Anybody able to post pictures of the progress of the under-contruction City Club apartments?
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Anybody able to post pictures of the progress of the under-contruction City Club apartments?
http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/show...02019&page=240
theres one halfway through this post...just a hole in the ground
I walked by there tonight and nothing vertical yet. Still just a hole in the ground.
hybridy, are you a skyscraperpage forumer? If so, what’s your username, out of curiosity? That post you’re referring to is mine, haha.
Already a thread on this with pictures and everything:
https://www.detroityes.com/mb/showth...-Stalter-Hotel
These need to be merged.
i merely lurk there...i am not an active poster :cool: thanks for all of the photo posts though. those of us no longer local greatly appreciate itQuote:
Originally Posted by NSortzi
No problem! I’m happy to do it.
Anyways, there has been crews actively working at the site every day. I’m not sure why nothings changed visually in months.
This project is now vertical, with steel above ground.
Steel? I thought it was a wooden sticks build.Quote:
Originally Posted by MrChrome
Not at 8 stories, no. You can only do stick built up to 4 or 5 stories depending on the local government codes.Quote:
Originally Posted by 401don
I'm actually surprised that they are going with steel instead of concrete, though. The two basement parking will definitely be done in concrete, though, which is why I'm surprised to here about steel at all at this point in its construction.
As MrChrome said, there is steel rising right now. I took this photo on July 13th. The steel is on the north end of the site along Park Avenue.https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1808/...c7d78505_b.jpgCity Club Apartments CBD Detroit by Nick Sortzi, on Flickr
August 2, 2018
Attachment 36302
https://image.ibb.co/eWnqDz/Screen_S...1_44_02_AM.png
Here's a rendering I found from city club apartments website, I gotta say this looks way better and fits way nicer into gcp than i thought it would.. although some of it is probably being at 'night' with shiny lights everywhere but it actually looks really nice! looking forward to the final outcome
It is way, way too small vertically for that space. It's going to look ridiculous.Quote:
Originally Posted by SpartanDawg
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Originally Posted by drjeff
I think it should be taller too, but i don't think it's going to look 'ridiculous'. it is about the same height as the opera house, which is it's sister block across woodward.. and it is taller than the madison. also around the same height as the cambridge house apartments and the building housing the david klein gallery across washington. Should it have been taller? I agree yes, but I don't think it's as bad as we thought it would be. to each his/her own though I definitely see your argument
Even if it was only 4-5 stories taller I think it'd be a big improvement. Having said that, it is what it is. We will just have to wait and see how it turns out. My hope would be that the current parking site fronting GCP of the UA Building will get built on, something in the 15-20 story range. I think once something is on that site, it will even out the park visually. Just a shame that the Statler couldn't hold on a few more years there.
City Club Apartments rise. Labor Day weekend 2019.
Attachment 38884
It doesn't seem like this project has made much progress over the last few months. Anyone know what's going on?
They're finishing it up. Just about done.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uIbexQY09bc&t=97s
The construction here has been painstakingly slow.
They're out there working every day. Some parts of the building show progress while others do not. Maybe they've hit some snags?Quote:
Originally Posted by JTburner
I'm not sure if Frankai Videos visits this forum, but I love his YouTube channel.
If you're looking for a wooden apartment complex that is taking even longer than City Club, check out The Griffin in Royal Oak. Feels like they've been working on that for at least three years. I think these apartment complexes get to a point where there's work going on, but not a ton of visible progress from outside.
EDIT: The Griffin broke ground in June of 2018. This miserable year has skewed my sense of time I think.
Yeah if you look at construction timelines for various buildings, you'd be surprised how soon the building can go up but how long the interior takes. Plumbing, electrical, drywall, painting, all have to go up one after another and it's not really anything that can be sped up by machinery, just a lot of people working inside the building.Quote:
Originally Posted by EGrant
It's almost done.
Update on the ? "Stick-trosity" ? City Club Apartments. It's flashy chaotic design stands out in stark contrast to the bleak Soviet-style former Trolley Plaza behind it. Get used to it.
View from Grand Circus Park.
Attachment 40946
View from Washington Blvd.
Attachment 40947
The View down Park Ave.
Attachment 40948
I’m so depressed by this....Quote:
Originally Posted by Lowell
It looks fine to me. The internet has been complaining about this development for years, it's time to get over it.
This is actually one of the less offensive designs cityclub has come up with, but I do agree they need to fire whoever their architect/designer is.
That would be an interesting conversation. Considering the budget you were given, your building looks fine. Therefore you're fired.Quote:
Originally Posted by Satiricalivory
Their other buildings usually have insane wacky materials and colors.Quote:
Originally Posted by 401don
That building is fine. In fact lots of people can't wait to move in.
Lol! That belongs in brush park or midtown or new center, NOT on prime land in downtown. Geeze. Oh wellQuote:
Originally Posted by Seven&wyo
I'm over complaining about this design. It creates a very nice streetwall on Washington, and should bring some much-needed foot traffic to the area [[and even more when the Book opens). There's plenty of other empty lots we can develop with architectural gems in the future.
What do you expect? A 100 story New York-esque skyscraper. That you buy with a million dollars?Quote:
Originally Posted by Dmberko11
I think it could've been 15-20 stories at least. It just doesn't fit into its neighborhood. I think they could've just waited for the right development. Even if that meant letting it sit for another 10 years undeveloped. Now you have the suburban stick crap that'll be there for the next 50 years!Quote:
Originally Posted by Danny
Can’t I hate them both?Quote:
Originally Posted by Satiricalivory
If you want to keep the footprint, 20 stories would be a massive undertaking that would likely not completely rent out for years. I think this 7 story development is like 250 apartment, so we’re talking at least 500 apartments. Unless they did some mixed uses I couldn’t see a 500+ Apartment development being feasible right now.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dmberko11
I’d rather have a shorter building with a bigger footprint than a tall building on a small lot.
You must not visit downtown that much... :eek:Quote:
Originally Posted by JonWylie
I'm happy for the 250 apartments, that's a good number. And you're right, it would've had to have been mixed use to go taller if it were to cover the full block because 500 apartments probably wouldn't be feasible. But then again, maybe it is? How has demand for downtown living been? Is it still pretty strong? I live in Texas so I only have you guys and the usual suspects to go to for development news on the region.Quote:
Originally Posted by JonWylie
Downtowns are supposed to have tall buildings on smaller lots. Twenty storeys wouldn't be considered remotely tall for a residential building overlooking anything similar to Grand Circus Park in most cities. However we know why it was built as it was. They didn't want to spend the money on a steel/concrete highrise.Quote:
Originally Posted by JonWylie
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Originally Posted by 401don
But those developers spend money on 10,000 cut down trees to build wood frames for apts. What a waste of trees.
I'm not really sure what that means, but I live in a nice 10 story building and I'd much rather have more of those filling up lots than one huge building. If you have a 20+ story building, you don't get any more store fronts or restaurants at the ground level, you just get more people living above. With the amount of open land, it would be hard to convince a developer to go higher when they could building multiple smaller buildings.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gistok
Yeah I think this is the tallest they can go wood built. Lots like the Hudson make the most sense for the size, but this lot obviously didn't because if it would make the developer money, they would have went taller. I'm not going to sit here and constantly complain that we're getting a 9 story building with shops, restaurants, and likely 300+ residents. There are a lot of taller buildings in the works, and those will be complimented by the mid size buildings.Quote:
Originally Posted by 401don
There is SO MUCH empty space in downtown Detroit, that I am totally fine with shorter buildings. Even though skyscrapers are cooler, the city needs infill more than it needs towers.
DC might be a good example where the tallest building is only like 300 feet, but it also still a pretty vibrant city [[similar population to Detroit as well, but smaller in area). If Detroit can build tall skyscrapers in Downtown then great, but if that isn't feasible then multiple smaller buildings are fine as well, just fill in those surface parking lots.
Here is the block while the stick built complex was still under construction. Low lying and flat. Now much of downtown is an assortment of buildings of various heights... some 20 stories, others 5 stories... and that's fine. But this building would have been much improved if say the GCP end had a 20 story tower to it... that would have blended with the rest of the view along Washington Blvd., as we see in the first image. But you can't build a 20 story stick built building.
And also... the "armpit" of this building is so large because it also has a swimming pool at ground level. They couldn't put it on top of the building because stick built buildings cannot carry the heavy weight of a swimming pool.
The 2nd image was taken 5 years ago, before the Book complex had any renovation. Notice that the Statler block doesn't have anything peeking thru the trees. Well that image could have been taken yesterday, because the Statler block still doesn't have anything peeking thru the trees.
Yes we are in a pandemic now... but this isn't Detroit 20 years ago... where the "anything is better than nothing" mentality persisted... :[[
Comparing Detroit to D.C. would be like comparing Paris to London or Frankfurt... it's not a fair comparison, since all [[except the Tour Montparnasse) taller buildings are on the fringes of Paris.Quote:
Originally Posted by ShadowSoarer
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gistok
Everyone agrees that a taller building would have been better, but besides aesthetics, it wouldn't have improved the building much. There would be no increase in street level shops and restaurants, it would have likely increased rent prices, and it would have taken longer to build.
I can agree with much of what you said... but I'm not sure if it would have taken them longer to build... they've been working on that for years... and it is stick built... ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by JonWylie
Lol I wonder if this or "The Boulevard" took longer to build. Both had to be over 3 years.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gistok
Is the Boulevard technically fully finished yet? Seems like on the ground floor about 50% of the ground level is leased, but the other half isn’t quite finished. Did manage to walk by Elton Park and the Corner and it also seems like a large portion of the Corner for the ground level isn’t finished. Elton Park seems worse since there is still dirt on the entire ground level.
I would consider these projects done once the residential portion is done. They still may be waiting on tenants to lease the ground floor for a while.Quote:
Originally Posted by ShadowSoarer
Dirt on the ground? huh? What are you talking about? There are multiple buildings that were built as part of Elton Park.Quote:
Originally Posted by ShadowSoarer
If you walk by the Robertson and Trumbull buildings [[forgot which ones), if you look through the windows on the ground floor you will notice that there are no interiors or even floors just dirt inside despite the buildings looking finished.Quote:
Originally Posted by Satiricalivory
It's likely because they don't know the tenant yet and for plumbing purposes, they don't want to make any decisions without the tenant. Like if a coffee shop moved in, they would need bathroom plumbing as well as barista plumbing, but if a store moved in, they would probably only need plumbing for the bathroom. It's pretty standard in buildings without tenants if it's a new build. You'll see it in the Greektown parking garage first floor retail too.Quote:
Originally Posted by ShadowSoarer
I see thanks for the clarification. Hopefully they can find a tenant soon, but risky time for retailers.Quote:
Originally Posted by JonWylie
Yes... the Opera House Garage was the same way... the entire garage was finished... and yet the Broadway Ave. commercial space had dirt floors...
It seems like this project has been 95% complete for the last couple months but hasn't appeared to progress past that. Does anyone know why this project seems like it is stuck?
I don't have any inside info but it seems similar to The Griffin in Royal Oak, where COVID slowed it down a little last year, and a lot of the work is now on the inside which is slower and less visible.Quote:
Originally Posted by JTburner
Quote:
Originally Posted by JTburner
The Statler Bistro which is a restaurant on the first floor of the City Club Apartments was initially expecting to open in Jan 2021 based on some articles in Sept. 2020.
This is a little bit more of a recent article [[about 3 weeks ago), but the Statler Bistro is anticipating on opening Spring 2021. So hopefully we'll see the City Club Apartments finish in the coming months; we'll see though.
https://www.freep.com/story/entertai...ub/4671427001/
Probably because they’re working on the interiors which is obviously less visible to those outside the building. There’s workers there everyday. It’s definitely not “stuck”.Quote:
Originally Posted by JTburner
You gotta recognize, though, the extraordinarily slow pace with which this project has progressed. This building has been under construction for several years now, and didn't even require initial demolition. No way a properly managed 5-story wood-frame building should take this long.Quote:
Originally Posted by NSortzi
Contractors weren't able to get enough labor before Covid, now with expanded unemployment benefits even more "working class" people have left the labor force. Why go to work 50 hours per week for $3,000/month when the government will pay you just as much to sit around all day?
My home is constantly in a state of renovation and every contractor I've spoken to recently tells me the same story.
^ Unemployment eventually runs out. And most contracting jobs pay pretty well. Some are just not thinking about the future. Apparently.
It's pretty much done and about to open, I think it already is open actually.
It has taken insanely long every step of the way, like this was announced in 2013. It doesn't make any sense why this was the slowest project ever in Detroit history.
Exactly, that's the killer part for me. It took almost a decade in making, to finish product now. On top of falling short of building mass, aesthetic, planning and design.Quote:
Originally Posted by Satiricalivory
In my opinion, two thumbs down on this development. But, wish nothing but the best, hope it succeed.
I don't remember the whole story, but a few years back Village Green, the company that originally was developing the Statler block, it split into 2 entities, supposedly because Jonathan Holtzman, of the family that founded the firm over a century ago, was super difficult to get along with, and others in the company wanted to go their own way.
There's a Crain's article on this, but I can't get past the paywall anymore to refresh my memory...
https://www.crainsdetroit.com/articl...-village-green
Here's a lawsuit that Jonathan Holtzman filed against his former business partners... not very amicable...
https://casetext.com/case/holtzman-v-vill-green-mgmt-co
Not sure how much all of this drama slowed down the building of City Club Apartments, but i'm sure it all didn't help.
Whole I have not been involved with this development, I worked at Village Green [[VG) for many years and managed properties for VG/Holtzman. VG itself doesn't own/hasn't owned any properties as they are simply the management company that Holtzman had an interest in and was the CEO for. Holtzman also had an ownership share in many of the assets that VG managed. The original plan was for this development to be managed by VG under their "City" brand.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gistok
Due to many reasons and changes in ownership of VG Management, Holtzman left VG as CEO. After he left, he retained ownership in many of the entities that VG continued to manage. He then decided to start his own management company, City Club which would naturally manage all of his assets where he had an ownership share. Therefore he terminated the management contract with VG and anything that was once a VG apartment community was renamed Village Club. All of the former VG City brand buildings became City Club. Hence why this was originally to be named Statler City Apartments and is now City Club Apartments CBD.
I'm glad the name changed; to name this matchstick building as an homage to the grand concrete and steel structure that once stood here would be pretty shitty.Quote:
Originally Posted by cmubryan
Urgh get over this already, every apartment midrise built in the united states is wood frame. There's nothing special about steel and concrete.Quote:
Originally Posted by KnnNike
This building has been discussed as "stick built" for 4 years before you joined the group... [name coined by our late member 3WC who once owned part of the block]. I don't think that will change... :eek:Quote:
Originally Posted by Satiricalivory
Okay pal...you've clearly either never lived in a wood frame apartment or you've never lived in a concrete and steel frame apartment...or both. The different from a noise and quality perspective is night and day.Quote:
Originally Posted by Satiricalivory
Yes, every midrise building is built like this now. And they're all crap that won't be around 50 years from now...
Seems like City Club Apartments CBD is finally open:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XQjHI_s_NVY
Posting this article so we can reference it in the future.
Basically Statler Bistro plans for a fall opening and Premier Pet Supply plans for this summer.
https://rejournals.com/city-club-apa...ntown-detroit/
It bothers me, maybe more than it probably should, that their website makes repeated references to their "sexy" bathrooms. It's odd. And the opposite of sexy. And I don't think they saw all the bathrooms.
It seems like they kind of randomly "decided" it was now open, rather than the traditional opening where the building is complete and operating. The apartments were occupied last fall, and the retail isn't supposed to open for months. They're also doing some final facade installation on the GCP side, so the exterior still isn't 100% complete. Extremely close though. But its like they just decided "alright we're open now" without any real reason for being so.Quote:
Originally Posted by ShadowSoarer
"Open" and "completed" can very much be different things [[but also the same thing). Plenty of buildings can get their occupancy certificates before they are "completed." Many jurisdictions hand out temporary occupancy certificates. Opening before completion is even more common in commercial construction where a company needs the space by a certain date.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Seven&wyo
But Millennials love it.
hey, we millennials can recognize cheap, shoddy construction when we see it. this building smells more like some marketing department's caricature of what they think millennials love after reading too many pundit tweets about avocado toastQuote:
Originally Posted by Danny
bingoQuote:
Originally Posted by kuuma