Photography is not a crime, not even in Royal Oak

I was taking pictures in the old Royal Oak cemetery last evening when I saw a sheet of smoke further down the way. A fire broke out in an office building across the street. Police and fire units were already on the scene and evaluating the situation. There was a lot of smoke but no flames. I stuck around, still in the cemetery, behind the fence, across the street, and was taking pictures. A police officier walked over to me and told me I had to leave. I asked why and he said because there was an 'active fire.' Okay. Since when are we no longer allowed to view and witness such public events? I thought it was interesting that the officer did not tell the people standing off to the side on the street, just watching [[no camera) that they had to leave, but he made a bee-line right to me because I had cameras slung around my neck. Yes, there was a fire. I was across the street, in the cemetery even and clearly in no danger. And I was targeted, as others without cameras were not ordered to leave the scene. Was my safety in danger, or was it the cameras I was using?


Even though, in light of Rodney King, the BART platform killing, and other instances where police have been captured on tape and in photos breaking the law, photography is not against the law.


We better wake up to what's going on behind the scenes.


http://photographyisnotacrime.com/

Maybe the guy wanted to eat his donut in peace.

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Originally Posted by Fulcanelli

I was taking pictures in the old Royal Oak cemetery last evening when I saw a sheet of smoke further down the way. A fire broke out in an office building across the street. Police and fire units were already on the scene and evaluating the situation. There was a lot of smoke but no flames. I stuck around, still in the cemetery, behind the fence, across the street, and was taking pictures. A police officier walked over to me and told me I had to leave. I asked why and he said because there was an 'active fire.' Okay. Since when are we no longer allowed to view and witness such public events? I thought it was interesting that the officer did not tell the people standing off to the side on the street, just watching [[no camera) that they had to leave, but he made a bee-line right to me because I had cameras slung around my neck. Yes, there was a fire. I was across the street, in the cemetery even and clearly in no danger. And I was targeted, as others without cameras were not ordered to leave the scene. Was my safety in danger, or was it the cameras I was using?


Even though, in light of Rodney King, the BART platform killing, and other instances where police have been captured on tape and in photos breaking the law, photography is not against the law.


We better wake up to what's going on behind the scenes.


http://photographyisnotacrime.com/

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I seriously have never heard someone utter the phrase:

"I went to Royal Oak and had a great time"

Honestly, the only time I ever people hear talking about Royal Oak it involves being aggressively targeted by cops, bros, or bro cops.

Just stay away. Nothing good can come of it.

Not to side with the police officer, but this might explain his concern.

From Sunday's Free Press: John Carlisle: Detroit firefighters do duty amid chaos

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It was the middle of the night. The house was being swallowed by flames. Firefighters were rushing inside.

And out of nowhere, a man appeared and stood in front of the burning house on Detroit’s east side, staring at the fire like he was enthralled. Was he the one who started it?

Firefighters say arsonists often return to the scene of their handiwork to admire it. Firefighters have taken photos of the crowds gathered at various blazes, and they later notice that some guy will be at each of them, gazing out from the crowd with that same entranced stare.

“Usually those guys like to watch their work,” said 54-year-old Lt. Tom Holt of Engine Company 58, the first of three engines to arrive at the scene on that Wednesday night in August. “It’s a disease, like kleptomania, alcoholism, whatever. They’re pyromaniacs.”

As if firefighters in this failed city don’t already face enough indignities, on nights like this they sometimes have to stand side by side with the person who might have started the fire they’re risking their lives to extinguish.

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So maybe they should be encouraging more photography to increase the chance of identifying arsonists.

This seems to be happening all over the country. The police are so terrified of people capturing their potential misdeeds on camera that they are criminalizing our rights.

This might be handy:

http://www.krages.com/phoright.htm

I keep a copy in my photo bag. Not that I regularly, nor have ever, taken pictures of cops, but you never know. I like to take pictures of interesting buildings and structures, and I've heard people accosted for that harmless act.

Shoot with a long lens from a distance. If you work in the media, get your chief of staff on the cellphone. Tell the cop you'll be fired if you don't do your job and come back with the pictures. Either way, get some details and formally complain. Nothing will come good from your complaint, probably not even a change in police attitude or behavior, but you can at least make your voice heard.

This reminds me of an incident that I had in December 2006.


I was driving along Fort St after leaving Mexicantown, and was struck by the view of the Ambassador Bridge at night. I pulled over about 300 ft southwest of the bridge to snap a few photos. I never exited the car and was taking the photos from the public street.


As soon as I snapped the photograph, a light was shone into the car, and seconds later, a heavy flashlight was banging near my ear on the driver's window.


The man questioned my motives for the photography.


A rather frightened, early young adult version of me replied, "Because it looked pretty."


He began shouting, "where are you from?"


"Here. Detroit."


"No, you're not. Don't lie to me. Do you think I'm stupid? What country?"


"I'm U.S. American. I was born and raised here."


"If you were American, you'd know you can't take pictures of the bridge. It's private property."


This "nationality" debate lasted for what felt like minutes before he demanded proof.


Well, I didn't drive around with a passport, and this was before I had an enhanced license.


He left with my driver's license and searched my name and information.


Upon his return, I asked what department he was with as I couldn't see any badges from his position of standing and angle.


He said that he with Homeland Security, and that I was being "placed on a watch list for a year."


"Will I have trouble flying?" I asked.


"Well, you'll be watched," said the agent.


During the ordeal, he threatened to confiscate my camera, but never ended up touching it. It turned out that the images did not come out well, anyway.


To this day, without a criminal record or any visible suspicions, I seem to endure extra screening at the airports with invasive pat-downs and being "randomly selected" to go into back rooms.


I believe I mentioned this incident years ago on this forum, and a poster said that Border Patrol does not have the authority to place individuals on watch lists. Honestly, I don't know if he was BPA, ICE or with some other department, but it seems that I have experienced the consequences of whatever was done with my information that night.

What's 'bros, bro cops'? In Royal Oak...?

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Originally Posted by poobert

Honestly, the only time I ever people hear talking about Royal Oak it involves being aggressively targeted by cops, bros, or bro cops.

Just stay away. Nothing good can come of it.

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Cool. I've shot photos of the Ambassador bridge years back yet post 911. Never been hassled but I don't need to be hassled. What about the folks that take photos of it from off the tour boats that cruise the river. Are they gonna start giving those vessels the heave ho pull over fast too?

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Originally Posted by JBMcB

This might be handy:

http://www.krages.com/phoright.htm

I keep a copy in my photo bag. Not that I regularly, nor have ever, taken pictures of cops, but you never know. I like to take pictures of interesting buildings and structures, and I've heard people accosted for that harmless act.

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Originally Posted by Zacha341

What's 'bros, bro cops'? In Royal Oak...?

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I suspect it denotes those too high on their own testosterone and added steroids to actually have any synapse activity beyond their monkey-brain core.

I met one Royal Joke uniformed dickhead one night...and won against him in front of another officer [[who was very cool, but out-ranked by the phallus-face). I know I got lucky, and have only willingly spent maybe TWO nights socializing there in over fifteen years since.

Fuck Royal Joke and those few NAZI-wannabees that make their police force such a known entity to avoid.

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Originally Posted by Zacha341

Cool. I've shot photos of the Ambassador bridge years back yet post 911. Never been hassled but I don't need to be hassled. What about the folks that take photos of it from off the tour boats that cruise the river. Are they gonna start giving those vessels the heave ho pull over fast too?

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Did you miss the articles about the super-duper-fast attack boat they stationed on our peaceful border a year or so ago?! With their infrared goggles, they can spot any modern auto-focus camera a mile away...and catch any boat on the water, strafe 'em if necessary. Those dangerous pleasure-boaters and tourists...

no pictures of the Ambassador bridge allowed... darn..... Google'd it and nothing shows up......

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Originally Posted by poobert

I seriously have never heard someone utter the phrase:

"I went to Royal Oak and had a great time"

Honestly, the only time I ever people hear talking about Royal Oak it involves being aggressively targeted by cops, bros, or bro cops.

Just stay away. Nothing good can come of it.

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Poobert I worry there is no place for you to have fun in the metro area. I have never found any place I have spent the evening out in the metro area to be anything but enjoyable.
I would add that the police also profile you from an economic standpoint. I spend a lot of time taking images[[over 30,000 pics over the last 3 years) all over the metro area and have never been approached by any law enforcement agency, even when I have been taking images of buildings that might be considered sensitive. I am usually dressed in my standard issue Grosse Pointe uniform and the authorities just walk or drive by.

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Originally Posted by youngdetroiter

"If you were American, you'd know you can't take pictures of the bridge. It's private property."

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This is really something!

I've always had a great time in Royal Oak, but I may be better at avoiding trouble than some other posters here.

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Originally Posted by Goose

no pictures of the Ambassador bridge allowed... darn..... Google'd it and nothing shows up......

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Anyone can claim anything they want, doesn't make it so:

http://www.flickr.com/search/?q=ambassador%20bridge

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Originally Posted by JBMcB

Anyone can claim anything they want, doesn't make it so:

http://www.flickr.com/search/?q=ambassador%20bridge

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I think they were being sarcastic.:)

I was in the same cemetery during that fire. I walked up there with my sister and her kids, who were worried that the local Burger King might be burning down. [[It wasn't; the fire was in an office building that may have been vacant.) The cops did not bother us. But then again, we weren't taking pictures.

The agent or officer was bluffing and using intimidation tactics. There's no legal basis for his comments about not taking photos of the bridge. That's one time that I wish I could've recorded the encounter [[but that may have provoked more suspicion). I was really shook up.

Resurrecting an old thread while doing a word search. I find it odd folks mention Nazis in conjunction with Royal Oak, seeing as it was a big draw for the racist skinhead scene in the early '90s [[as was most of the West side-including Brightmore, Redford, and Westland). I'll save that for a thread I've been threatening to put out.
The incident youngdetroiter went through was very similar to something I saw at a Greyhound terminal in Rochester, NY. An Eastern Indian was pulled aside by Homeland Security [[talking and looking like a mustached jerk-bully from Chicago) who proceeded to dig into this poor guy [[the gal from the counter joined in like a trailer park wee-otch) who weekly commutes as a medical student from Rochester and the big Apple. My bus didn't leave until the morning, but I wish I recorded the hours long debacle [[keeping the guy from boarding at least three bus departures in succession), as they made him call professors from the departments he worked with at 2 in the morning. They were rude, intimidating, hostile, and had this guy shaking and in near tears with exasperation. Eventually, he got it all squared and straightened out, but this one guy had to act like a fascist looking to incriminate. It didn't make me feel like I was in a free country. It reminded me clearly of the way Nazis harassed Jews for questioning in the Polish Ghettos in films I've seen. I was truly disgusted.

One Maroun moron does not make something a crime. One dickhead cop does not make all cops bad. One misapplied law does not make law-enforcement bad.

Somewhat related, the complaining after any terrorist incident is always 'why didn't the cops act' when they knew something / saw something. But when they do act, we complain that its profiling, too aggressive, too something.

Shortly after 911, cops were in fact very aggressive about photography of infrastructure. There was a serious concern of scouting for the next target. It was an over-reaction, and it seems to have passed. I did not hear of a single successful conviction. Did anyone ever get jailed overnight? I hope not, but I'd rather have law enforcement be just a little aggressive, rather than sit and eat donuts because they're afraid of that doing anything at all will result in some sort of overly aggressive review of each of their actions done by a liberal university professor.

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Originally Posted by poobert

I seriously have never heard someone utter the phrase:

"I went to Royal Oak and had a great time"

Honestly, the only time I ever people hear talking about Royal Oak it involves being aggressively targeted by cops, bros, or bro cops.

Just stay away. Nothing good can come of it.

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Well I was in Royal Oak last night and had a great time.

You just have to adjust your expectations [[as in keep them extremely low). You're in "SE Michigan," not Chicago, Philadelphia or New York.

Otherwise, stop it with all of the bitching and move already...

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Originally Posted by DetroiterOnTheWestCoast

This seems to be happening all over the country. The police are so terrified of people capturing their potential misdeeds on camera that they are criminalizing our rights.

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^^^Pretty much this...

Basically, it's an abuse of their power

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Originally Posted by Gannon

I suspect it denotes those too high on their own testosterone and added steroids to actually have any synapse activity beyond their monkey-brain core.

I met one Royal Joke uniformed dickhead one night...and won against him in front of another officer [[who was very cool, but out-ranked by the phallus-face). I know I got lucky, and have only willingly spent maybe TWO nights socializing there in over fifteen years since.

Fuck Royal Joke and those few NAZI-wannabees that make their police force such a known entity to avoid.

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No offense to any police officers on here, but police officers have always been hired primarily for their level of athleticism and brute strength, not necessarily their intelligence. It's hardly a big secret...

The only thing the governments and private organizations who hire them are really concerned about as far as "brain activity" is whether or not they're good at obeying marching orders without question. Cops that are "smart" will question and even disobey authority along with their decisions to carry out militarized police actions against non-violent law breakers.

http://thefreethoughtproject.com/cou...se-hire-smart/