those of us left holding the bag of decisions from 50+ years ago shouldn't be offended and not offering up tears every time a retiree complains about a loss of benefits in the BK?

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Well, you touched on where the problem lies in the "50+ years ago" thought. Every police and fire employee in the City of Detroit contributed 5% of their wages to the retirement fund. The city, by law, was supposed to equal that amount yearly into the fund. The fund, which currently is in the billions, is also expected to gain a healthy return in investments. Also, bear in mind, that the city does not pay into social security or medicare, thus the "5% equivalent" that they were supposed to contribute is less cost than if they had to pay SS and Medicare.

The big problem in Detroit, of course, is that they welched every year on their contributions [[well, at least since the Coleman days), often paying court costs when sued by the fund trying to weasel out. Secondly, the number of unwise investments made by the fund -- often resulting in complete losses, much less interest -- is well known and has received media publicity during the last dozen years or so. So had the city acted properly and the fund managers been much wiser [[and perhaps less crooked), the pension fund would be self sustaining, and residents today would only see their tax money going into the fund for current police and fire employees, not the retirees.

As for fleeing the city and state, tough stuff. I hate winter, but I return to Michigan every summer. Anyway, good discussion from opposite points of view.

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Originally Posted by swingline

Yup. Once again, lazy Detroiters looking to victimize Oakland and Macomb taxpayers with a price tag. Detroiters need to look somewhere else for welfare for their museum, right?

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Basically, yes.

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Originally Posted by swingline

Actually, no. With the blinders of parochialism removed, most Michiganders understand the cultural and economic importance of the DIA.

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Cultural importance is a completely subjective claim. If it's culturally important people will support the insitution. Claims of economic importance are absurd. There is no economic importance to the DIA. If it moved to Vegas tomorrow the region's economy would be essentially the same. If it were so important then Detroit wouldn't be in the shape it's in. The cultural center wouldn't have been a dead zone/virtual wasteland for the last 70 years; it would have been like a Dubai with this supposed giant economic engine known as the DIA.

The greatest art riches on earth, by far, are in Italy, yet Italy is a relative basket-case. Some of the best art museums in the U.S. are those in Detroit, Buffalo, Cleveland and Toledo, yet these cities have some of the worst economies. There is no relationship between quality of local art collection and relative economic health.

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Originally Posted by swingline

If only the rest of us would understand that only massive tax cuts will restore economic growth to our region. Wait a minute. Who cares about the region? Just lower my taxes [[and don’t make me pay for the DIA and mass transit) and I will be happy. I don’t care whether anybody is prosperous.

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Yes, I would be much happier and would have more money in my pocket if less money were going to to burned in the firepit that is Wayne County. And the region would be much more prosperous. Might as well just throw the cash in the fireplace and cut out the middleman.

The DIA thrived for a century based on donor support. Then a few years ago it screamed poverty and claimed it would have to close if SE Michigan didn't subsidize it forever. The taxpayers reluctantly bought in and lo and behold the DIA's leaders, those supposedly threadbare, penny-pinching public servants, are now making 600k.

And magically the DIA still isn't "free" and still isn't well-maintained. The parking garage is falling down and apparently closed indefinitely. The Frida Kahlo exhibition, which was like four rooms, cost us something like $150 for 4 people. But DIA salaries are all exploding, with the obscene raises coincidentally timed exactly to the passage of the millage.

Both sides in this matter are correct. Therefore, the solution should have been to approve the pay raises, but only for the amount of the donated funds. Basically, without the housing loan forgiveness.

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Originally Posted by Bham1982

And magically the DIA still isn't "free" and still isn't well-maintained. The parking garage is falling down and apparently closed indefinitely. The Frida Kahlo exhibition, which was like four rooms, cost us something like $150 for 4 people. But DIA salaries are all exploding, with the obscene raises coincidentally timed exactly to the passage of the millage.

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Since Kahlo tickets for adults cost either $15 [[on weekdays) or $19 [[on weekends) you had to do something odd to get the price up to $150. That ticket price is higher than I would like, but borrowing artworks is expensive and sometimes you have better sponsorship and sometimes you don't.

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Originally Posted by jt1

Where else can you work for 29 years then collect a pension and healthcare for over 30 years than Detroit and Wayne County?

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Pretty common in the public sector. Rare to non-existant in the private sector.

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Originally Posted by Bham1982

Basically, yes.

Cultural importance is a completely subjective claim. If it's culturally important people will support the insitution. Claims of economic importance are absurd. There is no economic importance to the DIA. If it moved to Vegas tomorrow the region's economy would be essentially the same. If it were so important then Detroit wouldn't be in the shape it's in. The cultural center wouldn't have been a dead zone/virtual wasteland for the last 70 years; it would have been like a Dubai with this supposed giant economic engine known as the DIA.

Some of the best art museums in the U.S. are those in Detroit, Buffalo, Cleveland and Toledo, yet these cities have some of the worst economies. There is no relationship between quality of local art collection and relative economic health.

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Well said! If the DIA closed tomorrow there would be no significant impact to the state. I am not in favor of this and will still visit ever 3 or 4 years but lets be real.

Classic example of "just tax the residents of the state" and then proceed to mismanage since there is no need to draw in new "customers".

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Originally Posted by deeman

Well said! If the DIA closed tomorrow there would be no significant impact to the state. I am not in favor of this and will still visit ever 3 or 4 years but lets be real.

Classic example of "just tax the residents of the state" and then proceed to mismanage since there is no need to draw in new "customers".

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The DIA last year had 630,000 visitors a big increase over the 594,000 the previous year and by far the most it has had in the last 10 years. How's that for mismanagement?

http://www.dia.org/about/facts.aspx

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Originally Posted by MSUguy

The DIA last year had 630,000 visitors a big increase over the 594,000 the previous year and by far the most it has had in the last 10 years. How that for mismanagement?

http://www.dia.org/about/facts.aspx

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Exactly, the DIA is actually flourishing. Looking better, with more galleries consistently open, than has been the case for many years. And, whether or not you go there yourself, it does draw visitors from all over the area and is a major stop for visitors to our area from other parts of the country and overseas. The Rivera murals alone draw thousands of visitors from outside of Michigan every year.

And, beyond all that, it the most important art and cultural institution as exists in Michigan, an enormous civic asset, and along with Chicago's and Cleveland's museums, among the elite museums in the midwest.