Confusing Left Arrow Traffic Lights ??

OK, in St. Clair Shores Little Mack Ave. is a 5 lane north/south street that crosses 10-13 Mile Rd's.

At 11 and 12 Mile Rd. intersections when thru traffic turns green, there is a solid blinking red light in the left turn traffic lantern. When the thru traffic turns red, the [[solid) left turning blinking red light changes to a green left arrow for about 10 seconds, and switches to a solid yellow light [[2 seconds) and then to a solid red. Easy to understand, and not confusing at all.

But recently at 10 and 13 Mile Rd. interchanges there is a different scenario played out that has caused a lot of noticeable confusion among left turning drivers [[I've seen folks backing up out of the intersection more than a few times). At both intersections at first there is a left green arrow [[20-30 seconds)... then it turns to a quick left yellow arrow [[2 seconds) followed by a quick [[solid) red [[2 seconds)... and then immediately a flashing yellow left arrow [[20-30 seconds). When thru traffic turns red, this yellow left arrow then turns into a solid red light... thus catching some drivers who are already in the turning lane by surprise.

I understand that some of this is due to only north or southbound thru traffic going at different intervals... but this blinking left yellow arrow has caught a lot of drivers off guard... especially when it turns solid red without warning, forcing some folks to back up, or finish their left turn when oncoming traffic has a green light.

Anyone else find these confusing blinking left yellow arrows around the metro area? ... I'd rather deal with a round-about! :confused:

Sounds like a defective signal. Who maintains that one, do you know?

From michigan.gov

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RULES OF THE ROAD Question: I recently encountered a new traffic light with 4 different signals including flashing arrows in red, yellow, and green. What am I supposed to do when the light is flashing a yellow arrow?
Answer: The Michigan Department of Transportation [[MDOT) has recently begun replacing the old flashing red signals for left turn lanes at intersections with a new style of signal that incorporates four lights. This is what MDOT has to say about the new signals. "Those lights are a flashing yellow arrow which permits a left turn when oncoming traffic is clear [[oncoming traffic has a green light), a steady green arrow allows you to turn left, a steady yellow arrow warns that the left-turn signal is about to turn red and you should prepare to stop, and a steady red arrow which requires you to stop. The steady red arrow will be followed by a flashing yellow arrow on the next cycle."
For more information read this brochure on the New Four-Arrow Signal.

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If that's what they're doing, they're trying to cause accidents and will probably be sucecssful. People behind who are familiar with it will be running into the back end of cars that stop because the driver is unfamiliar.

Steady green, flashing red and steady red is all that's needed.

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"Those lights are a flashing yellow arrow which permits a left turn when oncoming traffic is clear [[oncoming traffic has a green light),

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That was always the purpose of the flasing red. STOP and proceed with caution if oncoming traffic is clear.

Well, get used to it. They will all be like that eventually.

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Flashing Yellow Arrow Left-Turn Signal Remember: a flashing yellow arrow = turn with caution.
You may have begun to notice a new style of left-turn signal on Michigan's roads. Placed OVER the left-turn lane at a signalized intersection, this new signal display includes a flashing yellow arrow.
In coming years, this type of signal will replace all flashing red left-turn signals.
How will it work?
In most locations, the flashing yellow arrow will be part of a four-arrow signal. In areas where this is not possible, the bottom of a three-arrow signal will display either the flashing yellow arrow or a steady green arrow.

• Play a demo of how the new signal works. [[Requires Flash plug-in.)
• Download the brochure.

Signal phases:
http://www.michigan.gov/images/mdot/...n_179980_7.gif Red: STOP. http://www.michigan.gov/images/mdot/...2_179982_7.gif Flashing yellow arrow: Left turns permitted. Yield to oncoming traffic and pedestrians. [Oncoming traffic has a green light.] http://www.michigan.gov/images/mdot/...n_179983_7.gif Green arrow: Safe to turn left. [Oncoming traffic must stop.] http://www.michigan.gov/images/mdot/...n_179981_7.gif Steady yellow arrow: The left-turn signal is about to change to red; prepare to stop, or prepare to complete your left turn if you are within the intersection. Why the change?
This change is the result of a national study conducted for the Federal Highway Administration, which demonstrated that the new signals:

• help to prevent crashes
• move more traffic through an intersection
• and provide additional traffic management flexibility.

Why is it a better left-turn signal?

• It's safer. A national study demonstrated that drivers made fewer mistakes with the new signals than with traditional left-turn arrow signals.
• It's more efficient The new signals provide traffic engineers with more options to handle variable traffic volumes.
• It's more consistent. You'll see the same signals in every state because the new signals are being introduced throughout the U.S.

http://www.michigan.gov/mdot/0,1607,...7538--,00.html

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The worst is at 14 and Van Dyke turning south onto Van Dyke from 14. At time, the turn light just blinks red....the tuns solid. The usual set order is...blinking red, then solid green arrow. People creep out during a blinking red and if they cannot turn in time, then it turns solid and you are fucked.

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Originally Posted by Gistok

OK, in St. Clair Shores Little Mack Ave. is a 5 lane north/south street that crosses 10-13 Mile Rd's.

At 11 and 12 Mile Rd. intersections when thru traffic turns green, there is a solid blinking red light in the left turn traffic lantern. When the thru traffic turns red, the [[solid) left turning blinking red light changes to a green left arrow for about 10 seconds, and switches to a solid yellow light [[2 seconds) and then to a solid red. :confused:

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Grand River, up thru Novi and into Wixom there are quite a few of these. Even though people will eventually get used to 'em, they are dangerous. I guess this would be an example of sacrificing safety for efficiency. Happens all the time.

They have one at 11 Mile and Main in Royal Oak. The light is fine, the problem is 75% of Michigan drivers should not be allowed to get behind the wheel of a car.

I spoke to a State Legislature committee about this issue a couple of years ago. Turns out, there are no - nor will there ever be - standardized Left Turn proceedures. State statute gives either the State, County, City, Village or Township control over light timing.

If the road is a County owned road, then the County determines the proceedure, likewise if it is a city or township light, then that controlling body sets the pattern. However, all of those entities bow to the highly regarded Traffic Engineer. It is the Traffic Engineer who tells City or County what to do. The reason the Traffic Enigeer is God? Insurance.

In the Courts, Cities and Counties have been sued over light timing as a caus of accidents. To cover themselves the Cities hire experts. All that is fine, except when two Traffic Engineers disagree about light timing....the result is something like that you have going on is SCS. I'll bet you that you'll find that the Macomb County owns one of the lights, and the City owns the others.

Hence, my guess is that you have a Case of Fueding Traffic Engineers.

Before the arrow light was put in at 9 Mile/Harper, it never seemed like there were car parts in the middle of the road. Since then, it seems like there are more every time I pass by. I've seen several near misses from people turning on the blinking yellow that really shouldn't have.

Just before that intersection for those going north on Harper, there used to be a sign indicating for traffic to stop before a side road. When they changed the signals, they took the sign out. However, half the cars don't realize there is no longer a sign and stop now way before they are supposed to. I wonder how many rear endings there will be before people realize they need to continue to the intersection?

This happened to me once, but I couldn't back up. I ended up in Canada. ;)

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Originally Posted by jcole

From michigan.gov

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Thanks for that, J. I sometimes find I'm not informed concerning the new driving laws. Perhaps I should make it a point to visit that site...

[quote=Meddle;50773]If that's what they're doing, they're trying to cause accidents and will probably be sucecssful. People behind who are familiar with it will be running into the back end of cars that stop because the driver is unfamiliar.

Driving defensively is the key. Allow enough space behind automobiles for quick stops ahead. Hitting from behind is always your fault, no exceptions to my knowledge.

I'm glad to see this explanation. I am still trying to get used to the new ones we have in Southfield, such as 10 Mile and Lahser.

If you don't get into the left turn lane soon enough before the light turns, you don't get a turn on a green arrow. You get a flashing yellow, then red. If you make it on time into the left turn lane, first you get a green arrow, then a flashing yellow, then red.

That was confusing at first, since all the other big intersections in Southfield have advanced green arrows, so you turn before the through traffic can go through. I like those.

I thought I read somewhere that these lights were eventually going to become standard nationwide. Is the benefit that left turners don't have to stop when there's no oncoming traffic, saving time and fuel? That seems similar to the goal of traffic circles and turning right on red.

I encountered one of these at 19 Mile and Hayes. It seemed pretty intuitive to me but others seemed wary of it. They wouldn't pull into the intersection to prepare their turn.

Watch out for people who think the flashing yellow arrow gives them the right of way.

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Originally Posted by Patrick

The worst is at 14 and Van Dyke turning south onto Van Dyke from 14. At time, the turn light just blinks red....the tuns solid. The usual set order is...blinking red, then solid green arrow. People creep out during a blinking red and if they cannot turn in time, then it turns solid and you are fucked.

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Bingo! I haven't been through 14 & Van Dyke in a while, but I have encountered this elsewhere. I think this may have happened to me once turning left onto the beginning of Greenfield Road from 14 Mile. Is this a malfunction?