Another $80 Million Spent Without Batting an Eye

Printable View

January-07-11, 01:53 AM
BrushStart

Another $80 Million Spent Without Batting an Eye

Seeing as there are so many people who like to complain about how our tax money is spent: $80M-Southfield-Freeway-project-to-begin-this-month

Since gas taxes and auto fees only cover 60% of Michigan's road costs, about $32 million of this project will be paid for out of the general tax fund and your property taxes [[[[SUBSIDY ALERT!)). I wouldn't worry too much though, this is really only a drop in the bucket compared to the 2.19 BILLION PER YEAR the State of Michigan spends on maintaining the roads we've got. Happy motoring!
January-07-11, 07:52 AM
JohnnyFreddy

That is something alright.
How about all that 'State Lottery' money that's supposed to go to
Public Schools ?
Mostly what I've seen is closings, overcrowding, Teachers salary decreases, dropped curriculum.........
....including extracurricular activities, such as Marching Bands, Athletics, etc., .....
What's going on?
It looks as if all things important, are being put on the back burner.
Just wait; Now with Republicans taking over Michigan/Washington....
Where in Hell is this going to stop?
President Obama doesn't stand a chance now.
The next two years for our nation, and this term in our State, WE'RE F@#KED!!!
Thanks America. WAKE UP!!!!!!
P.S.
I thought S.P. hated Alaska!!!
Didn't she resign as Governor?
What's with her reality show.
Attention whore apparently.
....Oh, I'm sorry. Did I digress? That's what I do Yo!!!!!!!!!!!!!
January-07-11, 08:02 AM
NorthEndere

WTF?

You guys really need to start composing yourselves better and figuring out exactly what you're mad at, and even just the basics of how government work instead of just flying off into indiscriminate rants and gripes.

Brush, if I were you, I'd contact MDOT first to see exactly how this particular project is being funded before making pronouncements and such. A lot of the time, local matches aren't even required for a particular project. I also assure you with all projects like this, it was planned years in advance on a schedule/calender.

I don't have all of the facts, myself. It's exactly why I'm not going to go flying of the handle without knowing exactly how this is being funded. We need more grown-up conversation, not rash, immature shouting.
January-07-11, 08:43 AM
Lowell

Agreed^^. Infrastructure must be maintained. The longer it is neglected the more it costs and the more people are injured and die. I could understand some howling if we were discussing a new expressway being built, but this is just about keeping a vital business artery, which is in very bad condition, viable and safe.
January-07-11, 09:12 AM
Mikeg

Quote:

Originally Posted by BrushStart

Seeing as there are so many people who like to complain about how our tax money is spent: $80M-Southfield-Freeway-project-to-begin-this-month

Since gas taxes and auto fees only cover 60% of Michigan's road costs, about $32 million of this project will be paid for out of the general tax fund and your property taxes [[[[SUBSIDY ALERT!)). I wouldn't worry too much though, this is really only a drop in the bucket compared to the 2.19 BILLION PER YEAR the State of Michigan spends on maintaining the roads we've got. Happy motoring!

It's simplistic to think of road projects as subsidies that only benefit those who drive personal vehicles. That line of thinking [["Happy Motoring!") seems to be based on the notion that if you cut off spending on road projects then demand for mass transit will soar and the funds can be diverted towards satisfying that demand. The problem is that neither mass transit nor heavy rail can move the goods and materials that "drive" our state's economic engine and therefore that $2 billion/yr. will still be needed to maintain the roads we've got.

It's hardly the fault of those who use the road system and purchase gasoline and diesel fuel that the taxes on their declining* purchases are no longer sufficient to meet the transportation department's needs. [[*thanks to government regulations and government's mismanagement [[micromanagement) of the economy) Our lawmakers apparently realize that simply increasing the state tax on gas and/or diesel fuel won't solve the funding gap and thus make general funds available.

The existing federal/state transportation funding model is heavily dependent on activities that are also anathema to the "no road subsidies" crowd: increased petroleum consumption, increased consumer spending and population growth. They can't have their cake and eat it, too.
January-07-11, 09:19 AM
Gannon

Plus, we already had a discussion about this...I remember being schooled on a few things through it.

The search function is a wonderful thing...
January-07-11, 10:36 AM
BrushStart

Sorry all, it was late and I went a little bit overboard. :o I was just thinking that if the article had been about spending $80mm on light rail, buses or other mass transit, a sea of anti-subsidy comments would have been plastered all over the article. I am not against spending money on roads, just wanted to point on the apparent hypocrisy that most people fail to comprehend. Perhaps I was a little too crass.
January-07-11, 11:28 AM
Detroitnerd

Quote:

Originally Posted by BrushStart

Sorry all, it was late and I went a little bit overboard. :o I was just thinking that if the article had been about spending $80mm on light rail, buses or other mass transit, a sea of anti-subsidy comments would have been plastered all over the article. I am not against spending money on roads, just wanted to point on the apparent hypocrisy that most people fail to comprehend. Perhaps I was a little too crass.

Maybe it just should have been titled "Another $80 Million Spent Without Hysterical Anti-Tax Screaming" ;)
January-07-11, 12:11 PM
DetroitPlanner

Is Brush Channeling Trainman?
http://www.semcog.org/Data/Apps/tran...password=guest
January-07-11, 06:14 PM
NorthEndere

So, because I was so interested in this, I contacted MDOT's Metro Region [[Detroit) Communications department, today, and this is what I got:

This is a federal aid project [[whatever that means, formally), and the breakdown of who funds it is the same as for every project of this type. 80% federal, 17.5% state, and 2.5% city. The 2.5% is further split between Southfield and Detroit. So, if I'm doing this correctly, it means both Southfield and Detroit split in some way $2 million in local costs.

So, no. Detroit is not paying $36 million out of its general fund for this reconstruction. Hope this sheds some additional light on this. A little research never anybody.
January-07-11, 06:39 PM
Gistok

Thanks for the details NorthEnder... Considering this is a State Freeway, and NOT part of the Interstate Highway System.... I really don't think there's anything to complain about...
January-07-11, 07:54 PM
NorthEndere

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gistok

Thanks for the details NorthEnder... Considering this is a State Freeway, and NOT part of the Interstate Highway System.... I really don't think there's anything to complain about...

Yeah, no kidding. I was surprised to find that the federal funding was so high given that Southfield Freeway [[M-39) is a state highway that just so happens to be built to interstate standards. Same with the Lodge and the Davison.
January-08-11, 03:19 PM
Rocko

Be nice if they reconditioned and kept the historic streetlights still lining many areas of the service drive. Of course, it would also be nice if whatever lights they do have along the service drive actually worked, too.
January-08-11, 05:03 PM
BrushStart

The thrust of my original post [[while intended to be somewhat of an overreaction) was not really directed at this project in particular, or how the specific numbers break-down for this relatively small highway project.

Instead, I wanted to convey the big picture of money spent on roads and generally where it comes from. I also wanted to point out that the same people who condemn any spending on mass transit infrastructure as an unacceptable taxpayer subsidy say nothing when similar subsidies are given to road projects. To me, that is hypocritical. The fact remains that roads do not come close to paying for themselves as about 35-40% of their funding comes from other tax sources, such as property taxes. I am in no way attempting to argue that we don't need roads, or even that they shouldn't be subsidized, or that this current project shouldn't be funded. I just wanted to make a point, which it seems most people missed.
January-08-11, 05:18 PM
Parkguy

I just started a thread on the total cost of highway funding. This project is an extension of the work that has already been done south of Ford Road on M-39, and will also replace all of the bridges that are falling apart-- bridges that I have to drive on whether I get on the Southfield or not. They are also used by the transit system!
January-08-11, 10:03 PM
gazhekwe

Don't forget the federal dollars being spent here to stimulate the economy. More people working, more supplies bought, more jobs saved or created for suppliers... Sometimes things are more than one thing. We will have roads and bridges that will last many years, AND we have a lot more people working, and spending, to keep yet more people working.
January-09-11, 12:28 AM
NorthEndere
Quote:

Originally Posted by Rocko

Be nice if they reconditioned and kept the historic streetlights still lining many areas of the service drive.

That would be neat, huh? Maybe, I'll write MDOT back and see what the plan is for the service drives. I know the MDOT page on the project says that they are replacing the freeway lighting, and making it LED lighting; not sure if this also includes the service drives, though, I suspect not. Here's exactly what they are planning to do:
Quote:
Reconstruct 3.25 miles of pavement on M-39 [[Southfield Freeway) between M-10 [[Lodge Freeway) in Southfield and McNichols Road in Detroit;
Replace freeway lighting from M-153 [[Ford Road) to M-10 [[Lodge Freeway) with LED lights;
Replace drainage system on freeway;
Construct a new screen wall between freeway and service drives;
Construct new barrier to correct erosion issue on freeway slopes;
Rehabilitate/replace 24 bridges on M-39 between 8 Mile Road in Detroit and Outer Drive in Allen Park;
Install new grass and native plantings to prevent erosion and improve the appearance of the corridor.
MDOT has been pretty creative as of late with freeway aesthetics. BTW, here is their youtube video for the project that they do, now:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ag3YgALN0AE
January-09-11, 10:26 AM
DetroitPlanner

All roads on the federal-aid system must be built to federal standards. Southfield is on the Federal-Aid System the same way that I-75 is or that Warren Avenue is.

Southfield [[M-39) is still part of the Freeway System as is the Lodge [[M-10). Michigan Avenue and the Reuther are both federal highways, but one is on the artieal system and the other is a freeway. The bottom line is that the state recieves funding from the federal gas tax to be spent only on interstate maintenance or the federal highway system. To not leverage state and local dollars to get the federal ones while allow the system to fall apart is foolish and incredibly wasteful. Especially since the state only has to come up with 1 or 2 dollars for each $10 worth of work it gets.