Any positive investment happening in this building? [[other than the re-opening of the Caucus Club) What is the vacancy rate? And why didn't Gilbert pick it up when it was available for 6M?
Printable View
Any positive investment happening in this building? [[other than the re-opening of the Caucus Club) What is the vacancy rate? And why didn't Gilbert pick it up when it was available for 6M?
And why can't the owners keep the red ball lit up?Quote:
Originally Posted by David L
Because the Penobscot owner makes Illitch and crew look like saints when it comes to historic preservation and downtown building ownership. About the only thing worse would be if it were owned by Matty, and that is saying something.
I have to look at the unevenly lit setbacks and lack of red ball every night. Makes me mad all the time... The only thing possibly worse is the new light shining up the Stott that's constantly changing color.
They put in a which wich a year back. Athens souvlakis has the best Greek salads.
Who had sold the Penobscott Building to its current owner?
The ball uses really unreliable lighting tubes that are expensive and break often. Seems like LED would be a great solution here, but then again, the owners of this building aren't solutions kind of people.
Triple Properties also owns the Silverdome. Does that give everyone a warm and fuzzy feeling?
Quote:
Originally Posted by dmike76
http://tripleproperties.com/
under construction
Whois registration is private
I believe Penobscot is owned by a Toronto-based outfit. I know someone who handles the leasing for them.
Building has good bones but all kinds of issues with building systems, and is cut up in a million smaller floorplans. Would take huge money to turn this into an "A" building. Downtown rents probably don't support such a renovation.
How did the lighting atop the Penobscot function properly over decades without issue?
And mostly during a time when LED technology was not an option.
Quote:
Originally Posted by EGrant
I imagine the owners maintained it. Kind of obvious, but not for the current owners. A volunteer repaired it in April 2015, but it was out by October.Quote:
Originally Posted by rjlj
http://www.freep.com/story/news/loca...ears/74733042/
Triple Properties has been treading water with the Penobscot Building while it figures out whether to invest or flip. The market has improved significantly since 2012 or so when TP bought the building at a foreclosure sale for something like $5 million.
Renovation of the building [[it's actually 3 buildings) would be expensive. Floor plates are choppy and not conducive to large single tenant uses. There's lots of elevators and staircases. TP has little invested though so there's not too much downside to waiting on the market for a better flip result. In the meantime, the building is kind of languishing and tenant problems are multiplying. The large bank space on the first floor is now empty. HVAC and elevator problems are frequent.
"Alex Loewy, Penobscot account manager with Triple Properties, which manages the building, said he hopes to have the neon orb back to full illumination in the next couple of weeks, and they're researching the LED option. 'It's important,' he said of the orb. 'It's one of the things in Detroit — when you look at all the pictures — you see.'"
Ha ha
Went to a Tigers game last week and noticed almost all the exterior lights are now out. What this piece of trash is doing to the building is a shame.
I had always said and still say "Follow the money" Who in city government at the time had given TP the heads up to buy this property not caring if TO didn't have a plan for the property but to sit on it. 2012 was the same year that the City of Detroit had taken ownership of Lafayette Towers from HUD then flipped the property to Greg Jackson for only $5,000,000 who had done minimal updates to the property
Why is everyone picking on Matty? He's made HUGE investments in Detroit. He's still on track for replacing all the windows at MCS by 2022, perhaps slightly before Elon Musk sends man to Mars.Quote:
Originally Posted by Atticus
Quote:
Originally Posted by stasu1213
On a private sale the city cannot dictate who buys what and for how much.
How is the Riverside Park restoration coming along? Will it be open in time for the White Bass run?Quote:
Originally Posted by 48307
There's nothing really "wrong" with the Penobscot. I'm in there sometimes, and know some folks involved in ownership and leasing. It has a variety of tenants and is in reasonable shape. It isn't like ownership is running a flophouse or something.
Normal, thriving cities have a variety of building types serving a broad array of tenancies. Not every building downtown has to be a cube farm of mortgage-hawking 20-something bros from Shelby.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bham1982
Obviously. But the problem most people have is that the Penobscot is arguably the most visible building downtown aside from the Renaissance Center, with the red flashing ball one of the most iconic aspects of the city. The ball has been out of order for a year or more at this point. The building owners are neglecting the lighting, which makes the skyline look crappy.
Interesting to see that you didn't throw a random Trump comment in with your pseudo-intellectual, pseudo-elite post.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bham1982
Trump is a traitorous, racist, lying, narcissistic, mentally disturbed d-bag with less decorum and self-control than a toddler. Is that sufficiently "pseudo-intellectual" and "pseudo-elite"?Quote:
Originally Posted by Towne Cluber
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bham1982
Actually,I think you have a crush on him and are portraying your anger because he rejected you. There has to be some really deep physiological things going on behind all of that.
Yes, the 90% of the planet that hates Trump must do so for "deep psychological things going on" as opposed to the fact that the most powerful position on the planet was just given to a deranged, p-grabbing idiot.Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bham1982
So are you upset because he likes P instead of D ?
P as in not Penobscot.
90% of the planet is a bit of an imaginative stretch.
Getting back on topic, the owners of the Penobscot has been neglecting the building on the outside. It's very clear to everyone that they aren't interested in keeping up their properties, just look at the Silverdome they've owned for years.
Oh, thanks for reminding us- Trump and his brain-dead deplorables are virulent homophobes too.Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard
Or more likely it's a gross underestimate. Around 20% of Americans voted for him, and his favorability ratings in most first world countries hover around 5%.Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard
Outside of Russia, Syria, Eastern European Neo Nazis and Middle East terrorist camps, it isn't clear who would support a deranged imbecile controlling nukes and threatening global annihilation.
There, there, Bham, Mrs. Clinton will bake cookies for you and all the new immigrants. Later, you can all gather around her PC @ her feet, while she reads you classified documents from her personal e-mail.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bham1982
Attachment 33354
Bham, given your persona and history, it is painfully obvious that your latest act of liberalism and Detroit boosterism is nothing more than a charade. Unfortunately this act provides you an opportunity to take cheap shots at the vast majority of Metro Detroit and Michigan, which look down upon -- while also trying to appear intellectual.
Someone asked above who sold these schmucks this building. Wasn't it those same guys out of NY who pitched that building for the Cadillac Square site a few years ago [[the one that went no where quickly)? I think it was North ____ something or other.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1953
1988 Capstone from Cali bought for $70 million
2002 to 2005 LNR owned Miami
2005 Northern group from NY bought that and the bank $34 million
2005 Northern defaulted so it went back to LNR who the sold for $5 million cash via internet auction to current owner.
Forgot what happened to the bank after the push to demolish,it was always included in the package.
The red ball on the top is lit by neon which is now old system that becomes expensive to fix,if you can even find someone anymore to repair it and unless completely renewed constantly is in need of repairs constantly
I ran 150' of neon and it cost 250 per month in electric alone but did my own repairs on it.
My guess is that it gets converted to LED which is a shame because you just cannot replicate the sexiness of neon.
THE BALL IS LIT! AND IT'S... Pink..?
Yes as I was riding the Q tonight I saw a strange pink glow in the sky and the orb is lit with some kind of pink LED bulbs and there is no strobe to it...
The result of buying home improvement materials @ Dollar Giant.
As Gilbert and others continue to rehab former jewels, the building is feeling like it's falling behind quickly.
Getting back to the Penobscot, anyone know if things are looking better? What is the occupancy rate? Are the orb and exterior lighting working again? Always wondered why Gilbert didn't buy it.
Nope the Penobscot is not looking any better. The owner is probably using it as a cash cow and making little use of it. At least Gilbert renovates the buildings he had purchased.
^ Maybe someone in city government doesn't want the building fixed.... HA! ...just kidding. :o
2 years after Bham1982 made all those nasty comments about Trump... well I hate to say it... he was spot on. Our commander-in-thief... is a lying racist narcissistic nitwit.... :p
Does the Penobscot have one of those mobile signal tower things on it? If so the landlord is collecting a hefty fee for that. I learned recently that if these buildings just south of rotting completely have towers they get paid! Billboards too! There's a 'spectacular size' [[near the largest format in outdoor overhand signage) on the property of a closed liquor store on Clairmount and the Lodge Fwy that has been there for decades.
Pays the owner of the building big money rather the building is in operation, kept up or not. So long as item is on the property.
Quote:
Originally Posted by stasu1213
Well, the orb seems to be in the best shape it's been in in a very long time... completely and consistently lit. As for tenants, I don't know what the occupancy rate is but there are some first rate tenants in the first floor arcade area.Quote:
Originally Posted by David L
The red ball looks great, but all the recessed/tiered lighting at the setbacks is all off except for one light that is green and looks ridiculous. Hopefully the owner is doing something to get it all working again.Quote:
Originally Posted by David L
The Penobscot Building is still scuffling along. Occupancy is probably around 60% and Triple Properties is probably making a little profit because its capital investment upon purchase was so low. Rest assured that the building still has tens of million$ of substantially deferred maintenance. Consistent elevator, plumbing and HVAC problems continue and these issues mostly block TP's constant effort to raise rents to the levels it sees Bedrock getting in its renovated buildings. The Penobscot remains in that purgatory caused by TP's unwillingness to make a serious capital investment in the building which results in its inability to raise rents.
As was the case with so many buildings that were "modernized" in the 1950s... the Penobscot Building had it's entrance lobby split up by floors.
Here is a rare image of the way the building looked when it was first built. Nowhere near as fancy as the Guardian Building, but the original multifloor lobby as built. By the look of it, it's possible that everything still exists behind drop ceilings and covered walls.
I always wondered why the lobby for such an important building is so bland. Thank you for posting this photo. Any idea when the modernization was done?Quote:
Originally Posted by Gistok
That main lobby is still intact as second floor office space. It's closed to the public for the security of the second floor tenant. The basement has tunnels that go beyond the block. The top floors can only be accessed by transferring elevators in a sky lobby, they're mostly abandoned and vacant. The Penobscot is a b**** to clean.
NSortzi... sometimes it becomes very hard to find info on when a change was made to buildings downtown.Quote:
Originally Posted by NSortzi
I accidentally stumbled on when the David Whitney Building had its' external modernization, came across that by accident. In 1959 the Otto Preminger film ANATOMY OF A MURDER [[Jimmy Stewart, Ben Gazarra, Lee Remick) had its' world premier in Detroit at the United Artists Theatre nearby. It was in July, and the characters were in a motorcade that came down Woodward and across Grand Circus Park. In the footage, on the way to the United Artists, you can see scaffolding covering the entirety of the David Whitney Building.
Now mercifully, it's been restored to its' 1915 appearance, a crown jewel by famous American architect Daniel Burnham. Fortunately the 4 story opulent atrium of the 18 story David Whitney was never altered... just restored recently.
That atrium is awesome, and it was beautifully restored.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gistok
If I were going to do a tour of Detroit lobbies, David Whitney would definitely be on it, but probably not the Penobscot.
When you're on the second floor, can you still see features from Gistok's photo?Quote:
Originally Posted by Molly Maide Srv
Yes. The coffered ceiling still exists.Quote:
Originally Posted by archfan
I'm glad to hear the ceiling still exists! Does anyone know if the mural is still there, or any of the other original features? This lobby has always been one of the things I'm most curious about in Detroit's buildings. Knowing that part of it is still there is great. Now I'll just have to wait until the building changes owners and they [[hopefully) restore it.
When I worked for First of America Bank in the 1990’s , a similar mural of Michigan was in the main banking hall of the Penobscot. It was not the one pictured in the original image, I also recall that all the stained woodwork had been painted white to update the space. When FOA was vacating the building, I recall them removing a portion of the paint to show the intact woodwork. Also of note, was all the empty offices on the mezzanine level with the beautiful wood paneling intact. The horrible part was the attempt to update the space. I remember some pretty hideous 70’s era carpet, artwork, and a hodgepodge of low budget office furniture in the space. What a shame. The Friend of the Court occupied the space after FOA left.
Another quirky thing about the Penobscot had to do with the building being built in various phases. On one of the areas in the FOA space, the floor was not level, so there was a small stairway [[3 steps?) in that particular area.
I wonder if one of the earlier buildings should be emptied, [[gasp) torn down and a dedicated parking garage built in it's place
No way. there are way too many flat lots downtown where garages can be built. Many within close proximity to the Penobscot.Quote:
Originally Posted by David L
Not gonna happen... the 1905 original 13 story Penobscot Building....Quote:
Originally Posted by David L
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Penobs...Detroit_MI.jpg
... and 1922 23 story Penobscot Annex....
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Penobs...tAnnex2010.jpg
... should never be torn down. They are both on local and national Historic Registers. Even the historic Silvers Building next door [[2 stories) was rejected as a tear down for Penobscot parking.
This is just a dumb comment. That will not happen and has already been fought and it lost. The building is owned by Gilbert and thankfully is restored.Quote:
Originally Posted by David L
I think that he meant one of the other 2 earlier Penobscot Buildings on the block. The People's State Bank Building of 1902 was already denied permission for demolition for parking, and the Penobscot owner sold it to Gilbert.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zads07
One idea about the People's State Bank Building from about 15 years ago was the idea of putting a 20 story hotel tower on top of the building. Engineers studied the idea, and said that the foundations were so overbuilt that they would be able to support a 20 story tower.
The architect of the original building was Stanford White [[of famous NYC architectural firm McKim Meade & White), and this is his only Michigan commission, besides a mausoleum at Woodlawn cemetery). This building is so sumptuous on the inside, that it would make a very fine Hotel lobby, with ballroom/meeting rooms in the basement level, and other hotel functions on the main floor mezzanine level.
[[P.S. Stanford White was the leading architect of his era, and lead a very flamboyant life... until it was tragically ended when he was publicly assassinated in 1907, for messing with the wrong guy's wife. Google it for an interesting story!)
Don't need to raze another building for a parking structure or parking lot. Improve the transit system especially from suburb to city and more riders will commute downtown via bus. Downtown Detroit was design as the downtown in other major cities at the time. To correlate with the transit system where office and retail employees and others could commute downtown from their neighborhoods by streetcars, railways, taxis, and busses. As far as the Penobscott, the building will not be fully renovated until a more serious person such as Gilbert purchases it and fully utilizes it with offices, restaurants, and retail
Thank you for including the photo. I always wondered why such a important building had such a depressing lobby, seeing that they have the same architect,Writ Rowland, and being built around the same time as the guardian.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gistok
Hopefully the Penobscot can find a owner ,like Dan Gilbert , that can bring the building back to it's original beauty.
The Penobscot Building's lobby is more or less original.
The image of the big room is of the banking hall on the second floor. I think this area has been converted to a conference room, but I'm not sure, and I'm not sure about the extent of any modifications to this room. There were, however, stairs which led straight from the lobby up to the banking hall, and those were removed.
The Penoboscot Building was built as a speculative office building with Guardian Bank as the main tenant, and with a banking hall built for them within the building. What is now the Guardian Building was built for the Union Trust Company, but the banks were growing and merging so quickly at the time once the dust settled Guardian was HQed in the Guardian Building. ...and then the Great Depression happened... :p
Anyone heard about the much talked about observation deck that seemed to disappear in the headlines? The owner is pretty shady...
I went on a tour that included the observation deck many years ago. I don't remember it having anything to prevent people from falling [[or flinging themselves off). The owner would need to build that before he could open up the deck for tourists. He might not make his money back in tour fees.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bradley
Preservation Wayne [[now Preservation Detroit) used to have that as part of their downtown building tours. Now the roof is locked.Quote:
Originally Posted by archfan
https://www.clickondetroit.com/consu...ng-water-mold/
Quote:
The Penobscot Building is one of Detroit’s iconic skyscrapers, but new images from inside show parts of the building are in disarray and could be a danger to workers.
What a mess. I think we all pretty much knew that this was what was going on behind the scenes. Back to the days of 'demolished by neglect' while the owners wait to try to flip the place for maximum dollars [[with minimum investment).Quote:
Originally Posted by Pam
Interesting that that article doesn't actually mention either Triple Group or the Apostolopoulos family who owns it.
Looks like some of the before photos on the Book Tower...
Sad. I worked in the Penobscot Building from 1982 to 1998. My employer Gale Research did a lot to create a very nice working space when we moved into the building in 1982, and they continued to do so as we expanded to additional spaces. But there were always issues with the public spaces, i.e., restrooms and hallways. The company moved out in 1998, so it's been over 20 years. I would not want to see what the Gale space looks like now!
Building is a complete dump and literally dangerous now. If their budget allows, any company should certainly look elsewhere. Really disappointing how the owner has let it fall to its current state.
I worked there from '88 - '91 and went up on the roof one night. This is true, you could definitely just plunge right off the top if you wanted to. And there was no problem getting up there either. I'll give you that it was 30 years ago but it's pretty scary up there.Quote:
Originally Posted by archfan
It really hurts to see what has become of this gem. When I worked there, I was so proud to be part of the hustle and bustle of the business life of that building. Maybe Gilbert can buy this one too.
Things you find when searching for other things. From Free Press, June 28, 1928:
Attachment 39702
Dimmed, never to shine again?
The ball has been lit on many nights this winter. Last saw it on Saturday.Quote:
Originally Posted by EastsideAl
The building is struggling though. The lobbies need better lighting. The large bank branch space in the lobby needs re-activation. Having brown paper taped over the windows for the past two years has not been a good look. The lobby conditions are major obstacle for any major tenant thinking of making a commitment. The elevators have worn out carpet, button panels and beat up walls. The deferred maintenance on the elevators [[the building has at least a couple dozen elevators) might exceed $10 million. The rent is low $20's sq/ft plus electric which isn't outrageous but isn't a bargain either for Class B space. With the building's significant vacancy and middle of the road lease rate likely not producing decent cash flow, there's nothing extra with which to make any capital improvements. The building is stuck in kind of a slow declining purgatory. Triple Properties won't make an investment any time soon. Hope it doesn't deteriorate to the point where the DTE balance prompts a shut-off threat.
The owner is a slumlord just probably sitting on the building for tax exempt purposes. Just let Bedrock gobble this one up then we would see a positive turnaround
While I don't think Triple ever intended to do anything but flip it, the fact that they haven't been able to is another indication the office market is reaching saturation. Ilitch is trying to market office space instead of residential now as well, which isn't helping. Gilbert has enough on his plate. Time for someone else to step up.
Duggan puttin' the heat on APop. Detroiter's delight at code enforcement
The thing I most miss about working downtown was walking to the penobscot to grab a small greek salad with chicken and tasty warm pita from Athens Souvlaki. I once made the mistake of trying their Southfield location for carry-out. Holy Lord was that place sketch. :oQuote:
John Roach, director of media relations for Mayor Mike Duggan, said that there have been 15 tickets issued to the Penobscot Building owner since October totaling $5,015 in fines for things such as not having a certificate of compliance, interior debris, and unsafe and unsanitary conditions. Of that, six tickets totaling $3,300 in fines were issued Monday, he said.