Detroit's World City Ranking

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August-17-11, 02:34 AM
BrushStart

Detroit's World City Ranking
We are gamma- as of 2010, but still ranked.

I thought I'd go through the factors:

Economic characteristics
- Corporate headquarters for multinational corporations, international financial institutions, law firms, conglomerates, and stock exchanges that have influence over the world economy.
  - Metro Detroit has 12 Fortune 500 companies [[Ford, General Motors, GMAC, TRW, Lear, Penske Group, DTE, Masco, Visteon, Autoliv, ArvinMeritor, Kelly Services). In 2006, we had 23 Fortune 500 companies.
  - We don't have many major financial institutions [[Comerica screwed us). We still have GMAC, Ford Credit, and Quicken Loans is a new addition.
  - Metro Detroit doesn't have a single law firm ranked in the Vault 100.
  - The Detroit Stock Exchange is long extinct.
- Significant financial capacity/output: city/regional GDP
  - Detroit has the 23rd largest GDP in the world at $253 billion
- Stock market indices/market capitalisation
  - No indicies based in Detroit, but we do have many publicly traded companies
- Financial service provision; e.g., banks, accountancy
  - Again, Comerica screwed us, but we are saved by the Big 4 accounting firms
- Costs of living personal wealth; e.g., number of billionaires
  - Detroit has the 9th most millionaires of U.S. cities [[92,000) total, and several billionaires, Matty Maroun, Mike Ilitch, Dan Gilbert, can we claim Tom Gores now?
Political characteristics
- Active influence on and participation in international events and world affairs; for example, Washington, London, Paris, Tokyo, Berlin, Rome, Moscow, Canberra and Beijing are major capitals of influential nations or unions.
  - Detroit has international collaboration with Windsor, Canada, and is also the busiest border crossing in North America for commerce and trade.
- Hosting headquarters for international organizations [[World Bank), NATO headquarters
  - Is the UAW an international organization? I think it is.
- A large proper, population of the municipality [[the centre of a metropolitan area, typically several million) or agglomeration
  - Metropolitan Detroit is a very large agglomeration of communities, with a declining urban center. It is the 11th largest MSA in the U.S.
- Diverse demographic constituencies based on various indicators: population, habitat, mobility, and urbanisation
  - No, not really.
- Expatriate communities
  - Largest Arab expatriate community in the U.S.
Cultural characteristics
- International, first-name familiarity. For example, New York City and Los Angeles are commonly referred to as just "New York" and "LA" respectively, without needing to specify its state or location within the United States.
  - Everyone in the world knows Detroit, the "Motor City," "Motown," etc.
- Renowned cultural institutions [[often with high endowments), such as notable museums and galleries, notable opera, orchestras, notable film centres and theatre centres.
  - The Detroit Institute of Arts
  - The Henry Ford
  - The Museum of African American History
  - The Detroit Opera
  - The Detroit Symphony Orchestra is recognized internationally
  - Detroit has a fledgling film industry
  - Detroit has the 2nd highest concentration of theatres outside of Broadway
- A lively cultural scene, including film festivals [[such as the Toronto International Film Festival), premieres, a thriving music scene, nightlife, an opera company, art galleries, street performers, and annual parades.
  - Detroit is the origin of Motown, Techno, and arguably Punk Rock, and is the birthplace of stars like Aretha Franklin, Michael Jackson, Eminem, and Kid Rock, all of whom are known internationally.
  - Detroit has a thriving music scene, including the Detroit Electronic Music Festival, Jazz Festival, and Hoedown.
  - Nightlife scene is strong.
  - Detroit has a high concentration of art galleries and is recognized as a growing arts epicenter, i.e. Sugar Hill, Russell Industrial, etc.
  - Street performers? Maybe that guy who plays that sax in Greektown?
  - America's Thanksgiving Day parade is hosted by Detroit.
- Several influential media outlets with an international reach, such as the BBC, Reuters, The New York Times, or Agence France-Presse.
  - We have two regional newspapers with very limited international reach, outside of Windsor, Canada.
- A strong sporting community, including major sports facilities, home teams in major league sports, and the ability and historical experience to host international sporting events such as the Olympic Games, FIFA World Cup, or Grand Slam tennis events.
  - Detroit has 4 professional sports teams, which are well-known [[losing the Detroit Shock to Tulsa, OK cost us)
  - Detroit has hosted the Superbowl, MLB All Star Game, NCAA Final Four, and NCAA Frozen Four, but no international events
  - Detroit bid for the 1968 Olympics and may contend for the 2020 Summer Olympics
- Educational institutions; e.g., universities, international student attendance, research facilities
  - University of Michigan is an international research institution
  - Wayne State University is a major research institution
  - Eastern Michigan University is a research institution
  - Lawrence Tech is highly regarded technical school
  - College for Creative Studies is highly regarded arts school
- Sites of pilgrimage for world religions [[for example, Mecca, Jerusalem or Rome)
  - Not really.
- Cities containing World Heritage Sites of historical and cultural significance
  - Nope.
- Tourism throughout
  - Detroit is America's 23rd most visited city with 15.3 million travelers
- City as site or subject in arts and media, television, film, video games, music, literature, magazines, articles, documentary
  - Philip Levine is named poet laureate
  - Detroit appears or is discussed regularly in all forms of media
- City as an often repeated historic reference, showcase, or symbolic actions
  - Yes, Detroit represents cars, heavy industry, the middle class, unions, music, and African Americans. Sadly, Detroit is also a symbol for crime, segregation, decline, and blight.
Infrastructural characteristics
- An advanced transportation system that includes several highways and/or a large mass transit network offering multiple modes of transportation [[rapid transit, light rail, regional rail, ferry, or bus), for example the London Underground.
  - Detroit has an extensive highway system
  - Metro Detroit operates 2 bus systems, DDOT and SMART, and receives overlap service from the Windsor Transit Authority Tunnel Bus
  - Detroit has a 2.9 mile elevated rail line carrying 2.2 million passengers per year
  - Detroit has 4 connections to Canada: Ambassador Bridge, Bluewater Bridge, Detroit-Windsor Tunnel, and a heavy rail tunnel.
  - Detroit has a new downtown port, but no ferry service
- Extensive and popular mass transit systems, prominent rail usage, road vehicle usage, major seaports
  - Mass transit is not very popular. Personal vehicle ownership is high.
- A major international airport that serves as an established hub for several international airlines, for example, London. Airports with significant passenger traffic and international passengers traffic or cargo movements.
  - Detroit Metropolitan Airport is the 17th busiest airport in the U.S. with many international destinations.
  - DTW is a major hub for Delta Airlines.
  - McNamara Terminal is one of the most advanced airport terminals in the world.
- An advanced communications infrastructure on which modern trans-national corporations rely, such as fiberoptics, Wi-Fi networks, cellular phone services, and other high-speed lines of communications. For example, Seoul and Tokyo are known as the digital and technology capitals of the world.
  - Detroit is a typical U.S. city with infrastructure supporting all popular technologies.
  - City-wide WiFi service has been proposed.
- Health facilities; e.g., hospitals, medical laboratories
  - Metro Detroit is home to several major medical facilities, including the Detroit Medical Center [[Vanguard), Henry Ford Hospital, Beaumont Hospital, UofM Research Hospital Campus, Oakwood Hospital, St. Joseph Mercy Health System, etc.
- Prominent skylines/skyscrapers [[for example Chicago or Hong Kong)
  - One of the largest office complexes in the world [[Renaissance Center)
  - The tallest hotel in the Western Hemisphere [[Marriott)
  - The finest collection of pre-war era, Art Deco skyscrapers in the world, including the "Cathedral of Finance" aka Guardian Building.
- Cities' telephone and mail services, airport flights-range, traffic congestion, availability of water, train facilities, nearby parks, hospitals, libraries, police stations, etc.
  - Telephone and mail service are on par with other major U.S. cities
  - Airport flight range is international
  - Traffic congestion is moderate
  - Detroit Water & Sewage is considered to be among the cleanest treated water in the world.
  - Detroit is located in Michigan, which is surrounded by the world's 5 Great Lakes.
  - Train facilities are limited.
  - Belle Isle Park is the largest city park in the U.S. and the nearby Metro Park system is enviable.
  - Hospitals are plentiful, see above.
  - Libraries are plentiful, for now.
  - Detroit could use a more effective police presence.
Well, that's my analysis. What areas do you think we could improve the most?
August-17-11, 04:32 AM
animatedmartian

I'm surprised our GDP is so high. $253 Billion sure sounds like a lot of money. The car companies probably have a huge sway over the figure. I checked out the GDP list on wikipedia and we actually tie with Toronto. Cools.

...and then I read the list excludes metro areas. Doh.
August-17-11, 04:56 AM
Meddle

Many [[most?) of those points are about the Wayne-Oakland-Macomb tri county area and not Detroit proper.
August-17-11, 07:50 AM
iheartthed

Quote:

Originally Posted by BrushStart

Well, that's my analysis. What areas do you think we could improve the most?

Of things directly under the government control? Transit infrastructure.
August-17-11, 09:43 AM
canuck

Agreed Meddle, and iheartthed by the same token. For one thing, the statistics are for metro GDP that is for sure, although that is not a bad thing. Do the math and try to imagine what a city-region with this wealth can achieve in terms of transit infrastructure, educational opportunities, health care, etc...

And BrushStart, I like your list. It is funny how you mention that you are still on that list though.
Can you imagine Detroit Metro dropping off that list?

I have been saying this all along, the fact that Detroit Metro or SEM is in 21st place out of the hundreds of major cities on earth, some much bigger in population shows that there needs to be a regional structure dedicated to the welfare of all in the region. It is a matter of time, when are we going to see stuff happen?

On transit-

What would happen if a regional authority got it together and gave the red light to high quality transit, with a whopping Michigan-built component? What would happen if Detroit chose the latest in suburban rail with intermodal stations at key points in the region? And perhaps MCS could be a part of the equation as a central hub, close enough to downtown with circuits radiating from there.
August-17-11, 11:29 AM
BrushStart
Quote:

Originally Posted by canuck

And BrushStart, I like your list. It is funny how you mention that you are still on that list though.
Can you imagine Detroit Metro dropping off that list?

Can I imagine it? Most definitely. As I was making that list, I was pondering all of Detroit's assets, and unfortunately, many of them are in the past. Detroit is way down from its peak of international influence.

The loss of almost 15 Fortune 500 companies in a 4-year span really stung.
Here's the list of companies that fell off just since 2006:
1. Delphi
2. Pulte Homes
3. United Auto Group
4. Federal-Mogul
5. BorgWarner
6. Borders Group
7. Comerica Bank
8. Tower Automotive
9. American Axle & Mfg
10. Hayes Lemmerz
11. Dura Automotive
12. Metaldyne
13. La-Z-Boy
14. Domino's Pizza
When you look at that list, it really blows your mind how much economic damage Metro Detroit has endured. It is near catastrophic. If it weren't for the GM bailout in '08, we might be down to 2 Fortune 500 Companies, Ford and DTE.

Detroit is really getting screwed by Washington's trade policies. Detroit is one of the few places left in the the U.S. where physical objects actually get produced. If the trend continues, we'll probably be wiped out. Outsourcing is killing Detroit's industrial base. Companies are either leaving for Asia, Mexico, or South America, like America Axle, or they are falling into the abyss.

The infrastructure issue is definitely local government's fault. It is by far our weakest point. It could be solved so easily, yet nothing progresses.

I'd say our strongest point is arts and culture. While our economic influence has fallen dramatically, I feel like our cultural influence has risen over the past decade, and continues to make gains.

That said, Detroit's spot as a global city is definitely in jeopardy. It is hard to believe considering the cities ranked above us. Portland, Minneapolis, Seattle, San Jose, Denver, and Atlanta all rank higher than Detroit.

Not to mention, we are outranked by a number of what I would consider bullshit, 3rd world cities. How can places like Kalkota [[India), Bratislava [[Slovakia), Guadalajara [[Mexico), Santo Domingo [[Dominican Rep.), and Guatemala City [[Guatemala) rank higher than Detroit?

It gets worse when you consider all of "WTF!" places that rank higher than Detroit. Does anyone even know where these cities are: Ljubljana, Zagreb, Manama, and Nicosia. No offense, but even a beat-up Detroit should rank higher.
August-17-11, 11:44 AM
Bham1982

I have been to Guadalajara on business and I would not call it 3rd World. It's a boomtown of 5-6 million people with skyscrapers going up all over the place, and multiple "Somerset" type luxury malls.

Yes, also many poor neighborhoods, but I haven't seen any hard-core shanty-style slums. They probably exist, though, in the suburbs [[Latin American cities tend to have their crappiest areas in the suburbs/exurbs).

BTW, I wouldn't get worked up about this. It's just one group's opinion. There is no "official" list of World Cities. We could probably make a better list here on DYes.
August-17-11, 01:44 PM
canuck
Quote:
Originally Posted by BrushStart

Can I imagine it? Most definitely. As I was making that list, I was pondering all of Detroit's assets, and unfortunately, many of them are in the past. Detroit is way down from its peak of international influence.

The loss of almost 15 Fortune 500 companies in a 4-year span really stung.
Here's the list of companies that fell off just since 2006:

Delphi
Pulte Homes
United Auto Group
Federal-Mogul
BorgWarner
Borders Group
Comerica Bank
Tower Automotive
American Axle & Mfg
Hayes Lemmerz
Dura Automotive
Metaldyne
La-Z-Boy
Domino's Pizza

When you look at that list, it really blows your mind how much economic damage Metro Detroit has endured. It is near catastrophic. If it weren't for the GM bailout in '08, we might be down to 2 Fortune 500 Companies, Ford and DTE.

Detroit is really getting screwed by Washington's trade policies. Detroit is one of the few places left in the the U.S. where physical objects actually get produced. If the trend continues, we'll probably be wiped out. Outsourcing is killing Detroit's industrial base. Companies are either leaving for Asia, Mexico, or South America, like America Axle, or they are falling into the abyss.

The infrastructure issue is definitely local government's fault. It is by far our weakest point. It could be solved so easily, yet nothing progresses.

I'd say our strongest point is arts and culture. While our economic influence has fallen dramatically, I feel like our cultural influence has risen over the past decade, and continues to make gains.

That said, Detroit's spot as a global city is definitely in jeopardy. It is hard to believe considering the cities ranked above us. Portland, Minneapolis, Seattle, San Jose, Denver, and Atlanta all rank higher than Detroit.

Not to mention, we are outranked by a number of what I would consider bullshit, 3rd world cities. How can places like Kalkota [[India), Bratislava [[Slovakia), Guadalajara [[Mexico), Santo Domingo [[Dominican Rep.), and Guatemala City [[Guatemala) rank higher than Detroit?

It gets worse when you consider all of "WTF!" places that rank higher than Detroit. Does anyone even know where these cities are: Ljubljana, Zagreb, Manama, and Nicosia. No offense, but even a beat-up Detroit should rank higher.
Yes, well along with the globalized economy come boomtowns and countries on the upward slope in certain things. The shakeup of american know-how in industry in commerce is now accompanied by the "financial crisis" that was brought about by greed and uncontrolled spending by average earners. So, in China, people are still paid a fraction of your average earners in the US and Canada. They cant afford the millions of apartments that were built by their government to prop up their GDP. They save 40% of their income because among other things, the communist state doesnt cover medical expenses. Two sides of a same medal if you ask me. The super rich in China have a good time of it in this paradise.
August-17-11, 02:21 PM
JBMcB

Quote:

Originally Posted by BrushStart

Detroit is really getting screwed by Washington's trade policies. Detroit is one of the few places left in the the U.S. where physical objects actually get produced. If the trend continues, we'll probably be wiped out. Outsourcing is killing Detroit's industrial base.

The US is still the largest manufacturer in the world. We still make more stuff than China. In pretty much every category except clothes and shoes, we export more than China as well. We're just using machines to make it.

Unless you have a technical degree and can fix machines, you probably aren't getting a good manufacturing job in the US anymore.
August-17-11, 02:50 PM
DetroitPole

Quote:

Originally Posted by BrushStart

That said, Detroit's spot as a global city is definitely in jeopardy. It is hard to believe considering the cities ranked above us. Portland, Minneapolis, Seattle, San Jose, Denver, and Atlanta all rank higher than Detroit.

Not to mention, we are outranked by a number of what I would consider bullshit, 3rd world cities. How can places like Kalkota [[India), Bratislava [[Slovakia), Guadalajara [[Mexico), Santo Domingo [[Dominican Rep.), and Guatemala City [[Guatemala) rank higher than Detroit?

It gets worse when you consider all of "WTF!" places that rank higher than Detroit. Does anyone even know where these cities are: Ljubljana, Zagreb, Manama, and Nicosia. No offense, but even a beat-up Detroit should rank higher.

Why? Because it is in the United States?

Ljubijana
http://frysingerreunion.org/gc09/ljubijana114.jpg

Zagreb
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-h-T9TXo7qg...00/zagreb1.jpg

Bratislava
http://www.wt-fischbacher.at/spitzer...bratislava.jpg

Bullshit to who? To you, as an American? These cities have been around for hundreds of years more than Detroit. They may not have gigantic interstate freeways where in the suburbs everyone owns 3 cars but they are very livable and beautiful places. And those three cities don't fit the traditional definition of third world anyway [[second world, as former communist, to be exact).

Unfortunately all Metro Detroit really has keeping it where it is at all is the massive amount of wealth that the auto industry generated and the economy it has created. All in all there isn't much quality of life here, just kind of a gigantic, grey, flat, sprawling mess.

It's like how people wail and gnash their teeth that some filmmaker would rather be killing time in Krakow. Yeah, because Metro Detroit sucks, guys. We could learn something from Bratislava. I feel like some people here have never been outside of the midwest.
August-17-11, 03:33 PM
BrushStart

Quote:

Originally Posted by DetroitPole

Why? Because it is in the United States?

Ljubijana
http://frysingerreunion.org/gc09/ljubijana114.jpg

Zagreb
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-h-T9TXo7qg...00/zagreb1.jpg

Bratislava
http://www.wt-fischbacher.at/spitzer...bratislava.jpg

Bullshit to who? To you, as an American? These cities have been around for hundreds of years more than Detroit. They may not have gigantic interstate freeways where in the suburbs everyone owns 3 cars but they are very livable and beautiful places. And those three cities don't fit the traditional definition of third world anyway [[second world, as former communist, to be exact).

Unfortunately all Metro Detroit really has keeping it where it is at all is the massive amount of wealth that the auto industry generated and the economy it has created. All in all there isn't much quality of life here, just kind of a gigantic, grey, flat, sprawling mess.

It's like how people wail and gnash their teeth that some filmmaker would rather be killing time in Krakow. Yeah, because Metro Detroit sucks, guys. We could learn something from Bratislava. I feel like some people here have never been outside of the midwest.

Wow. Did i touch on a tender subject or are you just having a bad day?

I don't really give a shit how "nice" these cities are. The topic is not about "history" or "beauty" or "enjoyability." The whole discussion is about INFLUENCE. International influence to be exact.

To determine which cities have the largest influence on the world, we use a quotient of power in politics, economics, religion, culture, and infrastructure.

Being both well-educated and well-traveled, when I have never heard of certain cities that are ranked as having significant global influence, it bothers me. It especially bothers me when those cities are ranked higher than Detroit, a city that has influenced almost every culture in the world. Detroit has more economic power, more wealth, and has had more influence on culture than those other cities, yet somehow they rank higher.

I put it to you. Please tell me what global influence these cities have: Ljubljana, Zagreb, Manama, and Nicosia. Please tell me how they affect world politics, world economics, world culture, or have superior infrastructure. Because that's what I thought we were talking about here.
August-17-11, 04:03 PM
Gistok

Quote:

Originally Posted by DetroitPole

Why? Because it is in the United States?

Ljubijana
http://frysingerreunion.org/gc09/ljubijana114.jpg

Zagreb
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-h-T9TXo7qg...00/zagreb1.jpg

Bratislava
http://www.wt-fischbacher.at/spitzer...bratislava.jpg

Bullshit to who? To you, as an American? These cities have been around for hundreds of years more than Detroit. They may not have gigantic interstate freeways where in the suburbs everyone owns 3 cars but they are very livable and beautiful places. And those three cities don't fit the traditional definition of third world anyway [[second world, as former communist, to be exact).

Unfortunately all Metro Detroit really has keeping it where it is at all is the massive amount of wealth that the auto industry generated and the economy it has created. All in all there isn't much quality of life here, just kind of a gigantic, grey, flat, sprawling mess.

It's like how people wail and gnash their teeth that some filmmaker would rather be killing time in Krakow. Yeah, because Metro Detroit sucks, guys. We could learn something from Bratislava. I feel like some people here have never been outside of the midwest.

You just waxed poetically about 3 capitals of countries whose entire population could fit into metro Detroit...

If you think Detroit is so culturally devoid... then move to Bratislava [[literally a suburb of Vienna only 37 miles away)... and enjoy the cabbage rolls and Gypsy music.... that's pretty much the major culture you'll find.

Major world class symphonies... not in any of those cities...
Major world class opera... not in any of those cities...
Major encyclopedic Art Museums... not in any of those cities...
Major destinations for world class entertainers... not in those cities...
Major airports.... not in those cities...
Major industrial powerhouses... not in those cities...

Nice midsized beautiful old capitals of small countries with history and tourist sites.... that's them...

Let's keep it in perspective...
August-17-11, 05:48 PM
DetroitPole

Okay, so you guys think its still 1952, fine, whatever.

I understand your point about the mid-sized city but hell, greater Kabul has about as many people as Metro Detroit, but that doesn't make it a world class city. Mogadishu has 2 million people, and may be the only place in the world with worse transit than Metro Detroit.

All this bullshit about international influence...yeah, right. Buffalo has a border crossing, too, and it's still Buffalo. The auto executives went to congress a couple years ago acting like they were hot shit and got their asses handed to them. Dingell was ousted in favor of Waxman on the House Energy and Commerce Committee. I'm not sure what kind of imagined influence we have over anybody anymore. The whole state is losing representation, in case you haven't noticed in the last election.

I also wouldn't use the Symphony as a shining example of our palaces of culture, either. Kind of glaring how we can't pay for it and all. Again, our incredible institutions are essentially relics of our industrial past and now we have to figure out how to support them or downgrade them.Perhaps a key difference is that places like Bratislava are on the up-and-up. We can't even build a goddamn single line of light rail or a bridge here. You forgot to mention that in your fair-and-balanced analysis. But you did mention the People Mover. Now that is just embarrassing.
August-17-11, 06:21 PM
canuck

Quote:

Originally Posted by JBMcB

The US is still the largest manufacturer in the world. We still make more stuff than China. In pretty much every category except clothes and shoes, we export more than China as well. We're just using machines to make it.

Unless you have a technical degree and can fix machines, you probably aren't getting a good manufacturing job in the US anymore.

You are right about that and the machinery is also changing very fast in Chinese manufacturing. The company that manufactures a lot of Apple product will multiply the robotic machinery in the next couple of years making a lot of assembly jobs redundant. The manpower issues are something China will have to be very creative about.
August-18-11, 10:25 AM
urbanhat

Quote:

Originally Posted by BrushStart

Being both well-educated and well-traveled, when I have never heard of certain cities that are ranked as having significant global influence, it bothers me. It especially bothers me when those cities are ranked higher than Detroit, a city that has influenced almost every culture in the world. Detroit has more economic power, more wealth, and has had more influence on culture than those other cities, yet somehow they rank higher.

I put it to you. Please tell me what global influence these cities have: Ljubljana, Zagreb, Manama, and Nicosia. Please tell me how they affect world politics, world economics, world culture, or have superior infrastructure. Because that's what I thought we were talking about here.

Ljubljana, Zagreb, Manama, and Nicosia are all national capitals.. even if they're relatively small cities in relatively small countries, virtually all of those countries' economic, political, and cultural capital is concentrated in those cities and, more importantly, they act as the conduit between those countries and the rest of the world. Detroit has had wealth, but it doesn't have that kind of connecting power, and connections are what matter these days.

No question Detroit did at one time have more influence, but that's not so true today.
Still, one could imagine if you gave more weight to economic flows and less weight to political influence, Detroit would rank higher.
August-18-11, 10:44 AM
Bham1982

Quote:

Originally Posted by DetroitPole

Perhaps a key difference is that places like Bratislava are on the up-and-up. We can't even build a goddamn single line of light rail or a bridge here.

I would say this is highly debatable. Slovakia is a relatively poor nation with a declining population. Most of the young, educated folks head elsewhere, mostly to Western Europe's major cities.

And I don't think "presence of light rail" is indicative of a city's importance. LA is pretty damn important, and barely has any rail. Houston had none until very recently. Athens just added rail recently. Rome has a system, but it's a joke.

Sao Paulo, Mumbai, Cairo and Bangkok are all huge world cities with limited rail.

Detroit, for all its many warts, remains an important city with a global name. It's still a wealthy region with some of the world's most important firms.
August-18-11, 11:26 AM
iheartthed

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bham1982

And I don't think "presence of light rail" is indicative of a city's importance. LA is pretty damn important, and barely has any rail. Houston had none until very recently. Athens just added rail recently. Rome has a system, but it's a joke.

Sao Paulo, Mumbai, Cairo and Bangkok are all huge world cities with limited rail.

Probably doesn't offer any definitive statements about where a city currently is at in the snapshot, but it probably does say something about where that city ultimately headed. LA, Houston, Detroit and Sao Paulo all had pretty extensive rail based transit networks at one point.
August-18-11, 01:58 PM
canuck

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bham1982

I would say this is highly debatable. Slovakia is a relatively poor nation with a declining population. Most of the young, educated folks head elsewhere, mostly to Western Europe's major cities.

And I don't think "presence of light rail" is indicative of a city's importance. LA is pretty damn important, and barely has any rail. Houston had none until very recently. Athens just added rail recently. Rome has a system, but it's a joke.

Sao Paulo, Mumbai, Cairo and Bangkok are all huge world cities with limited rail.

Detroit, for all its many warts, remains an important city with a global name. It's still a wealthy region with some of the world's most important firms.

Los Angeles and Sao Paulo have some pretty extensive rail additions planned or being built. Sao Paulo has a monorail by Bombardier in the works. Rome has a subway and extensive rail system and Athens has an old subway system [[1904)and two small suburban rail lines one of which serves the airport. Mumbai Cairo and Bangkok all have a limited subway system that are bound to expand in the near future. I think Detroit would have suffered less damage if a subway or suburban rail had connected people to opportunities. Rail is an important alternative to freeways, not a substitute, but I hate to think of the missed opportunities if the next decade does not offer some rail service to detroiters with modern hubs and shelter for passengers.
August-18-11, 03:33 PM
urbanhat

Mumbai has an extensive, very important, and very heavily used commuter rail system. It's limited compared to the population, but more extensive than most US cities.
August-18-11, 04:13 PM
BrushStart

What I wonder is if diversity of infrastructure matters as much as quantity. I mean, in terms of infrastructure, Detroit is very well-developed, it has just chosen one type of infrastructure to the exclusion of all others. It's not as if we don't have a means of moving people and goods around, we just have only allowed for a single way of doing it, i.e. cars and trucks. If diversity of infrastructure is as important as quantity, then we get screwed on this factor. If not, we're probably doing okay seeing as we have basically covered our entire landmass in concrete and asphalt "infrastructure."
August-18-11, 04:27 PM
iheartthed

Quote:

Originally Posted by BrushStart

What I wonder is if diversity of infrastructure matters as much as quantity. I mean, in terms of infrastructure, Detroit is very well-developed, it has just chosen one type of infrastructure to the exclusion of all others. It's not as if we don't have a means of moving people and goods around, we just have only allowed for a single way of doing it, i.e. cars and trucks. If diversity of infrastructure is as important as quantity, then we get screwed on this factor. If not, we're probably doing okay seeing as we have basically covered our entire landmass in concrete and asphalt "infrastructure."

Yes, it absolutely does matter. In developed countries, I have seen pretty much two trends: 1) cheap transportation and expensive real estate, or 2) expensive transportation with cheap real estate. A place like New York falls into 1) and Detroit falls into 2). Detroit has the capacity to move a lot of people in and out, but it's expensive because you have to bring your own mode. NY, on the other hand, has capacity to move a lot of people in and out in a variety of modes, and much of it only requires a couple of dollars and your own two feet.